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  1. #361
    Community Member Thoom's Avatar
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    If I built a shuriken thrower focused build and fit in the feats of Dodge and Mobility, which of these 2 are beneficial to a thrower? Shot on the Run or Spring Attack?

  2. #362
    Community Member Firewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdmag View Post
    I will admit that the strength can be an issue during early leveling I did this on a TR with +5 tomes so as I leveled it became less and less of an issue. Without the tomes Im not sure how I would do it, because the strength is just a dump stat. In Epic levels its not much of an issue as you should be able to get to at least 18 or so, and more with tomes. Im sitting at 23 so I dont usually have any problems, but early on it definitely required a close watch on what I was carrying. I would try to get a strength tome if you can to help out. Only real leveling issue I ever had with this build Sometimes I would just leave things in the chests at early levels to keep myself from being uncentered.
    Yes tomes might indeed be an issue on a first life character. I forgot that since the first shuricannon i built was already a 3rd life char. In the early levels carrying capacity and Rays of Enfeeblement can endanger your being centered. Also the fun of the build multiplies with every point of DEX and WIS put into it because of the higher chance to throw additional shuriken with Shuriken Expertise, Ninja II and 10k Stars. And don't forget that on lower levels your starting CON is relatively low so pick up CON and False Life items as early as you can. Maybe even craft yourself some Cannith items with Masterful Craftsmanship so that you can use stat items and False Life items as early as possible.


    @Thoom: Since with a high DEX you usually don't have any issues with missing monsters with attacks Shot on the Run is not really a needed feat to take. If you cannot reach the max Dodge cap on your character otherwise (feats, enhancements, items) then the +2% Dodge from Spring Attack might be the better choice.
    Last edited by Firewall; 04-16-2014 at 01:49 PM.

  3. #363
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    Default Thanks a lot!

    With this build (a little bit modified, I went halfing for self heals) I just solo'd EE lords of dust at level 20!

    Excellent crowd control took me 36 minutes but I had 2 rares. Overall great build thanks firewall!

  4. #364

    Default Epic Shurricannon videos

    Congrats, Yoursuperior! One thing that should be fascinating to others is how relatively low your HP is, going into an EE three levels below your character.

    Completing the demos that a few have asked for in evaluating this build, I've recorded two better videos of a L22 Shuricannon. The first (about 7 minutes) shows it in the raid wilderness of the Subterrane, taking on Garamol, a CR25 skeleton giant, on a farming run for the Icy Raiment (and she got them!). This shows how useful a triple-positive Green Steel star works.

    The second video, about 16 minutes, demonstrates the 'Cannon's crowd control using an Spelltouched star with Improved Paralyzing in the challenge, "Fight to the Finish," entered at L23 difficulty. It's the first time I was able to meet every challenge objective and may have completed all of them if I had 30 more seconds to beat the arena boss.

    Find the post summarizing the Epic 'Cannon with the videos here. The video quality should be much better than the Heroic version.
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more
    (formerly known as Spencerian)

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencerian View Post
    Congrats, Yoursuperior! One thing that should be fascinating to others is how relatively low your HP is, going into an EE three levels below your character.

    Completing the demos that a few have asked for in evaluating this build, I've recorded two better videos of a L22 Shuricannon. The first (about 7 minutes) shows it in the raid wilderness of the Subterrane, taking on Garamol, a CR25 skeleton giant, on a farming run for the Icy Raiment (and she got them!). This shows how useful a triple-positive Green Steel star works.

    The second video, about 16 minutes, demonstrates the 'Cannon's crowd control using an Spelltouched star with Improved Paralyzing in the challenge, "Fight to the Finish," entered at L23 difficulty. It's the first time I was able to meet every challenge objective and may have completed all of them if I had 30 more seconds to beat the arena boss.

    Find the post summarizing the Epic 'Cannon with the videos here. The video quality should be much better than the Heroic version.
    Right now I am sitting at 614 at level 22, I am really a gearless toon since this isn't really one of my main 5 toons. Only thing I have is pdk gauntlets. I will be reaching a solid 800 HP if not more, with me sitting at 150 AC and 60 PRR shouldn't be too much of an issue especially since i'm super fast and ranged.

  6. #366

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoursuperior View Post
    Right now I am sitting at 614 at level 22, I am really a gearless toon since this isn't really one of my main 5 toons. Only thing I have is pdk gauntlets. I will be reaching a solid 800 HP if not more, with me sitting at 150 AC and 60 PRR shouldn't be too much of an issue especially since i'm super fast and ranged.
    I'm barely at 400; I think I moved a point or two with TR1 from CON to DEX. I need to punch in a False Life item to help a bit. I've got PDKs handy but I think I've got gloves on for Dodge. I'll definitely need to improve HP before trying what you impressively accomplished. The EE end-boss will slice half your HP off if you're in the wrong place.
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more
    (formerly known as Spencerian)

  7. #367
    Community Member Aganthor's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot Spencerian! Only level 10 on my shiradicannon and already having blast. Been doing some elite only questing and I'm only on my first life.

