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  1. #1
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    Default So... ideas about a self-sufficiency build, halfling with dragonmarks, post U19?

    (Well, I was thinking about what I'd like to do with what is currently a bunch of halfling mostly-rogues on various servers in the "second" slot, and... well, I've been here before, the other thread is still around...)

    What I'd like to have is, trap skills, survivability and self-sufficiency (preferably up to soloable), and tactical flexibility (as in able to switch between melee and ranged, preferably).

    Dragonmarks would add a lot of the second one.

    Now, the dragonmarks do get benefits from positive spellpower, right? Ranger gets plenty of that easily with the new enhancements.

    Ranger also has a lot of tactical flexibility and works reasonably well multiclassed with rogue.

    So... how to optimize that? Halflings make good dex-based toons, but is there a way for them to get dex to replace str in Bow Strength that rangers get? I mean, int for crossbows & thrown from mechanic/rog 6, or dex for thrown from halfling tree, but not an elf so...

    Then, metamagics - Emp Heal would be nice to boost the greater dragonmark, and while at it - do metas work for the DWS Lesser Vigor SLA too? Ranger 8 is a lot but... something like ranger 8, rogue 11, fighter 1? Or forgo the Emp Heal and do Ranger 2 (TWF, and Imp Finesse from DWS tree) to 6, Rogue 13 to 17, and... Wizard 1 for, say, Maximize...?



    (Sure, I could also just LR+20 them into Pale Trappers or some such but... doing that with all of them would be boring.)
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post
    Now, the dragonmarks do get benefits from positive spellpower, right?
    Correct; also from metamagics if you can find a way to squeeze them in.
    Halflings make good dex-based toons, but is there a way for them to get dex to replace str in Bow Strength that rangers get?
    If there is, I haven't found it. Seems odd that there wouldn't be anything in AA and/or DWS which would let you sub DEX for STR w/bows.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Correct; also from metamagics if you can find a way to squeeze them in.
    Well, metamagics were covered the other month already...

    I guess these would work the same way for the DWS's Lesser Vigor and MLV, so that'd be some more of those if...

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    If there is, I haven't found it. Seems odd that there wouldn't be anything in AA and/or DWS which would let you sub DEX for STR w/bows.
    Oh well. Figuring 6 or more rogue - or even mostly rogue - for int/dex based, should work just fine for a trapper/locksmith, heh. At that point it's just too bad that you can only conjure/imbue arrows and not bolts... (That is still so, isn't it?)

    How much UMD is a scroll of conjure bolts, anyway? The wiki doesn't seem to say, but I'm fairly sure one of my toons sold such a scroll recently...


    Hm. 7 rogue/12 ranger/1 other for bonus feat - fighter or wizard? Or 13 rog / 6 ranger / 1 other?
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post
    Hm. 7 rogue/12 ranger/1 other for bonus feat - fighter or wizard? Or 13 rog / 6 ranger / 1 other?
    Let's see what feats could be had, the 13 rogue one...

    1 Rog1, Point Blank Shot
    2 Rng1, FE undead (Bow Str)
    3 Rng2, Weapon Finesse (Rapid Shot, TWF)
    4 Rog2, (Evasion)
    5 Rog3,
    6 Rog4, Least Dmark, (Uncanny Dodge)
    7 Wiz, Maximize
    8 Rng3, (Diehard)
    9 Rog5, Sap?
    10 Rng4, (Precise Shot)
    11 Rng5, FE Evil Outsider [or Construct as they're SA resistant?]
    12 Rog6, Imp Crit ranged or pierce? [Or slash?]
    13 Rng6, (ITWF, Manyshot)
    14 Rog7,
    15 Rog8, GTWF (Improved Uncanny Dodge)
    16 Rog9,
    17 Rog10, Slippery Mind?
    18 Rog11, Imp Crit the other one, Improved Precise Shot, or Empower?
    19 Rog12,
    20 Rog13, Improved Evasion?


    ...Does that look sane at all? (And can prerequisites be met such as BAB and...? Is there a better leveling order?)

