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  1. #61
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    I've decided to hold off on the radiance and play with deception first, based on advice from several people.

    Just started to TR and got stuck on abilities.

    The main point of going Drow would be to maximize Int, but if I set Int to 20, I am stretched on the other abilities. I end up with either 10 17 12 20 8 10 or 8 17 13 20 8 10. The Con is lower than I would like but I need Dex at 17.

    If I keep Int at just 18 then I can have 10 18 14 18 8 10, much better balance with more Con and Dex. But in this case I'm essentially squandering the +2 Int and gaining almost nothing over say, going Halfling. The hobbit equivalent would be 10 18 14 18 8 8, making a difference of just 2 Cha points.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Qaliya; 08-28-2013 at 08:47 AM.

  2. #62
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    I run a level 25 STR-based rogue with decent Assassinate DCs (53+ buffed).

    Rapiers are used for the crit profile. Radiance, is essentially at it's core, CC on the cheap. You can wade into a group of mobs and through crits alone, blind a mob for six seconds that doesn't get a save, once in every four swings (and it generally applies to anything orange-named as well, iirc). It's almost always faster than bluff pulling in large groups.

    It's also much easier to find good rapiers with disruption/smiting/etc as your leveling <20, at least in my experience, than any other weapon. You can also build yourself Elemental Rapiers of Air from Challenges which are very servicable at 20-23 and also have a blindness check that eventually a mob will fail.

    Once you hit twenty, what you wanted in the past was two eMGs, or at 23, two Celestias/Agony. For one, when disentigration proc'd on dual-wielded eMGs you got 700-900 damage because it double proc'd every time. However, I think the same change that hit ToD for monks may have also affected this, and now it only proc's on the one attack (I haven't kept a close eye on it, but I've noticed 400-500 dmg lately on proc's). eMG is also a +10 weapon because of clever strike, assuming you have a +10 INT bonues at least, which I haven't found a dagger is really going to touch.

    DEX-based, you're going to be capped for damage output at some point below STR-based. You lose benefit's on Primal Scream/Titan's Grip/etc, and that's before you put yourself in FoTW for the inflated HP bosses. I may shift to DEX-based simply to push my INT up and maybe go max INT after TR'ing the first time, but not cause I dislike the STR-based build. I'm slightly torn over it because stealth really only makes sense in groups when you go for the first two kills, and everything after that is generally melee while your counter cools down.

    I started as Neutral Good Halfling 19str/17dex/14con/15int/8wis/8cha

    ETA: Deception helps yourself versus the mob you are fighting, radiance helps you against the ones you are not, and the group. A geared rogue can have both at least until the radiance/greater sirroco weapons get outclassed around level 20-23.
    Last edited by myliftkk_v2; 08-28-2013 at 09:40 AM.

  3. #63
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    Thanks, myliftkk_v2.

    I may still go the radiance approach. I'm going to wait and see; I have the shards to make the item and I can do it in my rogue life if I decide it's worth it. I am going to take Weapon Finesse.

    Re: "19str/17dex/14con/15int/8wis/8cha". I assume these include the every-4-levels increases, and so you probably started with something like 16 17 14 14 8 8?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Thanks, myliftkk_v2.

    I may still go the radiance approach. I'm going to wait and see; I have the shards to make the item and I can do it in my rogue life if I decide it's worth it. I am going to take Weapon Finesse.

    Re: "19str/17dex/14con/15int/8wis/8cha". I assume these include the every-4-levels increases, and so you probably started with something like 16 17 14 14 8 8?
    I believe so. 17 to grab the full TWF line. Other levelups into STR and INT. Even at 14 base con, I'm sitting on 580-620hp depending on the ED and gear slotted.

    Also, something to note in the new content is the casters like to cast web now. Eventually you'll fail a web save (and a rogue already is going to fail a lot of will saves), and dumping str, you're essentially a sitting duck until the web wears off (if my DEX-based monk gets caught in a web, it's basically go get a drink time). I've already used the Harper Pin more in the new content than in all the time I had it combined.

    I'm going to wait until I hit 28 and see how Assassinate works in the EE content before deciding exactly how to TR. One of the best rogues on Gland is a halfing, and I believe STR-based if I judge their playstyle correctly.

    ETA: Once you grab a deception item (like Golden Guile), you can be radiance/greater sirroco + improved deception.

  5. #65
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    Unfortunately I just don't have the points to put a lot into strength without giving up necessary points in other stats. I'll have to rely on FOM and tricks like fireshield for web-spammers.

    Leaning towards 10 17 12 20 8 10 at the moment, making up for the lower Con with other things like Barb past life, guild augment slot items, +4 Con tome and so forth. But willing to be convinced otherwise.

  6. #66
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    Disclaimer: These were on the old system. I have not run a Rogue under the new enhancements.


    My main has 2 rogue and 1 ranger PLs. I used a Rad2 rapier for the first rogue life and added a Lit2 short sword for the other two. When blinded, once the sneak attack damage starts rolling in, things die fast. I mean REALLY fast. I very rarely assassinated, pretty much only for fun every now and again. I would wait for someone else to grab the aggro and then whale away...hack-n-slash at it's finest. I highly recommend a Rad2.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Unfortunately I just don't have the points to put a lot into strength without giving up necessary points in other stats. I'll have to rely on FOM and tricks like fireshield for web-spammers.