    Also, thanks firewall for the build.
    -= Proud member of the MAC guild on Khyber =-
    Aganthor (Completionist (4/13), Human Paladin, L7)
    Alts: Caitlan (Ftr) / Gimlinas (Barb) / Chakmar (Sorc) / Shureyoucan (Monk) / Nessyia (Ranger), Dystran (Cleric), Karkwa (Rogue-Acrobat), Mekkanik (WF FvS), etc.

  8. #368
    Community Member bruener's Avatar
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    Default meh challenges

    Started this build when the thread first came out. loved the idea and even on a first lifer its very doable. the major downside for me on this build is needing to do challenges for top shurikens at later lvls. oh how i hate challenges. for some reason i consider them very boring. its looks like the evening star shurikens have random effects? is that correct? if so thats a major fail. looks like original DT armor all over again if thats the case. the lack of in game shurikens is dismal as well. i have had good luck on the AH finding all the metal ones i needed but have zero crafting exp and zero desire to get it. i have the early version of snowstar so i lucked out there. so the two big downfalls of this build is not the fault of the build but the lack of desire on my part to get into crafting or run challenges. currently at lvl 12 but i have a feeling that soon this build will fall behind from my lack of desire to make better stars.

    over all great idea and lots of fun for a build. leading the kill count on a star thrower is hilarious to me.
    Chances are I posted this reply to your thread and won't be checking back. If you have a comment that you think I must see then a PM would be in order.

  9. #369
    Community Member Caprice's Avatar
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    You are correct: the exact effects on the Challenge shuriken you get are indeed random (within a certain range of effects). I also agree that the Eveningstar challenges can be rather tedious*. "Necessary evil" and all of that I guess. I would recommend keeping an eye out for the "DDO Bonus Days" to feature a Challenge bonus so you don't have to do as many runs.

    This thread & build inspired me to start on Cannith Crafting and it is definitely a slog (as well as the only serious platinum sink I've encountered in the game). However you can shortcut that effort if you can find someone to make Unbound Shards for you. Creating a Shard requires crafting skills but applying a Shard to an item does not, and Unbound Shards are tradeable to other people. So you can give a crafter the necessary ingredients and they can give you the resulting shards, and you can use them yourself without any crafting skill at all. However Unbound Shards take roughly twice the crafting skill level and three times the ingredients as (account-)Bound Shards so a lot fewer people can make them, and the options available are more limited because some bonuses exceed the skill cap (e.g. Holy is 37 for Bound and 73 for Unbound, and Holy Burst is 72 for Bound but cannot be made Unbound). So I would suggest that you might research the effects you want and ingredients you'll need to get those, collect the ingredients and base stars, and ask around for a crafter to help you, and you can avoid most of the pain.


    * Especially the one arena fight which is so miserly with its rewards that I always end up needing to run it several times as often as any other. OTOH I rather like the House C Challenges and wish that Eveningstar felt as varied.
    Sarlona resident (PureMouse, PlushMouse, [& other little mice], Cryosite)
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    "The first thing you need to do when considering a halfling thrower build, is learn how to bend halflings correctly so that they return." - amnota/Trelaf of Thelanis

  10. #370

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    I'm kind of in the opposite position. My heroic challenge farmer has long ago "paid for itself" in terms of how much value I've gotten out of it compared to the effort I put into it, but my epic/eveningstar challenge farmer has yet to offer any tangible value at all. So I look forward to farming up the throwers as a means of justifying the effort I put into that farmer.

    Classic case of a solution looking for a problem. He finally found his problem, woot!

  11. #371

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    Quote Originally Posted by bruener View Post
    Started this build when the thread first came out. loved the idea and even on a first lifer its very doable. the major downside for me on this build is needing to do challenges for top shurikens at later lvls. oh how i hate challenges. for some reason i consider them very boring. its looks like the evening star shurikens have random effects? is that correct? if so thats a major fail. looks like original DT armor all over again if thats the case. the lack of in game shurikens is dismal as well. i have had good luck on the AH finding all the metal ones i needed but have zero crafting exp and zero desire to get it. i have the early version of snowstar so i lucked out there. so the two big downfalls of this build is not the fault of the build but the lack of desire on my part to get into crafting or run challenges. currently at lvl 12 but i have a feeling that soon this build will fall behind from my lack of desire to make better stars.

    over all great idea and lots of fun for a build. leading the kill count on a star thrower is hilarious to me.
    I agree on challenges in general; they can be tedious. But the Eveningstar ones are combat-directed and not "gotta catch-em all" or "scavenger hunt" as the Cannith ones. I still recommend some patience and study for great items for a 'Cannon, such as the Frozen Tunic and the Ring of the Stalker, but the Eveningstar challenges are a best option for better weapons, considering the dearth of stars in the game.
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more
    (formerly known as Spencerian)

  12. #372

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencerian View Post
    But the Eveningstar ones are combat-directed and not "gotta catch-em all" or "scavenger hunt" as the Cannith ones.
    Sunset Ritual is brutally annoying without a good dball caster.

