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Thread: Is It Time Yet?

  1. #1
    Community Member Philibusta's Avatar
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    Default Is It Time Yet?

    Seems to me...as I peruse the forums this evening....that there are an awful lot of awfully unhappy people out there in DDO-land. And most of this unhappiness seems to stem from the Enhancement Pass. Many, many, many, many different things about the Enhancement Pass.

    So..is it time yet?

    Is it time for all the people (like me) that were saying "This New Thing, it will suck" and "Don't do this, Turbine, it will suck" all along, to look at the "the new enhancement system will be all flowers and candy" crowd and say....

    WE ****IN' TOLD YOU SO!!!!

    Seriously. It blows. No two ways about it, it blows. Just look at the forum topics if you don't want to believe me. Day ONE of the Pass going live and there's PAGES of threads of people seriously ****ed off about this thing. Many different aspects of it, not just one or two things.

    People are quitting the game altogether over it. A lot of people feel that their characters are now useless. I know, to a certain segment of the player base, "if it's not absolutely optimal, it's useless". I'm sure some of the people saying their characters are now useless come directly from that camp. And I'm also sure that others don't. Regardless, they all feel their characters, that they spent so much time and effort developing (and money in some cases), are useless now, under a new system that they had absolutely no choice about (aside from choosing to play a different game). That is NOT a way to retain players.

    My hope is that some of those "flowers and candy" posters are some of the ones that are seriously ****ed off about the way things turned out. Maybe that'll show them that sometimes things that ain't broke don't need fixing.

    Oh and one other thing: the whole "We told you so!" thing...was it low and petty? Yes, it probably was.

    Did it feel ohhhhhh so good? After months of being called a "doomsayer" and being told "no, just wait, it'll be awesome".....Ohhhhhhh yessssssss, it did!
    All that is wrong with DDO, life, taxes, poltics, religion, music, fast food, education, the criminal justice system, the weather, society, the universe, and previously-discontinued-but-now-on-their-way-back snack cakes, is all the fault of Wizards of the Coast. I know this because Fred told me so, and Mind Flayers are smart.

  2. #2
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Did things change? Yes.
    Are people upset by these changes? Yes.
    Am I upset by them? Some of them, sure.

    But I'm noticing that, like usual, most of the "OMGZ My toonz r broken!" are people's first reactions before they bother to actually learn the new system, or are based on misinformation about the old system.

    So, yeah, there are plenty of problems with the new system. And plenty of things to be upset about. But give it a chance before you go all doom and gloom. I'm not saying it's perfect, but the same can be said for the old system. The difference is people were used to the old system. Mots of the new system isn't a nerf, or a buff. It's simply different, and that's what people are really upset about.
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
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  3. #3
    Community Member Avenging_Angel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    The difference is people were used to the old system. Mots of the new system isn't a nerf, or a buff. It's simply different, and that's what people are really upset about.
    Pretty much this.

    People hate change, and the vocal minority won't miss the chance to complain on the forums. It's different from the previous system, so characters built around that may not be optimal for the new one, and I think there is nothing wrong with that. The game has built-in mechanics to start anew with some little perks, so I suppose most characters will be fixed by the natural tide of reincarnations.

    Also, while some have tested before launch, I think it's too early to give a fair assessment of the new system. The structure seems ok, or at least better than the "blind" progression of the previous one. I spent a couple hours reading all the abilities of half of my toons (and I don't have many), and I'm still undecided about my cleric (that will need another hour of deliberation).
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonulino View Post
    No matter what you post, there is always someone who responds with something like "Unless you are gimped, you should be able to do this with your eyes closed and one hand tied behind your back." It gets a little tiresome.

  4. #4
    Community Member Eilierie's Avatar
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    Hmmm been gone from the game for six months or so due to work.

    Was getting fed up with all the changes before I left.

    Got a few minutes last night and today to peruse the forums, log in and update the game files. After reading the Release notes I was actually excite to log in and check it out.

    As a casual player, from a quick glance it killed my pajama tank dark monk tank build and also ruined my plans to TR into a Hunter of the Dead 12 pally 6 monk 2 fighter build to knock out my pally past life but.... after being away for six months.... I'm just happy to play !

