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  1. #1
    Community Member Bosko61's Avatar
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    Default Acid rain griefing in Mabar

    Acid rain needs to be taken from the list of spells that can be cast in Delera during Mabar. Several casters are using it to grief others and stealing their kills.

    When you are in a raid group the groups of spawns are larger. Some casters like to seek out those groups, but do not join them. Instead, as soon as a large spawn occurs, they immediately cast acid rain.
    Acid rain lasts for several seconds as an AoE. Thus their acid rain is the first to do damage and tag all the undead that spawn.
    This makes it impossible for melees and others to get any drops, as melee first is not able to damage any monster for several seconds, then when they finally can, the acid rain has already tagged the monsters.

    I was in a raid group today. We got haunted by several casters casting acid rain on everything that spawned around us. We moved to another instance. They followed. We moved to another location. They followed. In the end we just decided to stop because of these people.

    So I plea for a removal of acid rain from the allowed spells in Delera's graveyard. A game should not get this annoying.

  2. #2
    Founder & Hero Vordax's Avatar
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    Just tag some undead you still get a chance then. That or run a caster.

    Mabar is just a stupid design overall, dumb public instance and lagtastic and stupid raid setup.

    Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. - Ronald Reagan

  3. #3
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    Removing acid rain casting won't stop such issue because energy burst, meteor swarm, and even delayed blast fireball have the same if not better effect in mabar.

    The shared instance design is just bad. However the devs don't seem to have time to rework the event all over.

    For now, just don't group at all. Solo farming is better.

  4. #4
    Community Member Phaeton_Seraph's Avatar
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    My TRed Artie (lvl 16) doesn't have any long lasting spells that work in Mabar, but she tends to activate more mobs than anyone in any party I'm in or near. Hand of the Tombs, or Blast Rod, Lightning Sphere/Motes, Tact Det...

    She gets more kills than pretty much everyone in her party, except the cleric, but that doesn't mean she gets more drops. The only thing actual kills count for are when you've got a draught running, and I think she barely comes out 200 motes ahead of the price of the draught.

  5. #5
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    I run around casting earthquake on my Druid. I've had more people say thanks for helping CC large groups (1 person) than people complain (0 people).
    Shorlong - Pale Master, Cevon - Druid Archer, Gorgnak - Barbarian, Addanc - Bear Tank, Juristash - Shadar Kai Assassin, Treiah - Morninglord Tempest Ranger, Baylfyre - CC Bard, Deimanus - Bladeforged Melee Arti, Daerian - Healing Cleric Morninglord, Krazig - Pally Tank, Veriste - Shadar Kai Death Knight, Xanapheia - TWF FVS, Helainia - Shadar Kai Henshin-Theif

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  6. #6
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    A better question is, why are you playing a melee in mabar?

  7. #7
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosko61 View Post
    Acid rain needs to be taken from the list of spells that can be cast in Delera during Mabar. Several casters are using it to grief others and stealing their kills.

    When you are in a raid group the groups of spawns are larger. Some casters like to seek out those groups, but do not join them. Instead, as soon as a large spawn occurs, they immediately cast acid rain.
    Acid rain lasts for several seconds as an AoE. Thus their acid rain is the first to do damage and tag all the undead that spawn.
    This makes it impossible for melees and others to get any drops, as melee first is not able to damage any monster for several seconds, then when they finally can, the acid rain has already tagged the monsters.

    I was in a raid group today. We got haunted by several casters casting acid rain on everything that spawned around us. We moved to another instance. They followed. We moved to another location. They followed. In the end we just decided to stop because of these people.

    So I plea for a removal of acid rain from the allowed spells in Delera's graveyard. A game should not get this annoying.
    What?

    Seriously, have you lost your mind? Getting drops is tied to landing hits on the mobs. If several people hit the mob, several people have a drop chance. Acid Rain is evaded on it's first tick in many cases by many mobs. And if you are having trouble hitting the mobs on a melee before Acid Rain kills them, the problem isn't with the caster.

    Delayed Blast Fireball, Meteor Swarm, Energy Burst, Energy Vortex, etc. will one shot a lot of the mobs. Acid Rain kills over it's 6 second duration. So instead of complaining about people who have casters and like to use them in Mabar, step up your game. Get better weapons. Resolve your to hit problem. And most importantly, stop blaming others.
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  8. #8
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    What?