    Well yes, it does get the "important" abilities sort of late at 13. Oh well, could use throwing weapons until then I guess...

    And no, I don't have any idea what this kind of a build should be doing in epics... never seen those myself and at this rate won't for a while, heh.


    And then, important skills would be search, spot, disable device, open lock, heal, UMD, hide, move silently. Secondary balance, jump, bluff... and at least one will be cross class at every level point, often more than one. So, rogue gets 8 + int mod, meaning... if we start at 15, use one level up and a +2 tome (unopened birthday boxes on several of my halflings) we should have enough?

    (Edit)
    Well, the old builder still works for this part as I'm not taking Spellcraft, heh.
    Starting with str 10, dex 18, con 14, int 15, wis 8, cha 8, and +1 int at level 4 and +2 int tome at 7, the primary skills can be maxed and secondaries get at least something. Rest of level ups into dex, for 22 "base" dex at 20 without tomes. And the feat progression seems to be at least allowed...

    So... does it look like this could work?
    Last edited by mna; 08-22-2013 at 06:44 AM.
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

  5. #5
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    ...and could swap out Weapon Finesse after taking 6 ranger, IF there are enough APs to take Graceful Death from the Tempest tree...? And in that case the melee Imp Crit feat should be slash for scimitars, probably...

    Hm, no easy way to unlock Emp Heal with that level distribution, but regular Empower would be allowed at that point, right?

    Or Dodge.

    Have to work out the enhancements a bit, I guess...
    Last edited by mna; 08-22-2013 at 08:23 AM.
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    If you've got rog 13 / rgr 6 and splashed a caster class w/Cure spells, that would let you add Emp Heal. Maybe a bard splash for lvl 1 buffs and a few bardsongs?

  7. #7
    Community Member threefeetunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post

    So... how to optimize that? Halflings make good dex-based toons, but is there a way for them to get dex to replace str in Bow Strength that rangers get? I mean, int for crossbows & thrown from mechanic/rog 6, or dex for thrown from halfling tree, but not an elf so...
    Ninja monks get dex to hit and damage with piercing and slashing weapons as long as you're centered. I haven't tried it, but that should work with bows due to them being piercing (as long as you get zen archery as well). You would only need a 3 monk splash, and brings with it some nice possibilities like extra sneak attack and various monk goodies like ninja poison, though it limits you to just either shortswords, unarmed in melee, longswords with whirling steel (or even quarterstaffs, and considering you have access to acrobat, that wouldn't be a bad idea either).

    If you're ok with just using shortswords as far as melee is concerned, you could even skip weapon finesse. Maybe try something like 11/6/3 rogue/ranger/monk?
    Last edited by threefeetunder; 08-22-2013 at 12:55 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by threefeetunder View Post
    Ninja monks get dex to hit and damage with piercing and slashing weapons as long as you're centered. I haven't tried it, but that should work with bows due to them being piercing (as long as you get zen archery as well). You would only need a 3 monk splash, and brings with it some nice possibilities like extra sneak attack and various monk goodies like ninja poison, though it limits you to just either shortswords or unarmed in melee.

    If you're ok with just using shortswords as far as melee is concernerd, you could even skip weapon finesse. Maybe try something like 11/6/3 rogue/ranger/monk?
    it works

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    If you've got rog 13 / rgr 6 and splashed a caster class w/Cure spells, that would let you add Emp Heal. Maybe a bard splash for lvl 1 buffs and a few bardsongs?
    Yes, that is of course an option, although I'd prefer to have that bonus feat too, so...

    Surely clerics still can't take Emp Heal as their level 1 "class feat" in the new system?
    (And perform for fascinate to work properly is one primary skill too many.)

    Oh well, have to do a plan for 12 ranger too, and maybe a third one as well before I decide anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by threefeetunder View Post
    Ninja monks get dex to hit and damage with piercing and slashing weapons as long as you're centered. I haven't tried it, but that should work with bows due to them being piercing (as long as you get zen archery as well). You would only need a 3 monk splash, and brings with it some nice possibilities like extra sneak attack and various monk goodies like ninja poison, though it limits you to just either shortswords or unarmed in melee.