    Maybe you need to take a break ? Seriously, not trying to be smart ass for once, I let my VIP lapse and didn't plan to return... but after checking out Neverwinter and trying unsuccessfully to download Path of Exile for the past three days.... I'm just happy to have a cool game to play, ruined builds and all.

    Signed,
    not a fanboi

  5. #5
    Community Member Philibusta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    Did things change? Yes.
    Are people upset by these changes? Yes.
    Am I upset by them? Some of them, sure.

    But I'm noticing that, like usual, most of the "OMGZ My toonz r broken!" are people's first reactions before they bother to actually learn the new system, or are based on misinformation about the old system.

    So, yeah, there are plenty of problems with the new system. And plenty of things to be upset about. But give it a chance before you go all doom and gloom. I'm not saying it's perfect, but the same can be said for the old system. The difference is people were used to the old system. Mots of the new system isn't a nerf, or a buff. It's simply different, and that's what people are really upset about.
    BUT The.....

    And then theres the....

    Hmmm....

    AHA! I have it. OK here goes: (ahem)

    "Your coolheadedness and logical reasoning are completely unbecoming in this time of high drama and irrationality. You should adjust your attitude accordingly."

    There. Guess I told YOU.
    All that is wrong with DDO, life, taxes, poltics, religion, music, fast food, education, the criminal justice system, the weather, society, the universe, and previously-discontinued-but-now-on-their-way-back snack cakes, is all the fault of Wizards of the Coast. I know this because Fred told me so, and Mind Flayers are smart.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philibusta View Post
    Is it time for all the people (like me) that were saying "This New Thing, it will suck" and "Don't do this, Turbine, it will suck" all along, to look at the "the new enhancement system will be all flowers and candy" crowd and say....

    WE ****IN' TOLD YOU SO!!!!
    I thought the first view of enhancements on Lamannia were complete dog****, but I'm really pleased with the live release.

    Seriously. It blows. No two ways about it, it blows. Just look at the forum topics if you don't want to believe me. Day ONE of the Pass going live and there's PAGES of threads of people seriously ****ed off about this thing. Many different aspects of it, not just one or two things.
    So you're basing your opinion on what other people are saying?

    Just log in and try it yourself. Most of the hate is just because it's new and different. I spent a good hour on my Rogue, trying to get everything just right, but I think she's much better off. My Bard, too, and my Sorc who now has two additional SLA's.

    Everyone also got free +20 LRs. A lot of multi-classed builds got ruined; if Turbine hadn't done that, then they'd certainly have a much stronger case.

    Did it feel ohhhhhh so good? After months of being called a "doomsayer" and being told "no, just wait, it'll be awesome".....Ohhhhhhh yessssssss, it did!
    You seem pretty glad that a game that you've played for four years has, supposedly, been completely ruined.

  7. #7
    Community Member Jeremiah179's Avatar
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    Do I dislike the placement of the loot reroll? Yes

    Do I dislike the permanent placement on my UI screen bottom right where I used to use bars and be able to click on them? yes


    Did I have to spend over 3 hours just reading and clicked and canceling and reading and clicking and resetting until I was satisfied with my first attempt on my 3 characters? 2 which are multiclassed? Yes

    Actual result?

    I was able to avoid clicking on the reroll...ALMOST did the first time. This one is cheesy/sleezy - but I will survive. Maybe that can be another VIP mechanic, no banner ads! lol

    When they put the coke machine in the main square in Eveningstar....well then I wont be able to take it anymore! lol

    Have I done about 8 quests so far in Eveningstar chain on EH? Yes

    Does my character feel dramatically more powerful and am I having fun? Yes

    ****

    PS There is also a lot of new loot with new ways of giving us special powers and abilities - none of them have replaced my fully geared stuff yet...however, the system looks promising for new players and fun for us to read and actually be curious what the loot is and does.

    It also looks promising for the future of the game.

    ****
    Example of something I lost that was frustrating? My Ranger/Rogue used to have Ranger Run Boost and Rogue attack speed boost and I used both, a lot.

