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  1. #61
    Community Member Firewall's Avatar
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    @vodoogroves: Not much of a difference. The debuff to doubleshot after using 10k stars was there for some time as far as is know. It just did not show. The debuff lasts for 45 seconds with the start of 10k stars which itself lasts for 30 seconds so you only have 15 seconds in which you have a lesser chance to throw one more shuriken. Since i only have the 10% Doubleshot from the feat because i could not fit more into my gear distribution i don't even notice it really.

    @Spencerian: I'm not sure what minimum level your Freezing Gale Kama's were but i think this weapon proc only dropped at level 20 and above? If that is correct then you might also be able to use the ML20 shortsword "Star of Day" which you get for 15 Cleric Commendations in Eveningstar which has a chance to have Fiery Detonation on one of the two random weapon enchantments. This should work too. Would be nice if anyone could confirm this.

  2. #62
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firewall View Post
    @vodoogroves: Not much of a difference. The debuff to doubleshot after using 10k stars was there for some time as far as is know. It just did not show. The debuff lasts for 45 seconds with the start of 10k stars which itself lasts for 30 seconds so you only have 15 seconds in which you have a lesser chance to throw one more shuriken. Since i only have the 10% Doubleshot from the feat because i could not fit more into my gear distribution i don't even notice it really.
    Nice - so the expertise and monk bonus to throw more shurikens must not be typed as a doubleshot - awesome.

    Working on some shards to finish up shuriken. Need one more lesser then I'll be ready to craft up a pos3+rad2.
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  3. #63
    Community Member Caprice's Avatar
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    This is purely speculative, but...
    FoS's preview notes for U21 include mention of new prefixes and red augments for AoE proc effects. If these work like the earlier AoE proc effects on offhand items, then these could be quite useful for those of us without any of the earlier items. At only 2% proc chance the effect is not that reliable in general, but IPS'ing multiple shuriken tosses into a crowd could be rather nasty. The prefixes will only be available on epic items, but while the augments only drop in epic content they have no ML and instead scale their damage to the existing ML of the item.

    Even if the augments do not work with offhands, The Morning Star does have a red augment slot even on the ML 15 version, which is coincidentally when the Shuricannon build gets IPS. Could be interesting....

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caprice View Post
    This is purely speculative, but...
    FoS's preview notes for U21 include mention of new prefixes and red augments for AoE proc effects. If these work like the earlier AoE proc effects on offhand items, then these could be quite useful for those of us without any of the earlier items. At only 2% proc chance the effect is not that reliable in general, but IPS'ing multiple shuriken tosses into a crowd could be rather nasty. The prefixes will only be available on epic items, but while the augments only drop in epic content they have no ML and instead scale their damage to the existing ML of the item.

    Even if the augments do not work with offhands, The Morning Star does have a red augment slot even on the ML 15 version, which is coincidentally when the Shuricannon build gets IPS. Could be interesting....
    I was just going to ask what off-handed weapon effects do people use in Heroic play (outside of things like Deception) and (outside of Celestia) beyond into Epic.

    Feather's news is promising to S-cannons everywhere. The more damage we can pop through a star, the better.

    A Disruption gem would be nice. More slotted returning shuriken in loot drops would be better.
    Last edited by Spencerian; 11-15-2013 at 01:48 PM. Reason: Clarification
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  5. #65
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    [QUOTE=Spencerian;5170055]I was just going to ask what off-handed weapon effects do people use in Heroic play (outside of things like Deception) and (outside of Celestia) beyond into Epic.

    I'm currently level 16 and I typically use a parry IV item with a slotted vitality 20. If I get an item that replaces these effects, I might use the vengeful fury shortsword from lordsmarch. Not that I drop below 25% hp for the medusa fury but the vengeful(10% chance when getting hit to enter rage) effect is ok combined with madstone boots(think the effects stack).