    If you're ok with just using shortswords as far as melee is concernerd, you could even skip weapon finesse. Maybe try something like 11/6/3 rogue/ranger/monk?
    If I had monk I could try that, yes. I still have a few more packs (and EDs) in the planned queue before more classes/races.
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  10. #10
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post
    Surely clerics still can't take Emp Heal as their level 1 "class feat" in the new system?
    It's not a class feat; anyone who can cast Cure spells can take Emp Heal.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    It's not a class feat; anyone who can cast Cure spells can take Emp Heal.
    Well yes, everyone except the dragonmarked halfling... if this were pen and paper, I'd argue with the DM that I should be able to do that ;-)

    I just mean, clerics supposedly get to pick a class feat now at level 1 that they previously could not, but I'm fairly sure this one isn't on that list.



    Oh well, let's see if there's anything to be had from these... build plans without enhancements, just in case anyone has suggestions...

    First, the mostly-rogue one, 13 rog / 6 ranger / 1 wizard:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male
    (13 Rogue \ 6 Ranger \ 1 Wizard) 
    Hit Points: 190
    Spell Points: 220 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 12
    Reflex: 20
    Will: 8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             10                    10
    Dexterity            18                    22
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence         15                    18
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma              8                     8
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               4                    16
    Bluff                -1                    12
    Concentration         2                     2
    Diplomacy            -1                    -1
    Disable Device        6                    27
    Haggle               -1                    -1
    Heal                  1                    24
    Hide                  8                    33
    Intimidate           -1                    -1
    Jump                  4                    12
    Listen               -1                     1
    Move Silently         8                    31
    Open Lock             8                    29
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair                2                     4
    Search                6                    27
    Spot                  3                    22
    Swim                  0                     3
    Tumble                8                    10
    Use Magic Device      3                    22
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: INT
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing
    
    
    Level 7 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Sap
    
    
    Level 10 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    Second, 12 ranger / 7 rogue / 1 wizard:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Halfling Male
    (7 Rogue \ 12 Ranger \ 1 Wizard) 
    Hit Points: 202
    Spell Points: 310 
    BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
    Fortitude: 13
    Reflex: 20
    Will: 8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             10                    10
    Dexterity            18                    22
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence         15                    18
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma              8                     8
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               7                    13
    Bluff                 3                     6
    Concentration         2                     2
    Diplomacy            -1                    -1
    Disable Device        6                    27
    Haggle               -1                    -1
    Heal                 -1                    24
    Hide                  8                    33
    Intimidate           -1                    -1
    Jump                  4                     7
    Listen               -1                     1
    Move Silently         8                    31
    Open Lock             8                    29
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair                2                     4
    Search                6                    27
    Spot                  3                    22
    Swim                  0                     0
    Tumble                5                     7
    Use Magic Device      3                    22
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: INT
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing
    
    
    Level 7 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    
    
    Level 9 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
    Feat: (Selected) Sap
    
    
    Level 10 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 15 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 16 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 18 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 19 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skills are a bit tight in the latter and stat-to-damage for ranged comes fairly late, but it does get Empower Healing Spell. Doesn't get Slippery Mind though and will saves could be better...

    And I think in both cases if it's feasible to use the Graceful Death enhancement from Tempest, I'd replace Weapon Finesse with Dodge after that point - or is there a better way?




    Now, let's see if we can cook up something different for a third alternative, maybe something with paladin levels and/or go with thrown for the ranged option or...
    Last edited by mna; 08-22-2013 at 03:26 PM.
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

  12. #12
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    Duh.

    Just realized that on a halfling there's no end benefit from starting dex 18/int 15, compared to dex 17/int 16. They're both in the 2-for-1 range anyway.