    Now to have those two clicks, I would have to splash fighter. (do not want to)

    However, nothing was so epically ruined that I needed to +20TR any of them...yet.

    ****

    I think this was/is a painful transition for some... but will make for a better game overall going forward. Thank you for being brave Turbine. We want to have a game for several more years... not just try to keep the game we were fond of 5 years ago.

    Some of these complainers must of spend more time in the forum than in the game I think!


    PSS I did not go to Lamania at all... I did it all cold turkey tonight when I got off work... was not that hard.
    Jeremiiah - Isaiiah - Zephaniiah - Ghallanda - Old Timers Guild

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    I'm not saying it's perfect, but the same can be said for the old system. The difference is people were used to the old system.
    Familiarity. The common theme to me is that players who paid attention during the beta, read the enhancement PDF file so kindly put forth by another player, jumped on Lama to try different builds out whenever they were able, already got all of their angst out and have more or less (with some exceptions) moved on to figuring out the new optimal builds for their characters. Quite of few of them have turned bullish on the new system because they now see pathways to power it offers the same way they saw it in the old system.

    Other players are seeing it for the first time today without any of that beta background. Once everyone else catches up and gets used to it, this topic will dry up.

    Things Turbine could have done better:

    - much longer open beta before launch, maybe two weeks instead of a few days.

    - leaving Lamannia up for a few days after launch. Just running through 2-3 builds made everything much clearer. Doing that in a risk free environment - cant break any beloved characters on Lama. Today other players got faced with it and no choice to go on Lama for a dry run first. Charging shards and plat to respec on launch day adds insult to injury, at minimum this should have been free for a couple weeks.

    - actually producing some documentation on the expected behavior of the new enhancements instead of leaving it up to players to collect and sometimes guess at the functions. Some players don't even realize basic elements of the change like spell power based on points spent in tree and so on, this kind of thing would have been great to post in a high level, "things you should know about the new enhancement system", anticipating expected issues like getting around the new UI.

    Go back in time and take away DDO Wiki and Rons Planner from everyone and many experienced players would be apoplectic over not being able to figure out how to build their characters with the old system. This is essentially what happened. We have a brand enhancement system and no comprehensive DDO Wiki pages detailing all of the ins and outs or planner to make a virtual dry run at a build before risking it with your actual.

    Some players are angry, and Turbine could have done a lot to mitigate it. They may lose some folks who are too frustrated to press through and dig into the available information produced by other players.

  9. #9
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah179 View Post
    Does my character feel dramatically more powerful and am I having fun? Yes
    This. The new enhancement system is a net buff to most characters.

    3 new feats at level 26, 27, 28 is nothing to sneeze at either. Plus many feat pre-reqs disappeared from the enhancement system, so there's even more feats freed up.

    And the new explorer area is awesome.

    But you keep on telling me so... I'm going to bed, then tomorrow I'm going to log back in and play another 4 hours...
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  10. #10
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hit_fido View Post
    leaving Lamannia up for a few days after launch. Just running through 2-3 builds made everything much clearer. Doing that in a risk free environment - cant break any beloved characters on Lama. Today other players got faced with it and no choice to go on Lama for a dry run first. Charging shards and plat to respec on launch day adds insult to injury, at minimum this should have been free for a couple weeks.
    This I agree with... I used my LR+20 on Lammania first, so now I feel comfortable using it in Live... I also reset my enhancements a dozen times for each character on Lammania. It's harder for anyone who has to only play with the new system on Live.

    They really should make respecs free for a week or two.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  11. #11
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philibusta View Post
    BUT The.....
    And then theres the....
    Hmmm....
    AHA! I have it. OK here goes: (ahem)
    "Your coolheadedness and logical reasoning are completely unbecoming in this time of high drama and irrationality. You should adjust your attitude accordingly."
    There. Guess I told YOU.
    Hahaha +1 for this.