    Moonhaven

  6. #66
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    Does the ranger PL bonus to ranged damage affect shuriken damage. too?
    We magnetize to our lives what we hold in our thoughts-Anonymous

  7. #67
    Community Member Firewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lerl View Post
    Does the ranger PL bonus to ranged damage affect shuriken damage. too?
    No. As per DDOWiki it only works on ranged weapons and also as per DDOWiki ranged weapons do not include throwing weapons. Also i have seen reports in earlier thrower threads that this does indeed not work. I can't test it myself because my thrower does not have a ranger past life.

  8. #68
    Community Member Firewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencerian View Post
    I was just going to ask what off-handed weapon effects do people use in Heroic play (outside of things like Deception) and (outside of Celestia) beyond into Epic.

    Feather's news is promising to S-cannons everywhere. The more damage we can pop through a star, the better.

    A Disruption gem would be nice. More slotted returning shuriken in loot drops would be better.
    I used a Cannith Crafted Seeker VIII Kama with a red augment slot and Masterful Craftsmanship and then used the Treason shortsword from the reaver raid for Deception, Sneak Attack and Armor Piercing.

    As for Red Augments there is a new one in the new quest Brothers of the Forge which is nice for fighting constructs:

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Itemeconstructor

    Also the Mabar Red Augments are a nice addition to any shuriken with a red slot. I'm not sure if the new weapon effects would be useful for heroic levels since i guess they will only drop on epic items and one proc chance of 2% would only be useful if you don't have a Rebellion or Celestia at those levels.
    Last edited by Firewall; 11-15-2013 at 04:30 PM.

  9. #69
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    Thanks. I was curious.... Sounds like a fun build. I will try it out.
    We magnetize to our lives what we hold in our thoughts-Anonymous

  10. #70
    Community Member Caprice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencerian View Post
    I was just going to ask what off-handed weapon effects do people use in Heroic play (outside of things like Deception) and (outside of Celestia) beyond into Epic.

    Feather's news is promising to S-cannons everywhere. The more damage we can pop through a star, the better.

    A Disruption gem would be nice. More slotted returning shuriken in loot drops would be better.
    Indeed. I check the AH and vendors basically daily looking for returning shuriken and I have never seen a slotted one available at any price or ML. At least I have picked up several made of the special metals to craft into DR breakers someday, if I can ever motivate to start leveling up crafting on my new server.

    If DDO Wiki is accurate, Seeker, Sneak Attack, Deception, and Stunning will all apply from the off hand to thrown attacks with the main hand. Deception seems like the top choice to me but you can get it (or better yet Improved Deception) on other slots.

    My initial thought would be to get Backstabber's Gloves from Crucible as those offer both Sneak Attack and Deception, a Cannith Challenge Ring of the Stalker for Seeker and Manslaying, and then find some sort of Stunning item for my offhand. Unfortunately the options for Stunning are terrible, since it is usually limited to bludgeon weapons and there are no one-handed bludgeons that you can use and stay Centered.

    However, the Cannith raids offer an option. You can get both Stunning +10 (Air tier 1) and the Electric Storm AoE proc (i.e. the Lightning damage equivalent to Freezing Gale, Air tier 3) from a ML 12 Air-type shortsword or kama. That also gives you Alchemical DEX +2 (Air tier 2), which is great for this build. Tier 3 also offers a red augment slot, which you could slot with one of the new augments someday. This is such a great offhand option for this build that I might even get past my own antipathy to raiding to try to make one.

    I think I have a something of Riposte (=Parry) in my offhand currently. I have not found anything more damage-oriented and Saves are usually worth having.

  11. #71
    Community Member Caprice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firewall View Post
    I used a Cannith Crafted Seeker VIII Kama with a red augment slot and Masterful Craftsmanship and then used the Treason shortsword from the reaver raid for Deception, Sneak Attack and Armor Piercing.