    Seriously, have you lost your mind? Getting drops is tied to landing hits on the mobs. If several people hit the mob, several people have a drop chance. Acid Rain is evaded on it's first tick in many cases by many mobs. And if you are having trouble hitting the mobs on a melee before Acid Rain kills them, the problem isn't with the caster.

    Delayed Blast Fireball, Meteor Swarm, Energy Burst, Energy Vortex, etc. will one shot a lot of the mobs. Acid Rain kills over it's 6 second duration. So instead of complaining about people who have casters and like to use them in Mabar, step up your game. Get better weapons. Resolve your to hit problem. And most importantly, stop blaming others.
    wrong. the OP has a valid point.

    Caster with any AoE: mobs spawn, turn, point click. 10-30 mobs tagged. Good chance for drops whether or not AoE causes the kills.
    Melee without AoEs: mobs spawn, run like hell, tag 1, 2, MAYbe 3. 10-30 mobs all dead. Poor chance for drops due to few mobs tagged before all die.
    Now add a second Caster to the mix. Snowball, meet Hell.

    Yes, it's nice to have Casters helping in group. No, it's not nice to have Casters griefing your farming party.
    Last edited by BOgre; 10-28-2013 at 02:41 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

  9. #9
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    wrong. the OP has a valid point.

    Caster with any AoE: mobs spawn, turn, point click. 10-30 mobs tagged. Good chance for drops whether or not AoE causes the kills.
    Melee without AoEs: mobs spawn, run like hell, tag 1, 2, MAYbe 3. 10-30 mobs all dead. Poor chance for drops due to few mobs tagged before all die.
    Now add a second Caster to the mix. Snowball, meet Hell.

    Yes, it's nice to have Casters helping in group. No, it's not nice to have Casters griefing your farming party.
    Turn, point, click costs sp.
    Striking the mobs gives a chance for loot. Anyone can hit a mob unless they have either serious coordination issues or a poorly built character. Mobs have ac/dodge/incorp too

    I've hit any number of mobs simultaneously when farming with spells from a wand, clicky, cookie, or scroll. Cleave and it's variants hit multiple things simultaneously as well. My Paladin for example gains mats almost twice as fast as my Wizard or Sorc. My Cleric is the king...

    If you hit a mob with any kind of attack that originates from you = welcome to a 1 in 4 drop chance. If you stand around and complain about classes that have AOE built into them you get left to, well... complain.

    Invalid point is still invalid.
    Play smarter.
    Last edited by taurean430; 10-28-2013 at 03:02 AM.
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  10. #10
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    Turn, point, click costs sp.
    Striking the mobs gives a chance for loot. Anyone can hit a mob unless they have either serious coordination issues or a poorly built character. Mobs have ac/dodge/incorp too

    I've hit any number of mobs simultaneously when farming with spells from a wand, clicky, cookie, or scroll. Cleave and it's variants hit multiple things simultaneously as well. My Paladin for example gains mats almost twice as fast as my Wizard or Sorc. My Cleric is the king...

    If you hit a mob with any kind of attack that originates from you = welcome to a 1 in 4 drop chance. If you stand around and complain about classes that have AOE built into them you get left to, well... complain.

    Invalid point is still invalid.
    Play smarter.
    Nothing you are saying addresses the points the OP's (or my) posts make. What does SP have to do with anything? SP almost regens faster than you can spend it... almost. AC/Dodge/Incorp... irrelevant; all combatants are in the same boat there. All things being equal, the caster with large AoE is simply tagging more mobs per second than any melee can compete with. It's not opinion, it's just physics. It takes the caster a few seconds to tag 30 mobs. How quickly can a melee get to the group and tag mobs without wide range AoE's before the rest of the party, or the initial Spell, or a followup Spell, kill the spawn? How many? You're comparing Cleaves to Rain? A melee cleave might tag 3-10 mobs if you're lucky, while the rain is tagging 10-30 in the same time, or less time.