    Should just start int 16 and put all level ups into dex, I guess... then again dex 17 int 15 would allow either str 12 or cha/wis 10, for l20 "base" dex of 21 without tomes... how much do I need at that point again?
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  13. #13
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    Enhancement planning time.

    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post

    First, the mostly-rogue one, 13 rog / 6 ranger / 1 wizard: ....


    ... if it's feasible to use the Graceful Death enhancement from Tempest, I'd replace Weapon Finesse with Dodge after that point - or is there a better way?
    Now, am I counting this right?

    Deepwood Stalker 32 ap:

    1 Far Shot 1 ap
    3 Increased Empathy 3*1 ap
    2 Versatile Empathy 2*1 ap
    1 Sneak Attack 1 ap
    ?1 Improved Weapon Finesse 1 ap // drop when we take Graceful Death and replace Finesse with Dodge
    1 Called Shot 1 ap
    2 Aimed Shot 2 ap

    4 Empathic Healing 2*2 ap
    6 Stealthy 3*2 ap

    2 Leg Shot 2 ap
    6 Faster Sneaking 3*2 ap
    2 Skill boost 1*2 ap

    2 Head Shot 2 ap

    = 32 ap so far

    Tempest 11 ap:
    1 Shield of Whirling Steel 1 ap
    2 Whirling Blades 2 ap
    2 Improved Reaction 2*1 ap
    1 Tempest 1 ap
    1 Improved Reaction 1*1 ap
    2 Improved Parry/Dodge 2*1 / 1*2 ap

    1 Graceful Death 1 ap

    = 43 ap so far

    Halfling 13 ap:

    1 Halfling Luck 1 1 ap
    3 Dragonmark Focus 3*1 ap
    3 Halfling Cunning 3*1 ap
    2 Lesser Dragonmarks 2 ap
    2 Halfling Dexterity 1 2 ap

    2 Greater Dragonmarks 2 ap

    Wizard 1 ap:

    1 Archmage, SLA: Invisibility

    = 57 ap so far

    Mechanic 23 ap:

    1 Arbalester 1 ap
    3 Mechanics 3*1 ap
    3 Awareness 3*1 ap
    2 Crossbow Training 1 2 ap
    1 Tanglefoot 1 ap

    1 Targeting Sights 1 ap
    2 Crossbow Training 2 2 ap
    2 Crossbow Training 3 2 ap
    3 UMD 3*1 ap
    2 +1 int/dex 2 ap

    1 Improved Detection 1 ap
    2 Crossbow Training 4 2 ap

    == 80 ap total.


    Now, it would at first glance save net 2 ap to take Faster Sneaking from the Acrobat tree (1 to unlock and 1 each), but then we'd have to find something else to fill the prerequisites for Head Shot... and I'd sort of like to fit Lacerating Shots as well...


    Sort of slightly worries me about disengaging, I didn't plan on skill points into Concentration to be able to cast Obscuring Mist mid-melee but... does that kind of thin even work in this game? (I thought it should at least with the new stealth system?)
    Last edited by mna; 08-23-2013 at 06:32 AM.
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

  14. #14
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    Well, I've been trying to think up a second class selection to use, such as rogue/bard (11 rogue/8 bard/1 fighter) or something with paladin levels...

    I just don't see how I could get "full" sneak, trap and lock skills with those, unless I go all int-based and/or have several more build points (or tomes) to use.

    Sure, if I just keep the self-sufficiency requirement and drop the sneak aspect, I can do a whole bunch of stuff but...
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

  15. #15
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    And then there's this variant of the 13 rogue / 6ranger / 1 other, 1 feat less total and no invis SLA but, given that we'd then have the 6 ranger to start EDs with Primal Avatar, and Emp Heal does help Rejuvenation Cocoon... and now we do get Emp Heal.

    Also, if I could find 3 ap more to spare, I'd add Divine Cleansing to be able to get rid of paralysis, petrification &c, but...

    And alignment would for me end up whatever I LR+20 this from, but I guess that won't matter much? (Other than True Neutral having a slight edge?)

