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  1. #81
    Community Member Firewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oetang View Post
    Currently have this build to lvl 18, it is a ton of fun, and had a couple of questions:

    1 - Does Arcane Archer set from TOD apply to thrown? I have the set, but have been using Shintao for dmg boost.

    2 - For epic feats what about improved martial arts feat? if it works with shurikens/stacks with combat archery.
    Just as the others said: Ranged Alacrity does not work with throwing weapons and improved martial arts works and stacks but only gives 0.5[W] damage which is a meager 0.75 per hit. In quests where you have an artificer with you don't ask for deadly weapons but for elemental weapons because you will get more damage per hit from it and you can choose the element of expected mob vulnerability if any.
    Shuricannon 2.0 Drow 20 Monk Thrower for DPS, Nethercannon Shadar-Kai 15 Pal/3 Monk/2 Rog Thrower for Past Lifes
    Shiradi Shuricannon Drow 20 Monk Thrower for Defense, Shiradi Warcannon Warforged 11 Wiz/6 Monk/3 Rog Thrower...Throwers for the win

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaneArcher52689 View Post
    consider http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Golden_Guile for improved deception +10% concealment?
    You read my mind. I just put one on the character.
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more
    (formerly known as Spencerian)

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencerian View Post
    You read my mind. I just put one on the character.
    I have one set aside for mine. This has easily become one of my favorite characters. Also, I really enjoy how this build gently pushes me to play smarter as well.

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaneArcher52689 View Post
    I have one set aside for mine. This has easily become one of my favorite characters. Also, I really enjoy how this build gently pushes me to play smarter as well.
    I've always enjoyed stealth, so staying that way builds ki and avoids aggro.

    A good Spot really helps. I destroy mobs from dozens of meters away by back-targeting with Improved Precise Shot. It's scary how a single-weapon thrower can do so much crowd control.

    For the tough guys, I dot 'em with poison and go all do-si-do with strafing. Now that I got Venomed Blades working again, too (had to reset the Drow tree and reselect), that's additional damage going in. That Golden Guile is great at present, and I put on some Tinker's Gloves to boost my Seeker to +10 and add a point of DEX.

    It's just a matter of the right tools for the job now, getting the right star and supporting gear to further its damage.
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more
    (formerly known as Spencerian)

  5. #85
    Community Member Firewall's Avatar
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    A little change of plans: I decided to drop the Precision stance Feat for Toughness.

    First because the Precision Stance was always only a backup stance since i run in Combat Expertise all the time because the benefit of (in my case) +15 AC and +2 saves with bulwark of defense is too great to loose and second because i found that my attack value is over the top so that i dont need the 5% attack bonus from Precision and my damage is not that dependant on sneak attacks that it is worth the +25% Armor Piercing.

    Toughness is a bit of a compensation for the fact that i started with only 14 CON and because Combat Expertise prevents me from being raged.

    Also with the nerf of Life Stealing i found that in EE Improved Paralyzing spelltouched shuriken are the best now since they still have a 5% proc chance which in combination with the high attack speed and improved precise shot hits pretty often.
    Shuricannon 2.0 Drow 20 Monk Thrower for DPS, Nethercannon Shadar-Kai 15 Pal/3 Monk/2 Rog Thrower for Past Lifes
    Shiradi Shuricannon Drow 20 Monk Thrower for Defense, Shiradi Warcannon Warforged 11 Wiz/6 Monk/3 Rog Thrower...Throwers for the win

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firewall View Post
    A little change of plans: I decided to drop the Precision stance Feat for Toughness.

    First because the Precision Stance was always only a backup stance since i run in Combat Expertise all the time because the benefit of (in my case) +15 AC and +2 saves with bulwark of defense is too great to loose and second because i found that my attack value is over the top so that i dont need the 5% attack bonus from Precision and my damage is not that dependant on sneak attacks that it is worth the +25% Armor Piercing.

    Toughness is a bit of a compensation for the fact that i started with only 14 CON and because Combat Expertise prevents me from being raged.