    Comments like "play smarter" and "standing around complaining" are just trollish and mean spirited, and make you come off as a jerk. Try to stick to the facts without slinging mud, yeah?
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

  11. #11
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    Default Cleaving

    I'm running a lvl 12 Monk, standing on the cliffs above the dragon entrance. I doublecleave and useually hit 5-15creeps/cleave. So far i've had no problems getting motes. I am not comparing it to casters, as I only like melee's (: But so far i've not been having any problems with the motes. (I am very tankish, so even if I have to solo it, i'll get the lower level ones in the cleaves then jump away and invis. Got 1500 motes without being close to dieing yet (:

    Not sure if i answered anything, just telling of my experience (:

  12. #12
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    Nothing you are saying addresses the points the OP's (or my) posts make. What does SP have to do with anything? SP almost regens faster than you can spend it... almost. AC/Dodge/Incorp... irrelevant; all combatants are in the same boat there. All things being equal, the caster with large AoE is simply tagging more mobs per second than any melee can compete with. It's not opinion, it's just physics. It takes the caster a few seconds to tag 30 mobs. How quickly can a melee get to the group and tag mobs without wide range AoE's before the rest of the party, or the initial Spell, or a followup Spell, kill the spawn? How many? You're comparing Cleaves to Rain? A melee cleave might tag 3-10 mobs if you're lucky, while the rain is tagging 10-30 in the same time, or less time.

    Comments like "play smarter" and "standing around complaining" are just trollish and mean spirited, and make you come off as a jerk. Try to stick to the facts without slinging mud, yeah?
    If casters are so much better at farming mabar, then play a caster. If all classes were equally good at everything, this game would be boring as hell.

    Even if what you were saying is true (which it probably isn't). Your point = invalid. Play smarter, not dumber.

  13. #13
    Community Member Ykt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    A better question is, why are you playing a melee in mabar?
    Monks with mabar wraps and AoE GMoF tactics works great, also helps CC with knockdown.

  14. #14
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ykt View Post
    Monks with mabar wraps and AoE GMoF tactics works great, also helps CC with knockdown.
    That seems counter to what the OP is saying. Are you sure you are from the same planet?

  15. #15
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    Nothing you are saying addresses the points the OP's (or my) posts make. What does SP have to do with anything? SP almost regens faster than you can spend it... almost. AC/Dodge/Incorp... irrelevant; all combatants are in the same boat there. All things being equal, the caster with large AoE is simply tagging more mobs per second than any melee can compete with. It's not opinion, it's just physics. It takes the caster a few seconds to tag 30 mobs. How quickly can a melee get to the group and tag mobs without wide range AoE's before the rest of the party, or the initial Spell, or a followup Spell, kill the spawn? How many? You're comparing Cleaves to Rain? A melee cleave might tag 3-10 mobs if you're lucky, while the rain is tagging 10-30 in the same time, or less time.

    Comments like "play smarter" and "standing around complaining" are just trollish and mean spirited, and make you come off as a jerk. Try to stick to the facts without slinging mud, yeah?
    It's not a competition. You don't have to kill everything yourself. You only need to make contact with the mobs. As long as you and other complainers keep behaving that way, you will lose out.

    Moronic comparisons don't help the fact that you need to play better. I have melee and casters. My melee do quite well. So do my casters. Since they are not the same, they require different approaches to the event. Attempting to single out casters for being casters wreaks of whiney whine whine. If you are so jealous that casters get AOE spells, then play them during the event. If you are playing melee learn how to do so in terms of the event. Because obviously your special problem generating a complaint isn't really a problem at all. Use strategy beyond run up to something while repeatedly clicking or perhaps holding down the left mouse button. I've already given you some examples to help cure your ineptitude.


    Incidentally, killing entire groups of mobs with an AOE attack doesn't generate any more mats than hitting them with a cleave variant. The problem isn't casters and AOE. The problem is your self centered approach regarding other players in a shared instance using their abilities.

    If having other players using their abilities is that distracting and problematic for you:
    You could change instances.
    You could change tactics.
    You could run one of the supposedly offending classes yourself.
    You could log off.
    Or any other option that floats your boat.

