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  1. #21
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    SirValentine's Avatar
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    Good stuff, thanks for the effort.

    I don't give out positive rep much anymore, since I can't give out neg, but what the heck, have a +1.

  2. #22
    Community Member threefeetunder's Avatar
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    Great thread

    You could also add in the new version of Divine Might in the 'other' category under Cha. Adds Cha mod to your Str.

    Also the Morninglord 4th tier ability Grace allows them to use Dex to damage with morningstars, maces and hammers.

    You could also add in that Ninja training and Shuriken expertise allow you a %chance to throw an extra shuriken based on your dex.

    Also if you're including the pally Cha mod to saves, you should include monk Wis mod to ac.

    Edit: Almost forgot, there's also the druid Takedown ability in wolf form that is effectively a trip that uses your Wis mod.

    Tier 2 shadowdancer ability Escape Notice: Diplomacy effect that uses Hide instead.
    Last edited by threefeetunder; 09-07-2013 at 03:48 PM.

  3. #23
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    Tempest core enhancements allow DEX for To-Hit and damage for light weapons and scimitars.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuro_zero View Post
    They are not light weapons but rather an exception usable with weapon finesse. Assassin 3 "Dagger in the Back" enhancement +DEX to dmg does not work with rapiers as they are not light weapons.
    Dagger in the back is core ability number 2 and if you have weapon finesse it allies to "any melee weapon you can use dex to hit with". It works just fine on rapiers. (just tested it myself to be sure)
    Last edited by Krelar; 09-07-2013 at 01:49 PM.

  5. #25
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuro_zero View Post
    They are not light weapons but rather an exception usable with weapon finesse. Assassin 3 "Dagger in the Back" enhancement +DEX to dmg does not work with rapiers as they are not light weapons.

    Flame Blade can also be gotten as the bought Druid PL feat 3/rest.
    Srry that was a typo i meant Aren't and thx I'll add the Past life feat
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  6. #26
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Good stuff, thanks for the effort.

    I don't give out positive rep much anymore, since I can't give out neg, but what the heck, have a +1.
    Quote Originally Posted by threefeetunder View Post
    Great thread

    You could also add in the new version of Divine Might in the 'other' category under Cha. Adds Cha mod to your Str.

    Also the Morninglord 4th tier ability Grace allows them to use Dex to damage with morningstars, maces and hammers.

    You could also add in that Ninja training and Shuriken expertise allow you a %chance to throw an extra shuriken based on your dex.

    Also if you're including the pally Cha mod to saves, you should include monk Wis mod to ac.

    Edit: Almost forgot, there's also the druid Takedown ability in wolf form that is effectively a trip that uses your Wis mod.

    Tier 2 shadowdance ability Escape Notice: Diplomacy effect that uses Hide instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by MindCakes View Post
    Tempest core enhancements allow DEX for To-Hit and damage for light weapons and scimitars.
    Awesome thanks guys I actually have to leave for work right now but Ill be sure to add all of this when I get home
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  7. #27
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Ok updated it, thx guys
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  8. #28
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Bug Warning: Currently it seems adding piercing or slashing damage to unarmed doesn't allow you to use any of the Ninja Spy enhancements that require that (ie. Ninja Spy Training 1/2 for dex to ATK/DMG, and Sting of the Ninja for poison Dots) this includes stuff like Druid Wolf (P,S) or Bear Form (P,B) or Brawling Gloves (P)

    Anyone who reads this can you do me a favor and test this out yourselves and post a bug report as well...I already have but "squeaky wheel gets the oil" and whatnot.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 09-13-2013 at 01:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  9. #29
    Community Member Tom_Hunters's Avatar
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    thanks for compiling this!!