    Also with the nerf of Life Stealing i found that in EE Improved Paralyzing spelltouched shuriken are the best now since they still have a 5% proc chance which in combination with the high attack speed and improved precise shot hits pretty often.
    Makes sense to me. I've not used Precision since I switched on Combat Expertise. I've been worried that my character will roll a 1 on evading something nasty from Harry in a Shroud run, and not having enough HP to survive one shot. Turns out I have a run scheduled, so that's my goal today (once the servers are back up).
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more
    (formerly known as Spencerian)

  7. #87
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    Any chance for a video Firewall? I'm running through ED's on my juggernaut and soon going to TR for this awesomeness. I'll have to get Snowstar and do Eveningstar challenges for other throwing stars. Finally somebody made a proper ninja character for DDO

    Keep up the good work and let us know what changes you are doing!

  8. #88
    Community Member Firewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samsonov View Post
    Any chance for a video Firewall? I'm running through ED's on my juggernaut and soon going to TR for this awesomeness. I'll have to get Snowstar and do Eveningstar challenges for other throwing stars. Finally somebody made a proper ninja character for DDO

    Keep up the good work and let us know what changes you are doing!
    I really love that people are enjoying this build! No chance for a video though since i don't have the means to do it. If anyone else using the build wants to post a video here feel free to do so.

    Another point is that i don't want to show what my character can do in an artificial environment for a video but i want to show the potential of the build.
    I still don't have all the optimal gear for my character and i'm only in my 4th life (cleric, fighter and rogue past lives) so i cannot come up with a completionist feat, 3 monk past lives or anything else fancy that would make the build shine even more and i would feel that the video would maybe understate the potential of the build.

    Also a short video does not show the real potential of a build since some builds have greater burst damage or better situational performance against specific enemies or environments which makes them shine in a short video but maybe not in general questing. I think the best advertisement and my own personal joy comes from people testing my build and posting here that they have a lot of fun with it and sharing their experiences.

    I didn't post it to compete with other builds but only since i have so much fun with it that i wanted to share it with other people. I'm still open for suggestions and improvements though.
    Last edited by Firewall; 11-22-2013 at 06:00 PM.
    Shuricannon 2.0 Drow 20 Monk Thrower for DPS, Nethercannon Shadar-Kai 15 Pal/3 Monk/2 Rog Thrower for Past Lifes
    Shiradi Shuricannon Drow 20 Monk Thrower for Defense, Shiradi Warcannon Warforged 11 Wiz/6 Monk/3 Rog Thrower...Throwers for the win

  9. #89
    The Hatchery serthcore's Avatar
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    Nice build, after seeing it i LR'd my main into a shuriken specced build (ra/rog/monk variant) and looking at your twists i see that you're taking echoes.
    Does the 10% attack speed from echoes of ancestors: shiradi stacks with Whirling Wrists (and other things like haste)?
    Thanks in advance.
    Argo: - Trolls Lair / Intransigence

  10. #90
    Community Member Firewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by serthcore View Post
    Nice build, after seeing it i LR'd my main into a shuriken specced build (ra/rog/monk variant) and looking at your twists i see that you're taking echoes.
    Does the 10% attack speed from echoes of ancestors: shiradi stacks with Whirling Wrists (and other things like haste)?
    Thanks in advance.
    It should but actually i tested it and it is broken and does not give any bonus attack speed. I bug reported it already and as long as it is not fixed i take Echoes of the Ancestors: Shadowdancer which gives a nice +1 DEX, +2 saves vs. traps, 1d6 sneak attack damage and a 5% chance for the Lingering Shadows buff.

    Good catch. I changed it in the OP
    Last edited by Firewall; 11-22-2013 at 10:12 PM.
    Shuricannon 2.0 Drow 20 Monk Thrower for DPS, Nethercannon Shadar-Kai 15 Pal/3 Monk/2 Rog Thrower for Past Lifes
    Shiradi Shuricannon Drow 20 Monk Thrower for Defense, Shiradi Warcannon Warforged 11 Wiz/6 Monk/3 Rog Thrower...Throwers for the win

  11. #91

    Default Thoughts at L22

    Wanted to relate my thoughts for the record, for any that are still considering the build.