  13. #373

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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Sunset Ritual is brutally annoying without a good dball caster.
    It can be. I know you're far more experienced in challenges in general, especially the Cannith ones. I guess I'm OK on the Eveningstar challenges since they're more of a defender-type. For a ranged character like a 'Cannon, you're often able to pick things off before much (but not all) gets too close.

    Often foregoing spellcasters for crowd control, I often put party members at the three entry points to attract attention to supplement the PDKs there, slowing down their approach and guarding the center. From the highest point where I can see any approaching enemies, I remake their universe with galaxies of throwing stars upside their heads.
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more
    (formerly known as Spencerian)

  14. #374
    Community Member Cardtrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Sunset Ritual is brutally annoying without a good dball caster.
    I'm surprised you say that. This one seemed like the easiest to me. I was running all the Eveningstar challenges a fair bit during the bonus challenge rewards weekend not long ago, and this one one was the least painful -- max stars every time after the first trial run, good material return.

    I was running them on a gimpy warforged melee favored soul, trying to play the odds and pull him a decent L24 greatsword (before eventually realizing it would be a lot better almost all the time and a lot less grindy just to have a tier 1 thunderforged greatsword, especially since the stupid Eveningstar ones don't have slots).

    The nice thing about Sunset Ritual is that the knights and the guy you have to protect are all pretty beefy. I did use my MOTU panther -- I found that the additional protect/distraction he offered in the center was worth a lot more than the additional scaling cost. But I was able to successfully leave the center guys alone for a minute with just my panther to go winging off to the corners in search of ballista parts or to pull the bosses back. Then just fight everything in the center.

    I actually had pretty good luck running in Unyielding Sentinel with Intolerant Blows -- I know it's a bad destiny most of the time, but the increased threat seemed to do a good job of pulling the guys away from the knights and onto me, so I could whack them more and kite them through a blade barrier.

    But honestly, that favored soul was one of the least effective characters I've ever had. (He's doing a lot better now that I got him a thunderforged greatsword and have him running in Divine Crusader.) It feels like if I was able to do it with him, it should be doable on most characters. (By contrast, the same character struggled a lot with the arena challenges -- I could never kill the dragon with him before the challenge ended, and rarely even got the final pre-dragon challenge done before time ran out.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard_Zero View Post
    One day I just wrote "Why Do I Die So Much?" in party chat, and that is how I learned about fortification.

  15. #375
    Community Member bruener's Avatar
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    Default sorry about the derailing

    I dont want to derail this threads subject but it seems to be leaning towards challenges right now anyway, probably my fault due to my earlier post lol...my bad.

    i didnt notice the option to exchange ingredients in evening star like there is in house C. did i miss it or does it not exist? i have quite a bit of ings from helping out guildies and was hoping i could just exchange them rather then run more.
    Chances are I posted this reply to your thread and won't be checking back. If you have a comment that you think I must see then a PM would be in order.

  16. #376

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    Quote Originally Posted by bruener View Post
    I dont want to derail this threads subject but it seems to be leaning towards challenges right now anyway, probably my fault due to my earlier post lol...my bad.

    i didnt notice the option to exchange ingredients in evening star like there is in house C. did i miss it or does it not exist? i have quite a bit of ings from helping out guildies and was hoping i could just exchange them rather then run more.
    No, no...your questions on challenges is a legitimate one since named and slotted stars for better damage is a key issue for a 'Cannon to work, and other challenge gear from Cannith is also key for better support.

    Based on the DDO Wiki info, there is no ingredient exchange process for Eveningstar challenges. Only the vendors may show something but, if so, the wiki hasn't documented it. I'll look at that later with a vendor since I'm due to make more stars soon.

    UPDATE: You can't exchange ingredients, but you can trade in a weapon you no longer want and get back a percentage of your ingredients used to make that weapon or item to use elsewhere. I didn't see other options.
    Last edited by Spencerian; 04-18-2014 at 06:48 PM.
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more
    (formerly known as Spencerian)

  17. #377

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardtrick View Post
    I'm surprised you say that. This one seemed like the easiest to me. I was running all the Eveningstar challenges a fair bit during the bonus challenge rewards weekend not long ago, and this one one was the least painful -- max stars every time after the first trial run, good material return.

