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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    Sorry, but I play a variety of MMOs at any time and I never see this kind of garbage from other AAA MMOs. Maybe you'd like to provide a reference?
    I think he was actually making a joke. If you read the very last line. ("This defense of Turbine brought to you by Hendrick and Postumus my "Fanbro's") Implying In other words a shill will soon be along to defend turbine for making the same mistakes over and over again.

    At least that's how my tired, just got up mind read it. ;-p

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Remember, Turbine's code management person needs to be fired (assuming it has been the same person for a while.) And I don't say that lightly. But they have consistently broken what got fixed time after time after time for the last several updates.
    Once again you have absolutely no idea how interdependent and complex code simulating a three dimensional world is. Dont pretend you do, if you knew the half of it you wouldn't make uninformed comments like this year after year, and be corrected by people who do know, year after year. If only it was so simplistic and straight forward as "code management" to think all these PC games just need to manage their code better and all their bugs would disappear!... Or I don't know; perhaps having made a "hello world" with visual basic in high school doesn't qualify one to judge actual complex code base. One of those seems more probable than the other lol.

    This defense of Turbine brought to you by Hendrick and Postumus my "Fanbro's"
    Primo, three dimensional world or not has nothing to do with it. The issue is more about the number of interacting objects, and even more about the number of possible interactions.

    Secundo, it was not claimed better code management would instantly cause all bugs to disappear. If you have to replace someone's else argument with a different one that's only superficially related, you are engaging in a straw man rhetoric.

    Tertio, hell yes they should manage their code better. It is just a game so I do not expect them to have the strictness of real business applications, but they just don't seem to have any control whatsoever.
    For example: madstone rage. At one point they planned to make it useless non-stacking bonus that wouldn't prevent spell casting, basically it'd be a regular rage clickie, and to compensate for the "upgrade" it'd also apply a shaken debuff when wearing off.
    After some player feedback the nerf was cancelled. But someone apparently already coded the debuff part... and they were literally unable to remove it from the code for the past year and a half.

    So yeah.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindCakes View Post
    Tertio, hell yes they should manage their code better. It is just a game so I do not expect them to have the strictness of real business applications, but they just don't seem to have any control whatsoever.
    Way I look on it is that it's a commercial game and I do expect them to have the highest level of strictness. It's also about professionalism, and I know that the good people at Turbine will take their profession seriously. From rl experience, good version control isn't just there to save the company embarassment when they remove previous fixes, it's to save the developers and QA frustration because they know that they had spent time and effort to fix it previously, and it's to save the producers from wasting time and energy having to expend their valuable and expensive resource to fixing old bugs instead of working on new fixes, new systems, new content and other game improvements.

    While the game code itself may be complex when you try and look at it in it's entirety, the development process breaks this down into manageable chunks. There won't be 1000 different functions that deal with the Deathward effect. There will be a small handful. If you have a tight version control system then you can see who worked on these elements last and be able to look back at previous versions to see how it was fixed before.

    Nobody loses from good version control. It's a serious no-brainer.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    The smart PM's know to just TURN THE AURA OFF THEN BACK ON!
    as i am new to wizard it will take me several fails to get smart
    if life gives you lemons, make lemonade.
    if life gives you pickles, well you're screwed. because pickleade sucks.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koshei View Post
    Thats right folks, that pesky necro wizard in your party getting on your nerves? Death ward him. For maximum effect wait till he has a bunch of aggro, and watch him wonder why his spells are not healing him anymore.
    Who DIDN'T know there would be stuff like this? There always is -

    That said, if any known/former bug was going to show up again I like this one. It is easily solved by telling dead characters in your party to stay away from the living for a moment as you throw a DW. Worse case is they have to pop in and out of form.

    Best part is the temporary re-appearance of the opportunity to grief my guildies who love their dead characters. Since they want to raise me as a zombie minion with their new animate abilities I figure this is a little way to get even.

    Enjoy it while it lasts - probably will be fixed soon

    Vallin.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    The smart PM's know to just TURN THE AURA OFF THEN BACK ON!
    That's not the point and you know it.

    You should have said something like:

    The smart devs know to USE VERSION CONTROL!
    Characters - Brion, Damerchant, Deathbot, Goode-, Minusten, Sepiriz, Spiritstrike, Stee, Steilh, Vorpaal, Wyllye, Yaga, Yagalicious, Yga. RIP - Catpizzle and Qazpe
    Beware My Gifts!!!