    As for Red Augments there is a new one in the new quest Brothers of the Forge which is nice for fighting constructs:

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Itemeconstructor

    Also the Mabar Red Augments are a nice addition to any shuriken with a red slot. I'm not sure if the new weapon effects would be useful for heroic levels since i guess they will only drop on epic items and one proc chance of 2% would only be useful if you don't have a Rebellion or Celestia at those levels.
    Does the Armor Piercing from Treason apply to the throws? If so then that is a unique benefit.

    The new weapon effects are only found on epic items, but the new augments for those effects have no ML. You will have to farm them on an epic character or while doing past lives, but once you have one you could use it for later lives or an alt. A Tier 3 Alchemical Air shortsword with one of the other elemental burst AoEs slotted seems like a rather fun TR enhancer. Of course that is assuming that they make it to the Live game without substantial changes, and that the drop rate is not so abysmal that they remain out of reach.

  12. #72
    Community Member Firewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caprice View Post
    Does the Armor Piercing from Treason apply to the throws? If so then that is a unique benefit.
    Yes it does. It is a passive bonus which is also reflected in the enchantment's description. That's why i like Rebellion too.

    By the way they changed Stunning into Dazing on items so it doesn't mention the 3% passive chance to stun anymore. Instead it lowers the will-saving throw by 1 for 6 seconds. I don't think Dazing works in the Offhand anymore. The DDOWiki is just not updated in that regard.
    Last edited by Firewall; 11-15-2013 at 05:28 PM.

  13. #73
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firewall View Post
    No. As per DDOWiki it only works on ranged weapons and also as per DDOWiki ranged weapons do not include throwing weapons. Also i have seen reports in earlier thrower threads that this does indeed not work. I can't test it myself because my thrower does not have a ranger past life.
    I can confirm it does not.
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  14. #74
    Community Member Caprice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firewall View Post
    Yes it does. It is a passive bonus which is also reflected in the enchantment's description. That's why i like Rebellion too.

    By the way they changed Stunning into Dazing on items so it doesn't mention the 3% passive chance to stun anymore. Instead it lowers the will-saving throw by 1 for 6 seconds. I don't think Dazing works in the Offhand anymore. The DDOWiki is just not updated in that regard.
    Right. Thanks. You saved me from trying to raid. Back to slumming it snail style! :-)

  15. #75
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    Currently have this build to lvl 18, it is a ton of fun, and had a couple of questions:

    1 - Does Arcane Archer set from TOD apply to thrown? I have the set, but have been using Shintao for dmg boost.

    2 - For epic feats what about improved martial arts feat? if it works with shurikens/stacks with combat archery.

  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oetang View Post
    Currently have this build to lvl 18, it is a ton of fun, and had a couple of questions:

    1 - Does Arcane Archer set from TOD apply to thrown? I have the set, but have been using Shintao for dmg boost.

    2 - For epic feats what about improved martial arts feat? if it works with shurikens/stacks with combat archery.
    I've been tripped up on this, too, and Firewall sorted it out for me.

    Ranged Alacrity does not affect thrown weapons, only bows, I'm afraid. So while that feature of Gilvaenor's set bonus does not apply, all other effects do (Exceptional DEX, Attack Bonus).

    Since I haven't made it to Epic, I'll let others answer about the effects of those feats.
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  17. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caprice View Post
    Indeed. I check the AH and vendors basically daily looking for returning shuriken and I have never seen a slotted one available at any price or ML. At least I have picked up several made of the special metals to craft into DR breakers someday, if I can ever motivate to start leveling up crafting on my new server.

    If DDO Wiki is accurate, Seeker, Sneak Attack, Deception, and Stunning will all apply from the off hand to thrown attacks with the main hand. Deception seems like the top choice to me but you can get it (or better yet Improved Deception) on other slots.

    My initial thought would be to get Backstabber's Gloves from Crucible as those offer both Sneak Attack and Deception, a Cannith Challenge Ring of the Stalker for Seeker and Manslaying, and then find some sort of Stunning item for my offhand. Unfortunately the options for Stunning are terrible, since it is usually limited to bludgeon weapons and there are no one-handed bludgeons that you can use and stay Centered.