    Being a first-life, this character of mine has leveled very rapidly since I made it over 2 weeks ago. I only added in a Voice recently.

    I am still running about in non-epic gear while spanking Drow at extreme range and clobbering Matron Mothers and priestesses with poison damage and those incredible Spelltouched shuriken. As long as I have enough space to run, I gain little damage since my evasion, spell resistance and dodge is so high that close calls from spell casters and fighters rarely hit. I'm only 400 HP and have succeeded well except in one Epic Hard. That's House of Szind: Relig's mobs are a nasty group, filled with undead that are harder to dispatch since he respawns them. I'm playing solo with Albus the L20 FvS and my Onyx Panther, who are both quite durable and well-behaved.

    The first Shroud run with my character was great. My guild ran a Normal with non-epic players. I could pop off the Gnolls in part 5 fast enough and then dish fast damage against Harry quite well with a crafted Shocking Burst silver PG star. A GS star should give more damage. I was never touched. I need to make a better portal beater, however.

    What I love about this character is the sheer power of killing faster at extreme range than with a Ranger AA. Normally a good ranged player knows not to start a fight before the melees gain aggro. In most cases I needn't do this while very far away. Single enemies move to engage but almost always the extreme range doesn't attract others to fight. Often enemies fall long before they are less than halfway close to me. The Golden Guile's Improved Deception and Crippling effects from some abilities slow them down more.

    And then I got a level 20 Spelltouched Improved Paralyzing Icy Burst star with Crushing Wave. That's been a complete game changer with Improved Precise Shot active. Stopping cold and punishing a half-dozen or more Drow at once is complete joy. As I said, my character's only weakness is against undead and some extraplanar that can't be poisoned, paralyzed, backed up by necromancers or have additional DR bypass requirements.

    Even taking down the Training Dummy is amazing. I don't think I have any other characters that can dispatch the dummy in under 30 seconds--without boost effects like Manyshot or even 10k Stars--as fast as this character can do (now with Whirling Wrists).

    In the Devil Battlefield, I encountered both devil rares out there and ended them with ease. In fact, I love bosses. They just can't withstand such concentrated damage from the Shuricannon build.

    And wielding the Celestia is one level away. Really need some Drow Smoke Goggles now to transfer my Seeker away from the off-hand.

    Soon I'll start using Szyncletica to farm Tokens for herself in "Devil Assault" on eN. That's something I've never done on any Ninja, which is a fitting testament to the build's resilience.

    You do have to play the build to the Ninja strengths, such as using stealth at times. Else, you won't gain better ki regeneration and also leave yourself likely to get directly attacked and less likely to recover.
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more
    (formerly known as Spencerian)

  12. #92
    Community Member Firewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencerian View Post
    Wanted to relate my thoughts for the record, for any that are still considering the build.
    Thank you for your thoughts and gratz to level 22! I always like to hear how others fare with the build and what customizations they work with.

    Against undead the best you can do is to craft a triple positive greensteel shuriken. I think this is an essential part of the build since greater disruption and the other damage procs are on the brink of being overpowered with this high attack speed (this is a bit made up by the fact that you cannot break most undead DR with this shuriken).

    One tip i wanted to add to the build (which might be quite obvious) is: Don't invest much into Doubleshot! Since this build has enough Ki regen to constantly spam Veil and 10k stars you can use 10k stars anytime it is off cooldown. With the 45 second debuff of -100% Doubleshot any Doubleshot chance you have is only effective for 15 seconds in a time frame of one minute. This is really not much so there is no need to invest heavily into it.
    Shuricannon 2.0 Drow 20 Monk Thrower for DPS, Nethercannon Shadar-Kai 15 Pal/3 Monk/2 Rog Thrower for Past Lifes
    Shiradi Shuricannon Drow 20 Monk Thrower for Defense, Shiradi Warcannon Warforged 11 Wiz/6 Monk/3 Rog Thrower...Throwers for the win

  13. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firewall View Post
    Thank you for your thoughts and gratz to level 22! I always like to hear how others fare with the build and what customizations they work with.