  10. #30
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Bug Warning: Currently it seems adding piercing or slashing damage to unarmed doesn't allow you to use any of the Ninja Spy enhancements that require that (ie. Ninja Spy Training 1/2 for dex to ATK/DMG, and Sting of the Ninja for poison Dots) this includes stuff like Druid Wolf (P,S) or Bear Form (P,B) or Brawling Gloves (P)

    Anyone who reads this can you do me a favor and test this out yourselves and post a bug report as well...I already have but "squeaky wheel gets the oil" and whatnot.
    yeah I tested out with Brawling gloves on a 2 rogue 8 fighter 10 monk and it does not work with the gloves.

    my thinking is that sting of the ninja only applies to actual piercing or slashing weapons not added piercing effects added by brawling gloves.

    tested Sting of the ninja on centered heavy picks (working)

    as far as the wolf and bear go even though the wolf form does piercing and slashing damage / the bear does slashing and bludgeoning damage they are considered unarmed attacks and are effected by improved critical bludgeoning < I would assume this is how they are being looked at by sting of the ninja as well (not tested no druid ATM)

    on a related note it appears that taking the ninja spy to unlock sting of the ninja causes DEX to attack and damage even if your STR is higher than DEX which is a bummer

  11. #31
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_Hunters View Post
    thanks for compiling this!!
    No problem...I noticed it was a bit of a PITA to keep running through the various pages on DDO wiki (which is an amazing resource) and I figured this was something that would be nice to have all in one place and instead of just having it as an excel file on my PC I figured I may as well share it with others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    yeah I tested out with Brawling gloves on a 2 rogue 8 fighter 10 monk and it does not work with the gloves.

    my thinking is that sting of the ninja only applies to actual piercing or slashing weapons not added piercing effects added by brawling gloves.

    tested Sting of the ninja on centered heavy picks (working)

    as far as the wolf and bear go even though the wolf form does piercing and slashing damage / the bear does slashing and bludgeoning damage they are considered unarmed attacks and are effected by improved critical bludgeoning < I would assume this is how they are being looked at by sting of the ninja as well (not tested no druid ATM)

    on a related note it appears that taking the ninja spy to unlock sting of the ninja causes DEX to attack and damage even if your STR is higher than DEX which is a bummer
    I complained about the IC:Bludgeoning issue when they first released Druid saying they should be able to take any relevant IC to the damage type they do otherwise it would confuse people...I bet you any moeny at least half the druids out there looked at Bear and Wolf Form and said "They both do Piercing damage I should tale IC: Piercing so they both benefit from it" and wonder why it doesn't work, now this just makes things worse

    Devs please fix this bug and if you wouldn't mind adding Wis to Damage for Henshins w/Q-Staffs and Dex or Wis to damage for Shintaos w/ Unarmed.

    Also fix stunning fist to work with any ki weapon like other Monk abilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  12. #32
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    No problem...I noticed it was a bit of a PITA to keep running through the various pages on DDO wiki (which is an amazing resource) and I figured this was something that would be nice to have all in one place and instead of just having it as an excel file on my PC I figured I may as well share it with others.



    I complained about the IC:Bludgeoning issue when they first released Druid saying they should be able to take any relevant IC to the damage type they do otherwise it would confuse people...I bet you any moeny at least half the druids out there looked at Bear and Wolf Form and said "They both do Piercing damage I should tale IC: Piercing so they both benefit from it" and wonder why it doesn't work, now this just makes things worse

    Devs please fix this bug and if you wouldn't mind adding Wis to Damage for Henshins w/Q-Staffs and Dex or Wis to damage for Shintaos w/ Unarmed.

    Also fix stunning fist to work with any ki weapon like other Monk abilities.

    its not really a bug

    the issue it that druid wolf and bear attacks are considered unarmed and unarmed is bludgeoning regardless of the type of damage the form provides.

    funny fact from my Druid wolf life I used a Lit2 Heavy Repeating crossbow in wolf from only downfall was no shield

  13. #33
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    the issue it that druid wolf and bear attacks are considered unarmed and unarmed is bludgeoning regardless of the type of damage the form provides.
    Which was a minor bug during release but with the advent of the Ninja Spy training its a much bigger deal and honestly imo Henshin should get Wisdom to Damage with Q-Staffs and Shintao should get either Wis or Dex to damage for unarmed...personally I think Wisdom makes more sense...think the Hyugaa clan from Naruto they infuse their attacks with their Ki (wisdom) to harm their opponents or just plain shut their bodies down by cutting off their life force essentially (think stunning fist and quivering palm)