    Then there's what we'd swap Finesse into. Dodge, Combat Expertise, Precision?


    Opinions? Improvement suggestions? ... Please?

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male
    (13 Rogue \ 6 Ranger \ 1 Cleric) 
    Hit Points: 194
    Spell Points: 180 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 14
    Reflex: 20
    Will: 8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             10                    10
    Dexterity            17                    22
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence         16                    18
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma              8                     8
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               3                     9
    Bluff                 3                    22
    Concentration         2                     2
    Diplomacy            -1                    -1
    Disable Device        7                    27
    Haggle               -1                    -1
    Heal                  1                    27
    Hide                  7                    33
    Intimidate           -1                    -1
    Jump                  4                    12
    Listen               -1                     1
    Move Silently         7                    31
    Open Lock             7                    29
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair                3                     4
    Search                7                    27
    Spot                  3                    22
    Swim                  0                     3
    Tumble                7                    10
    Use Magic Device      3                    22
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Bluff (+4)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Heal (+2)
    Skill: Hide (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Move Silently (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Skill: Heal (+3)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Open Lock (+2)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+2)
    Skill: Jump (+2)
    Skill: Move Silently (+2)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+3)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing
    
    
    Level 7 (Cleric)
    Skill: Heal (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Heal (+4)
    Skill: Move Silently (+2)
    Skill: Search (+2)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+3)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 10 (Ranger)
    Skill: Heal (+2)
    Skill: Hide (+3)
    Skill: Jump (+2)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+2)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Swim (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+2)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Skill: Bluff (+3)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Swim (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Swim (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Skill: Bluff (+3)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Skill: Bluff (+3)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    Enhancements:

    Deepwood Stalker 32 ap:

    1 Far Shot 1 ap
    3 Increased Empathy 3*1 ap
    2 Versatile Empathy 2*1 ap
    1 Sneak Attack 1 ap
    (1 Improved Weapon Finesse 1 ap // drop when we take Graceful Death and replace Finesse with... something. Dodge, Precision, ...?)
    1 Called Shot 1 ap
    2 Aimed Shot 2 ap

    4 Empathic Healing 2*2 ap // Lesser Vigor SLA
    6 Stealthy 3*2 ap

    2 Leg Shot 2 ap
    6 Faster Sneaking 3*2 ap
    2 Skill boost 1*2 ap

    2 Head Shot 2 ap


    Tempest 11 ap:

    1 Shield of Whirling Steel 1 ap
    2 Whirling Blades 2 ap
    2 Improved Reaction 2*1 ap
    1 Tempest 1 ap
    1 Improved Reaction 1*1 ap
    2 Improved Parry/Dodge 2*1 / 1*2 ap

    1 Graceful Death 1 ap // should allow dex to-hit AND to-dam in melee without Finesse


    Halfling 12 ap:

    1 Halfling Luck 1 1 ap
    3 Dragonmark Focus 3*1 ap
    2 Halfling Cunning 2*1 ap
    2 Lesser Dragonmarks 2 ap
    2 Halfling Dexterity 1 2 ap

    2 Greater Dragonmarks 2 ap

    Cleric 4 ap:

    1 Radiant Servant
    3 Wand/Scroll Mastery 3*1 ap


    Mechanic 21 ap:

    1 Arbalester 1 ap
    3 Mechanics 3*1 ap
    3 Awareness 3*1 ap
    2 Crossbow Training 1 2 ap
    1 Tanglefoot 1 ap

    1 Targeting Sights 1 ap
    2 Crossbow Training 2 2 ap
    2 Crossbow Training 3 2 ap
    3 UMD 3*1 ap
    2 +1 int/dex 2 ap

    1 Improved Detection 1 ap

    == 80 ap total.
    Last edited by mna; 08-26-2013 at 06:47 AM.
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post
    And then there's this variant of the 13 rogue / 6ranger / 1 other, 1 feat less total and no invis SLA but, given that we'd then have the 6 ranger to start EDs with Primal Avatar, and Emp Heal does help Rejuvenation Cocoon... and now we do get Emp Heal.
    Also, I suppose it's technically possible to start this without any tomes at all. That does require starting with str 7 or less, though, which isn't all that newbie-friendly, and also having lower dex. (7/15/14/18/8/8 - even gets a few more skill points total.)