    I was running them on a gimpy warforged melee favored soul, trying to play the odds and pull him a decent L24 greatsword (before eventually realizing it would be a lot better almost all the time and a lot less grindy just to have a tier 1 thunderforged greatsword, especially since the stupid Eveningstar ones don't have slots).

    The nice thing about Sunset Ritual is that the knights and the guy you have to protect are all pretty beefy. I did use my MOTU panther -- I found that the additional protect/distraction he offered in the center was worth a lot more than the additional scaling cost. But I was able to successfully leave the center guys alone for a minute with just my panther to go winging off to the corners in search of ballista parts or to pull the bosses back. Then just fight everything in the center.

    I actually had pretty good luck running in Unyielding Sentinel with Intolerant Blows -- I know it's a bad destiny most of the time, but the increased threat seemed to do a good job of pulling the guys away from the knights and onto me, so I could whack them more and kite them through a blade barrier.

    But honestly, that favored soul was one of the least effective characters I've ever had. (He's doing a lot better now that I got him a thunderforged greatsword and have him running in Divine Crusader.) It feels like if I was able to do it with him, it should be doable on most characters. (By contrast, the same character struggled a lot with the arena challenges -- I could never kill the dragon with him before the challenge ended, and rarely even got the final pre-dragon challenge done before time ran out.)
    Using high-Intimidate guys...great idea there. I try to use a Panther as a magnet but they aren't very helpful.

    But you did give me a great idea that 'Cannons should do near the big fight: Use their Diversion hate-magnet dummies. When the werewolf and his friends turn the corner, run down a little ways and activate that thing, drawing EVERYTHING away from the spell ward. I'm about to do this challenge today so I'll let you know how that works. Buys time for the ward, that's for sure, and that dummy can take a LOT of punishment. All the enemies grouped up should also make a 'Cannon's IPS work well in clearing the trash or any hirelings/party with AoEs to carpet-bomb everything.
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more
    (formerly known as Spencerian)

  18. #378
    Community Member Firewall's Avatar
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    @Yoursuperior: Congrats!

    @bruener: No there is no way to trade one ingredient for another in Estar challenges. What some people do not know though: You can trade unwanted shuriken from the lottery back to get some of the ingredients back. If you need help with Cannith crafting maybe this thread will help you: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...or-new-players

    @Spencerian: Thank you for your newest video. I was quite surprised since your stats differ greatly from the ones i have in epic levels but on second thought yours is only a 2nd life toon while mine is now my main character in his 4th life with full tomes and great gear since i guess i'm a semi-power-gamer. I'm still missing the light flares, explosions and damage bonus from Celestia and a Planar Focus set, the attack speed boost from Blinding Speed and the defensive options from the flawless white dragon set (which will also give you +50 more HP to help with your HP problem) but in the videos you are only lvl 22 of course and cannot use the items yet. Still it is a nice show of what a shuricannon can do. Seeing the video i never saw you use Shadow Veil even when monsters were at close range. With the high defenses of the shuricannon you should be able to tank monsters (at least to some extend till you get better gear) and thus make the most out of Improved Precise Shot by always targeting the monster that is furthest away from you and keeping melee mobs in line.

    Being the tank is also the solution to your challenge problem where you (aside from using the dummy) can intimidate the monsters with Ki Shout and the high concentration skill and then kite or tank the mobs to draw them away from essential NPCs. One of the big advantages of the shuricannon versus other thrower builds is that the defenses (and intimidate options) are so good that you can be a tank in most content. That is why i went for high AC and have Ki Shout selected in my enhancement layout.
    Last edited by Firewall; 04-18-2014 at 06:31 PM.

  19. #379

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardtrick View Post
    I'm surprised you say that. This one seemed like the easiest to me. I was running all the Eveningstar challenges a fair bit during the bonus challenge rewards weekend not long ago, and this one one was the least painful -- max stars every time after the first trial run, good material return.
    Could you post a screenshot at the end showing the parts awarded?

  20. #380
    Community Member Cardtrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Could you post a screenshot at the end showing the parts awarded?
    I will, next time I run it. Should be sometime this weekend.

    By the way, the parts per minute are much worse than for the Cannith challenges -- so "good material returns" is a bit relative. But each run of Sunset Ritual was enough for at least a couple of greatswords, which felt reasonable to me. (My ratio seemed to be about 4 arena challenges to 1 Sunset Ritual.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard_Zero View Post
    One day I just wrote "Why Do I Die So Much?" in party chat, and that is how I learned about fortification.

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