    Against undead the best you can do is to craft a triple positive greensteel shuriken. I think this is an essential part of the build since greater disruption and the other damage procs are on the brink of being overpowered with this high attack speed (this is a bit made up by the fact that you cannot break most undead DR with this shuriken).

    One tip i wanted to add to the build (which might be quite obvious) is: Don't invest much into Doubleshot! Since this build has enough Ki regen to constantly spam Veil and 10k stars you can use 10k stars anytime it is off cooldown. With the 45 second debuff of -100% Doubleshot any Doubleshot chance you have is only effective for 15 seconds in a time frame of one minute. This is really not much so there is no need to invest heavily into it.
    It's amazing right now how un-dependent I am on any Doubleshot effects anywhere at present. Ten-K Stars or Pin works well for burst damage. Often just keeping an enemy (boss, usually) constantly targeted while strafing (inviting any in the path to damage as well) seems to be fine.

    Hoping to make several Shroud runs to get at least a Disruptor item before I first TR; I think it's more needed than a MinII since the damage from a crafted one with the needed DR seems to get the job done, if unspectacularly. With a 2nd life, the XP from Necropolis and other undead haunts will be something I can't ignore next time.

    The Stay Good ability in Shiradi should help on that Triple Positive for most undead, right? Skeletons less, more fleshy undead should take full damage.
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more
    (formerly known as Spencerian)

  14. #94
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    Was working out the extra shuriken proc rates for another toon, but decided to put the math here as well, since it's relevant. Note, in reference to firewall's earlier post, i'm ignoring double shot, since it will be irrelevant most of the time.

    abbreviations:
    D= dexterity score/100
    TTS=(3*Wis mod +30)/100

    no 10k stars

    1 shuriken=(1-D)(1-D)
    2 shuriken=2*(1-D)*D
    3 shuriken= D*D



    With 10k stars:
    1 shuriken=(1-D)*(1-D)*(1-TTS)
    2 shuriken=TTS*(1-D)*(1-D)+2*(1-TTS)*(1-D)*D
    3 shuriken=D*D*(1-TTS)+2*(D*TTS*(1-D))
    4 shuriken=D*D*TTS

    Note: i'm operating under the assumption that 10k stars triggers independently of the other two effects(which so far appears to be true, but is hard to tell), Also, based on the formula found here, http://ddowiki.com/page/Ten_Thousand_Stars
    the odds of a 3rd shot from 10k stars will be ignored

    Now, with a dex of 44 and a wis of 24(TTS of .51), gives you:
    w/o 10k stars
    ~31.3% chance of 1 shuriken
    ~49.3% chance of 2 shuriken
    ~19.3% chanec of 3 shuriken

    for about 1.85 shuriken/throw

    w/ 10k stars
    ~15.5% chance of 1 shuriken
    ~40.2% chance of 2 shuriken
    ~34.5% chance of 3 shuriken
    ~09.8% chance of 4 shuriken

    for about 2.3 shuriken/throw.



    Don't know if this will help anyone, i just like number crunching when i'm bored for build ideas, and figured this fit here as well.

  15. #95
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    Default Just Sayin

    Thought i would chime in here...I have been playing this and like most others...have been loving it. I have a 3rd life Drow monk with top end gear, wraps, stars etc...my bread and butter...but have always kept her as a stunner and general mayhem maker/killer. I did a first life Drow to see if i would like it, and with just random gen loot and a crafted star he is some serious fun. seriously. serious fun.

    I just wanted to thank you. I might even LR my sweet baby monk into this but think i will enjoy gearing him up more than the easy road of an LR.

    Thanks again...if anyone out there cares...I am on Sarlona. Perpensity is my bread and butter sweet baby monk :P and Greywurm is the new thrower on the block. I am friendly and like to kill things. look me up.

  16. #96
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    Default Argh! alway the last to know!!!

    So I only just found this thread, great build and Ideas!