    Leaning towards 10 17 12 20 8 10 at the moment, making up for the lower Con with other things like Barb past life, guild augment slot items, +4 Con tome and so forth. But willing to be convinced otherwise.
    Regarding 10cha, 8cha with the right +4 tome/gear/buffs will get you no fail heal scrolls easily. I'm sitting at 17cha and only a +5cha item, and I've got 80% heal scroll before any buffs. Between yugo pots/+umd item/etc, it's not hard to get to no fail as long as you max the skill. You will however, need hp more often than +1umd at many points you will not be stealthed either because your assassinate fails or the mobs discover you, especially with the new aoe attacks by shadar kai, etc. Besides which, in a fight where you need to keep swinging, it's faster to drink SFPs as you don't have to change gear.

  8. #68
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    Drow get an inherent +2 to Cha, so 8 isn't an option. If I could move those two points into Con, I would, believe me.

    But I really want either elf or drow because of the insta-searching ability, and I think Drow offers a bit more for an assassin.

  9. #69
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    What sort of tome do you have on your now-rogue?

    I had a 12 CON on mine (just TR'd her to a Bard) but that +5 CON tome she pulled and all the gear helped quite a bit...
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Drow get an inherent +2 to Cha, so 8 isn't an option. If I could move those two points into Con, I would, believe me.

    But I really want either elf or drow because of the insta-searching ability, and I think Drow offers a bit more for an assassin.
    IMO, insta-search is overrated. TS will get you most all doors, and you can insta-search by facetrapping with your reflex save. At best, you're knocking a tiny handful of seconds off a quest.

  11. #71
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    I have a +4 Con tome.

    Not entirely sure about the insta-search either. It's a fairly expensive ability. But I figure I can try it and turn if off if I don't like it.

    Stats wouldn't be any better as a Halfling so I'm thinking Drow is the way I'll lean. Though Halflings do seem to have slightly more tantalizing enhancements.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Thanks, myliftkk_v2.

    I may still go the radiance approach. I'm going to wait and see; I have the shards to make the item and I can do it in my rogue life if I decide it's worth it. I am going to take Weapon Finesse.

    Re: "19str/17dex/14con/15int/8wis/8cha". I assume these include the every-4-levels increases, and so you probably started with something like 16 17 14 14 8 8?
    You know, someone made a good point about GS ConOpp items giving you +6 to CHR skills (namely UMD). If you are going to grind a greensteel item, and going completionist, going ConOpp first might be more beneficial than crafting a weapon as you can use this same item on casters as well.

  13. #73
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    I have one.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Second, I went with the Wiki recommendation (I have a Halfling), and started with a base CHR of 8. In order to get my UMD up to decent levels – and this is with epic spyglass from CC, which is fairly easy to farm – I had to quaff a Heroism pot, so that I could cast a Greater Heroism scroll to improve my UMD for the rest of my buffs. It was an annoying PITA. This time around, when I LR-ed, I changed-out some STR for CHR, and I can basically drop the pot from that sequence, and it makes things easier. Plus, when you go proc-based weapons damage, the STR increases don’t really mean that much overall for DPS. At least I haven’t seen a change that was worth notice.

    ...

    I don’t recall at present if I have a +6 CHR item on my toon. I’m really in the middle of getting my pally into epic levels before I TR my rogue.
    Another trick--at higher levels--is to make a weapon set with a scroll in the main hand and Flameward (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Flameward) in the off-hand. If you aren't running a CHA 6 item somewhere else and/or a persuasion item, this instantly gives you about a +30% to your UMD chance. However, you have to put the scroll on the hotbar separately and click the scroll to activate it.

    What I usually do is make a hotbar with the weapon set--usually a Heal scroll and Flameward--in position one, and all the scrolls I might want to pop along the line. So, a quick click of the first (weapon set) button, then click twice on whatever scroll I want to cast, then click back to my fighting weapon set. (click twice on scroll to set it then cast it. If you've already got it equipped, cooldown usually prevents double casting.)

    If you have to pop something like a heroism pot or a heroism clicky, consider putting that on the same hotbar so you just click your weapon set (+30% UMD), your heroism buff, then scroll all in one place.

  15. #75
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todkaninchen View Post
    Another trick--at higher levels--is to make a weapon set with a scroll in the main hand and Flameward (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Flameward) in the off-hand. If you aren't running a CHA 6 item somewhere else and/or a persuasion item, this instantly gives you about a +30% to your UMD chance. However, you have to put the scroll on the hotbar separately and click the scroll to activate it.
    Hey, that's a good idea.

    And I've got a couple of those lying around in other toons that I have really no use for. Thanks for the tip!

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todkaninchen View Post
    Another trick--at higher levels--is to make a weapon set with a scroll in the main hand and Flameward (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Flameward) in the off-hand. If you aren't running a CHA 6 item somewhere else and/or a persuasion item, this instantly gives you about a +30% to your UMD chance. However, you have to put the scroll on the hotbar separately and click the scroll to activate it.

    What I usually do is make a hotbar with the weapon set--usually a Heal scroll and Flameward--in position one, and all the scrolls I might want to pop along the line. So, a quick click of the first (weapon set) button, then click twice on whatever scroll I want to cast, then click back to my fighting weapon set. (click twice on scroll to set it then cast it. If you've already got it equipped, cooldown usually prevents double casting.)

    If you have to pop something like a heroism pot or a heroism clicky, consider putting that on the same hotbar so you just click your weapon set (+30% UMD), your heroism buff, then scroll all in one place.
    Great idea. I have done the same thing with a GS healing amp weapon in my off hand. Great way to get a healing amp boost you might not have otherwise.
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