    Even real life shintao monks focus more on precision and tactical thinking as opposed to physical strength, mostly using the opponents strength as momentum...there's a reason why an 90 year Shintao master can embaress say a world champion MMA fighter without even moving from his starting point. So Dex (weapon finesse) for to-hit and Wisdom (Insightful Strikes or say...Ki Strike...prob move Ironskin to tier 3 make "Deft Strikes" a pre-req and stick this in tier 2) for damage makes total sense for both real life and DnD wise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  14. #34
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Which was a minor bug during release but with the advent of the Ninja Spy training its a much bigger deal and honestly imo Henshin should get Wisdom to Damage with Q-Staffs and Shintao should get either Wis or Dex to damage for unarmed...personally I think Wisdom makes more sense...think the Hyugaa clan from Naruto they infuse their attacks with their Ki (wisdom) to harm their opponents or just plain shut their bodies down by cutting off their life force essentially (think stunning fist and quivering palm)

    Even real life shintao monks focus more on precision and tactical thinking as opposed to physical strength, mostly using the opponents strength as momentum...there's a reason why an 90 year Shintao master can embaress say a world champion MMA fighter without even moving from his starting point. So Dex (weapon finesse) for to-hit and Wisdom (Insightful Strikes or say...Ki Strike...prob move Ironskin to tier 3 make "Deft Strikes" a pre-req and stick this in tier 2) for damage makes total sense for both real life and DnD wise.
    I don't disagree with you views they are spot on

    my only concern is that with dex to/ or wis to/ I would prefer if it is not a definite stat to damage

    for example if Strength is higher than dex or wis then Strength should over ride as the to/ damage or to/ attack

    on my last life I was running a 8 fighter 2 rogue 10 monk splash (rogue for traps I take 2 1 at 1st level for more skill points than 2 in the mid levels to get more skill points in trap skills really helps even it all out compared to 1 rogue that struggles sometimes)

    anyway I was using a Strength based build with wisdom as a secondary stat focusing on using both stunning fist and stunning blows to keep everything stunned almost at all times very effective.

    I took some of the ninja spy enhancements and I am not certain if it was using dex to attack and damage when I used piercing weapons with centered Kensii Tree

    I am doing another monk like now 9 monk 8 fighter 3 Arti (for traps and repeater for ranged) just a fun splash for me) I am using slashing weapons this like and I'll better test if ninja spy makes dex to damage override a higher strength

  15. #35
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    All the x ability to y stat things are SUPPOSED apply the highest if it doesn't its a bug.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  16. #36
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    All the x ability to y stat things are SUPPOSED apply the highest if it doesn't its a bug.
    yeah I've been reading other posts of ninja spy being bugged with dex to damage but, I will test it out in a few levels

  17. #37
    Community Member kuro_zero's Avatar
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    Flame Blades can be added to Ki weapons in "Other"
    Officer of Disciples of the Apocalypse on Sarlona
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    Completionist Project: GLaDOS - Life 14 of ??: Bladeforged 'Zeus' - Started 22/02/14

  18. #38
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuro_zero View Post
    Flame Blades can be added to Ki weapons in "Other"
    Sorry I missed that, just added it, thanks for the info
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  19. #39
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    U19.2 changed the two first core enhancement names from Ninja Spy to "Basic Ninja Training" and "Advanced ninja Training", instead of sharing the name "Ninja Training".
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  20. #40
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    U19.2 changed the two first core enhancement names from Ninja Spy to "Basic Ninja Training" and "Advanced ninja Training", instead of sharing the name "Ninja Training".
    Oh thanks I totally forgot to update that...less confusing now but didn't they also break it so it doesn't with half the weapons it should?

    Edit: Updated
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 10-14-2013 at 12:30 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

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