    I have been running a Shuriken build of very similar characteristics for the last six months and loving it. I wish I would have found this thread when I was making him!

    I went drow pure ranger at first, then added 6 levels of monk in the most recent LR. He was made on a lark so is a fist lifer, now at level 26.

    For our guild site I was forced to finally get down to the brass tacks of rate of fire to answer some questions being "thrown" my way be fellow guildies about my thrower build.

    There was a issue of how many is many?

    The following results were the derived average of 10 timed runs using a base Shuriken.

    The runs were timed at 15 second lengths, as this allowed the actual rolls to retrieved from the my combat logs, But in the case of the use of 10k stars the runs were timed at 10 seconds as any attempts to time longer would run out of combat log.

    Base, just geared not action haste boost or pot:

    Base Shuriken average : 177.6 per min
    Base Shuriken best run: 196. per min
    Base Shuriken worst run: 164. per min


    10k star average: 264.3 per min
    10k best run 288 per min
    10k worst run 240 per min


    Now I have started to use 10k star and it is great don't get me wrong, but I am just blown away by the standing rate of fire I can get from this toon. the dex of 56 certainly helps. So with that in mind any real extras from the 10k is just gravy. I often forget to switch over to bow for manyshot, but it is damn handy.

    Interesting fact is that the rate of fire for 10k is only marginally better then manyshot , and of course the spelltouched stars are just so evil when stacked with the double rainbow.

    Another couple of observations from steady play, the hast action boost, and haste effect are great..... but they don't really seem to fully deliver, a 30% action boost (ranger tempest) does not come close to delivering 30% more stars thrown, it averages around 8-19 % more stars, don't get me wrong its great but its no 30%.

    I have done a new work-up for this toon, and if I went Human I could pick a increase in damage, and about a 3% increase in extra stars but not really enough to make it worth it. a

    After all these types of builds are about volume of shots, not base damage right? My is called a "the Sandblaster"

  17. #97
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    Am loving this build as well. Thought I'd test out Lighting the Candle(Hensh Myst t3) and it's not too bad. For 6 Ap's, it gives you 1d4 fire and on crits, gives 3d6 force, wasn't sure if it would work on thrown but it does. Since it's a weapon stance, it doesnt stack with sting of the ninja but I'm finding alot of poison immune mobs.

    Moonhaven

  18. #98
    The Hatchery DethTrip's Avatar
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    Default Question.

    How high can you possibly get doubleshot? Could you get it high enough to not even use 10k stars for more constant dps? Would it be high enough to be around the same amount of dps overall?
    If you're having fun, then you're doing it right.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethTrip View Post
    How high can you possibly get doubleshot? Could you get it high enough to not even use 10k stars for more constant dps? Would it be high enough to be around the same amount of dps overall?
    As i posted earlier, even a mediocre wisdom score gives >50% double shot for 30sec, and lose all other doubleshot for 45 sec. Then you'd need at least 2/3 of what you'd get from 10k stars for dps to be comparable. So, with a wis of 24, you'd need at least 34% double shot.
    as to how high it can get, 6% item, 9% past lives, 10% doubleshot feat for 25% with significant investment. Ranger levels can increase this, but only with short term buffs.


    So basically, no. You can't beat 10k stars.

  20. #100
    The Hatchery DethTrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaneArcher52689 View Post
    As i posted earlier, even a mediocre wisdom score gives >50% double shot for 30sec, and lose all other doubleshot for 45 sec. Then you'd need at least 2/3 of what you'd get from 10k stars for dps to be comparable. So, with a wis of 24, you'd need at least 34% double shot.
    as to how high it can get, 6% item, 9% past lives, 10% doubleshot feat for 25% with significant investment. Ranger levels can increase this, but only with short term buffs.


    So basically, no. You can't beat 10k stars.
    What about master of imbuement? Would it work for shurikens? I realize it would be a heavy investment but if it worked, that would be another +10%. I couldn't find any other heroic or ED enhancements that gave doubleshot. Just kicking around some ideas for discussion, not trying to upset anyone.
    If you're having fun, then you're doing it right.

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