    Fortunately for everyone else and unfortunately for you it's a public instance. Been that way since the start. Get used to it...
    Last edited by taurean430; 10-28-2013 at 04:19 AM. Reason: bah typos
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  16. #16
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    If having other players using their abilities is that distracting and problematic for you:
    You could change instances.
    You could change tactics.
    You could run one of the supposedly offending classes yourself.
    You could log off.
    Or any other option that floats your boat.
    So the only way to deal with the issue is to give in to the griefing or to grief yourself. Great advice.

    P.S. Griefers will follow you across instances BTW.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  17. #17
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    So the only way to deal with the issue is to give in to the griefing or to grief yourself. Great advice.

    P.S. Griefers will follow you across instances BTW.
    Please...

    There is no griefing to begin with if another character uses an ability at their disposal. Having a pale following you targeting every mob you have down to 10% with finger/wail/undeath to death/etc = potiental griefing. Having a Cleric radiant burst in your vicinity isn't. Having a caster cast an AOE at a large group of mobs isn't either. Learning to use accessible character abilities will benefit.

    Seriously, the mechanics of the drop rates were changed to allow everyone making contact with a mob a shot at that 1 in 4 drop chance. Whining because no one is leaving the 'poor' melee guy who isn't playing smart on his/her own within a large group of mobs is beyond silly. I play melee too. I don't have this problem. Others have stated the same. If I'm in the same instance on my caster I'm going to attack those mobs. And if I'm in the same instance on my melee I'm going to attack those mobs.

    It's absolutely moronic to come onto the forums demanding disabling or elmination of the abilities other characters have in an event taking place in a public instance. If it's really that hard (which it isn't because I've done it off and on all weekend), find another spot or instance. But the complainers likely won't do that because they'll have no one to buff, haste, and heal them. Instead will come the ridiculous threads like this one which basically translate to: I can't figure out how to consistently get mats in the event. So Turbine, please disable every offensive ability characters of other classes have.

    The lag issues in Mabar are very threadworthy and Turbine needs to address them. Same for disappearing keys. This though... this is beyond the pale.
    Last edited by taurean430; 10-28-2013 at 04:53 AM.
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  18. #18
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Player X attacks a mob group with a Cleave.

    Player Y attacks the same mob group with Acid Rain.

    Player Z jumps into the same mob group and throws a Radiant Burst.

    All three players get a chance of a mat drop when the mobs die, regardless of who scored the killing blow.

    Whining about *who* killed the mob is really really asinine.
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  19. #19
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    Player X attacks a mob group with a Cleave.

    Player Y attacks the same mob group with Acid Rain.

    Player Z jumps into the same mob group and throws a Radiant Burst.

    All three players get a chance of a mat drop when the mobs die, regardless of who scored the killing blow.

    Whining about *who* killed the mob is really really asinine.
    I think they are whinging about casters being able to *tag* more mobs at a time thus getting more hits on more mobs before they are killed so getting more chances of drops and following big groups around?

    Anyway if I was playing my melee even my 2wf melee I would switch to my best 2hder and cleave great cleave to tag as much as possible, and/or umd a aoe scroll/wand. If its my melee with ips manyshot and other goodies I would try and fit that into my rotation.


    but why are people annoyed at griefing? I thought this type of behaviour would be very very rare now as all the evil doers are still on month vacation from DDO?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosko61 View Post
    Acid rain needs to be taken from the list of spells that can be cast in Delera during Mabar. Several casters are using it to grief others and stealing their kills.

    When you are in a raid group the groups of spawns are larger. Some casters like to seek out those groups, but do not join them. Instead, as soon as a large spawn occurs, they immediately cast acid rain.
    Acid rain lasts for several seconds as an AoE. Thus their acid rain is the first to do damage and tag all the undead that spawn.
    This makes it impossible for melees and others to get any drops, as melee first is not able to damage any monster for several seconds, then when they finally can, the acid rain has already tagged the monsters.

    I was in a raid group today. We got haunted by several casters casting acid rain on everything that spawned around us. We moved to another instance. They followed. We moved to another location. They followed. In the end we just decided to stop because of these people.

    So I plea for a removal of acid rain from the allowed spells in Delera's graveyard. A game should not get this annoying.
    It doesn't matter who hits first, or who kills the mob, so there is no "tagging" or "kill stealing."

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