    However, the Cannith raids offer an option. You can get both Stunning +10 (Air tier 1) and the Electric Storm AoE proc (i.e. the Lightning damage equivalent to Freezing Gale, Air tier 3) from a ML 12 Air-type shortsword or kama. That also gives you Alchemical DEX +2 (Air tier 2), which is great for this build. Tier 3 also offers a red augment slot, which you could slot with one of the new augments someday. This is such a great offhand option for this build that I might even get past my own antipathy to raiding to try to make one.

    I think I have a something of Riposte (=Parry) in my offhand currently. I have not found anything more damage-oriented and Saves are usually worth having.
    Great advice. I had an awesome streak of fortune this weekend with guildies that helped my character to Eveningstar and run sufficient challenges run to obtain my first spelltouched, a +4 Potent that has so many random effects (Paralyzing, Crushing Wave, Elemental Mastery, STR/DEX/CON draining) that it's insanely powerful, even for a L16. And on my very first run through "Friends in Low Places," I scored my L15 Morning Star.

    I used that spelltouched (with LOTS of Ninja Poison) to take down both child and mama dragons in hN "Mired in Kobolds," building up 70 poison DoTs and circle strafing to greatness.

    I'm still using my Seeker VIII of Stealth Strike Kama but I may craft one with Deception now as I move closer to Epics. Might have some Backstabber's Gloves lying about, and I'd love to do more challenges for both the Stalker ring and a Frozen Tunic if guild help permits. The GS Ice II Kama seems like the first of two better bets to craft if getting a Frozen Tunic or Cannith kama is not in the cards (some challenges just aren't relatively easy for me). As with handwraps in unarmed fighting, I see that switching offhand weapons for passive effects combined with the right star yields a LOT of attack diversity.

    I've been searching through the vendors as well for stars that people just throw away, hoping to find something interesting.
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  18. #78
    Community Member Arkadios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oetang View Post
    ...

    2 - For epic feats what about improved martial arts feat? if it works with shurikens/stacks with combat archery.
    I don't know about shuriken but I do know the improved martial arts feat works and stacks with combat archery when wielding a bow. So it certainly should stack but if it does or not, I don't know.
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  19. #79
    Community Member Jamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oetang View Post

    2 - For epic feats what about improved martial arts feat? if it works with shurikens/stacks with combat archery.
    Remember the base damage die for shurikens is extremely small. With the exception of the Shadow Star and Snow Star, all the ones I've seen are 1d2. So improved martial arts will only give you 0.75 damage per hit. Probably better feats out there for a shuriken shucker.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencerian View Post
    Great advice. I had an awesome streak of fortune this weekend with guildies that helped my character to Eveningstar and run sufficient challenges run to obtain my first spelltouched, a +4 Potent that has so many random effects (Paralyzing, Crushing Wave, Elemental Mastery, STR/DEX/CON draining) that it's insanely powerful, even for a L16. And on my very first run through "Friends in Low Places," I scored my L15 Morning Star.

    I used that spelltouched (with LOTS of Ninja Poison) to take down both child and mama dragons in hN "Mired in Kobolds," building up 70 poison DoTs and circle strafing to greatness.

    I'm still using my Seeker VIII of Stealth Strike Kama but I may craft one with Deception now as I move closer to Epics. Might have some Backstabber's Gloves lying about, and I'd love to do more challenges for both the Stalker ring and a Frozen Tunic if guild help permits. The GS Ice II Kama seems like the first of two better bets to craft if getting a Frozen Tunic or Cannith kama is not in the cards (some challenges just aren't relatively easy for me). As with handwraps in unarmed fighting, I see that switching offhand weapons for passive effects combined with the right star yields a LOT of attack diversity.

    I've been searching through the vendors as well for stars that people just throw away, hoping to find something interesting.

    consider http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Golden_Guile for improved deception +10% concealment?

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