    Quote Originally Posted by hit_fido View Post
    Some players are angry, and Turbine could have done a lot to mitigate it. They may lose some folks who are too frustrated to press through and dig into the available information produced by other players.
    Agreed 100% with all of this.
    I still don't understand most of the changes yet, but I'm looking forward to playing with them at length tomorrow.
    I'm just glad that I had a TR planned in a week or so, and with the free LR(assuming it will still be available after a TR...) I'll get a free past life feat out of all of this.
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
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  12. #12
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    I'm sorry but how can anyone actually defend this? It's not just because it changed it's because compared to what we had it's terrible.

  13. #13
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    I deliberately ignored Lammy, and any info on the Pass, so that I would walk into it cold and fresh.

    This is what I found: While doing my Wiz/Rogue PM, the new UI was easier to use, I could simply just hover over the info, and get an idea of what it did, and where I was going with things.

    It felt complex at first, and it took me quite a bit of time, before I clicked the accept changes button, and overall, my Namesake, seems vastly the same as before, maybe a tad bit better.

    My TR project, a Pure Monk, well, that was pretty easy, and after the Wiz Rogue, felt simple enough, I think there were a few mistakes I made, but then again, I think I made a few mistakes in the old system as well.

    The big thing however, was I didn't feel like I needed to spend a week planning or work with a planner to figure out what to do to get what I wanted, I just click the trainer, and get a fast idea of where I wanted to go, and what I needed to do to get there. In that front, it felt like it gave me more game time and less study time. So that was a boon.

    My Wife who has been looking into all the changes was ecstatic about them, and felt really great that her build at the end of the day was much better then it had been, but then again, she had been planning that for a while, using the PDF, and looking at Lammy, and all that, she was so happy she was literally bouncing with joy over the changes.

    As far the Enhancement pass goes, it gets a hearty "well done" from me.

  14. #14
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    i'm thrilled. ^_^

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah179 View Post
    .
    .
    .
    ****
    Example of something I lost that was frustrating? My Ranger/Rogue used to have Ranger Run Boost and Rogue attack speed boost and I used both, a lot.

    Now to have those two clicks, I would have to splash fighter. (do not want to)

    .
    .
    .
    The rogue attack speed boost is called Haste Boost, and it is Tier 2 right side of Acrobat tree. I do not have a Ranger, but I suspect the run boost is similarly 'hidden'.
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  16. #16
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    I find it very difficult to take the players seriously that are only today finding out how the new mechanics work.

    It should also be noted that people are more motivated to voice their opinions when upset (because they are lobbying for change) than when they are content and have nothing to gain from speaking up.

  17. #17
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    It will not take me another 6 months that I HATE the AS being on the lower right corner of the screen. It will also not take 6 months to realize that I HATE the reroll box in every chest I open.

    Sure some builds will be better or worse, but it does not make up for all the AI nonsense that they have added.
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  18. #18
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    So, my Healer FvS build has lost Positive Spell enhancements (used to be Life enhancements). Is there something I haven't found for FvS healers? I'm not finding any way to buff healing.

  19. #19
    Community Member Philibusta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    The rogue attack speed boost is called Haste Boost, and it is Tier 2 right side of Acrobat tree. I do not have a Ranger, but I suspect the run boost is similarly 'hidden'.
    Sort of. I found it in the Ranger Tempest tree. Right side, second tier up (looks like a Heal Skill symbol). When you click it to buy the Enhancement, it asks you to choose either Haste Boost or Sprint Boost.
    All that is wrong with DDO, life, taxes, poltics, religion, music, fast food, education, the criminal justice system, the weather, society, the universe, and previously-discontinued-but-now-on-their-way-back snack cakes, is all the fault of Wizards of the Coast. I know this because Fred told me so, and Mind Flayers are smart.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    So, my Healer FvS build has lost Positive Spell enhancements (used to be Life enhancements). Is there something I haven't found for FvS healers? I'm not finding any way to buff healing.
    You'll get Universal Spell Power from investing in the Angel of Vengeance tree. If you need more spell power, you can splash a class. 1 level of Ranger can get you a lot of Positive Spell Power in the Deepwood Stalker tree, for example. If your main goal is to get as much Spell Power as possible, currently the best way to do that is to splash a caster into your caster!

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