    Alternatively, I suppose 7/17/14/17/8/8 with the first stat point into INT...
    Last edited by mna; 09-03-2013 at 01:42 AM.
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

  17. #17
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    Still pondering on the "1 other" class level in the 13/6/1 split.

    Taking a level of Cleric qualifies for Emp Heal, comes with Magical Training, and with 4 AP gets full W&S mastery. Also qualifies for all healing wands. (And I'm not sure if Divine Cleansing wouldn't be a good idea also.)

    Taking a level of Bard qualifies for Emp Heal, comes with 1 song by itself, and qualifies for... a bunch of wands, both for healing and also for utility on the arcane side. But any other fun stuff requires spending APs.

    Taking a level of Wizard does NOT qualify for Emp Heal but gets one more feat (Maximize), a handy SLA for 1 AP, and all kinds of interesting wands. (Is Displacement available on a wand?) And Magical Training.

    So... when does invisibility stop being useful, anyway?


    Given how tight the enhancements look, I'm fairly sure I won't be going the Bard way in the "Mech/Sniper Medic" build, but it could be a better option in some other variants... (Sneaky mostly-bard would probably be interesting to play too, though.)


    ...I wonder if I really should do one each with the Cleric and Wizard options...
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post
    Taking a level of Cleric qualifies for Emp Heal, comes with Magical Training, and with 4 AP gets full W&S mastery. Also qualifies for all healing wands.
    You'd also be able to add Divine Might.
    (Is Displacement available on a wand?)
    No.
    And Magical Training.
    That you could get from AA Energy of the Wild for 4 APs, so it's not a big deal anymore on rgr builds, IMHO.
    So... when does invisibility stop being useful, anyway?
    When stealth stops being useful.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    You'd also be able to add Divine Might.
    Which would be a lot more useful if I wasn't already pretty far along with plans to 1) go dex-based and 2) leave cha as a dump stat, already. With THIS specific build.

    Half the point was trying to minimize stat dependency, this thing's pretty much down to depending on just dex, con and int for the most part. (Wizard would fit that concept a lot better than cleric, too. Not that a +3 wis item would be hard to find, but anyway.)

    (Magical Training)
    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    That you could get from AA Energy of the Wild for 4 APs, so it's not a big deal anymore on rgr builds, IMHO.
    Well, yes. Especially if I were to go down the AA route anyway.


    However, with my current plan so far, I'm pretty much down to the bare minimum already. What with 12 AP in racial for the greater DM, 11 in Tempest for making do without Finesse, 32 in DWS to get headshot, and 21 in Mechanic for heavy repeater proficiency... leaves 4 to play with.


    I can of course ditch this thing still and do something completely different...


    (Invisibility)
    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    When stealth stops being useful.
    So every mob and stray dog doesn't have See Invisibility even at higher levels? Excellent. Although it occasionally seems like every important target does have it...

    (Oh, and from soloing with a hire, nowadays it occasionally looks like not sneaking at all draws less aggro than trying to sneak and failing... that's new, I think...?)
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

  20. #20
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    So far, I've decided to do one each with the cleric and wizard splash (13/6/1).


    There's still a couple of points where I'm not sure what'd be the better choice, such as the second favored enemy. (Undead for the first one, naturally.) Evil outsiders in general do seem to be vulnerable to sneak attack, after all, so we should get some extra damage in that way... but should I pick them, or construct or maybe elemental there? (Surely not ooze?)


    Also that one feat that gets freed after Ranger 6, and in the wizard variant the second one too. Won't be there for a while (nor with the second FE), but what should I take there? Precision, Combat Expertise, Dodge, or, indeed, Sap? (Or Empower? I'm not sure if I'll qualify for that but...)
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

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