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Way I look on it is that it's a commercial game and I do expect them to have the highest level of strictness.
    It's a game, not a bank software or a plane navigation system.
    Misplacing a decimal point may ruin a person's evening, but won't bankrupt companies or kill hundreds.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Nobody loses from good version control. It's a serious no-brainer.
    There are costs, and it's a sliding scale, you can devote more or less effort to version control - not enough and the quality drops, too much and the costs grow or development stops; how much is enough depends on many factors.
    But it's pretty clear that they are not doing enough now.

  8. #28
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    This bug also seems to affect healing PM's after zoning into a dungeon, and can also affect us after a loading screen such as those in the Shroud. Dropping shroud and shrouding up again corrects it. The problem with that is if you shrine and shroud up and zone through, you have to wait for the 30 second shroud cooldown, which 30 seconds seems to be too long in this respect.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by thouston View Post
    as i am new to wizard it will take me several fails to get smart
    There are no smart (non rp/flavor) PM left because its not smart to play a class which gets out performed by classes that do not have two factors (SP/DC) limiting them.

    I still play my PM from time to time and will keep him but its apparent that he gets left behind more and more with each update.
    Taenebrae, Daemonsoul, Daemoneyes and Daemonheart of Argonessen
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaga_Nub View Post
    That's not the point and you know it.

    You should have said something like:

    The smart devs know to USE VERSION CONTROL!
    Hey Yaga!

    Now go DIE!



    So, for all our armchair coders, what exactly was changed in this X-pac to have this bug re-appear for PM.

    Please, tell me and our DEVs what line of code that was changed or added to have this happen again.

    Tell us so this can be fixed for Update 1.

    I'll wait.....


    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by LupusVai View Post
    I think he was actually making a joke.
    Could be, but his posting history and habits say otherwise.

  12. #32
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    Given that any archmage wizard can now pick up pale master shrouds for self-healing, this is a bigger problem than it might have been otherwise.

    My Illusionist picked up wraith form.. and 98% of the time it's entirely awesome. Incorporality miss chance (and new stealth changes) has made invisible firewall kiting more awesome than it was. Heck, the stealth changes in general make invisible anything more awesome than it was.

    But yeah, I've died a couple times to the deathward thing. I slotted in greater dispel magic, but come to think of it dropping shroud seems like a better plan.

    Hint: it no longer costs SP to shroud up.

    I have sympathy for managing a ginormous code base and releasing live updates on a rapid schedule. Been there, done that, pulled rabbits out of my hat, worked a hell of a lot after hours, left that line of work for my sanity. All the same, I hope it's prioritized for fixing sooner rather than later, as it affects a heck of a lot of wizards who would never have gone pale master before the update.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Hey Yaga!

    Now go DIE!



    So, for all our armchair coders, what exactly was changed in this X-pac to have this bug re-appear for PM.

    Please, tell me and our DEVs what line of code that was changed or added to have this happen again.

    Tell us so this can be fixed for Update 1.

    I'll wait.....

    First off, I don't die. I transcend this plane of existence. There's a huge difference.

    Second, you know I've asked for access to the code before to fix it but haven't heard from anyone at Turbine in the last 5 or so years so you need to focus on getting E and the rest of team to allow me to work my magic.

    And don't forget, since I'm the Traveler - BEWARE MY CODE!
    Characters - Brion, Damerchant, Deathbot, Goode-, Minusten, Sepiriz, Spiritstrike, Stee, Steilh, Vorpaal, Wyllye, Yaga, Yagalicious, Yga. RIP - Catpizzle and Qazpe
    Beware My Gifts!!!

  14. #34
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaga_Nub View Post
    First off, I don't die. I transcend this plane of existence. There's a huge difference.

    Second, you know I've asked for access to the code before to fix it but haven't heard from anyone at Turbine in the last 5 or so years so you need to focus on getting E and the rest of team to allow me to work my magic.

    And don't forget, since I'm the Traveler - BEWARE MY CODE!
    Trascend Yaga, trascend!



    I still prefer DIE! Yaga, DIE!

    You code like you adventure, slow and sloppy, or something like that.


    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    So, for all our armchair coders, what exactly was changed in this X-pac to have this bug re-appear for PM.

    Please, tell me and our DEVs what line of code that was changed or added to have this happen again.

    Tell us so this can be fixed for Update 1.

    I'll wait.....

    You're getting us access to the source code? Awesome news, I await further details. It'll take some time to familiarise ourselves with the internal logic adopted, give us a week and we'll be good to go.

    Oh wait, sorry, you didn't realise that's what people would need to answer your query?

    If you really don't know how software works, then there's little point trying to educate you on software engineering practices.

  16. #36
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    So.. do the undead shrouds actually stay in effect when zoning into other places? It might just be a visual bug where they are showing but arent really active.

    I know a few druid enhancements that depend on animal form (the +1-3 dodge and 1-3 base damage ones from natures warrior) require me to drop form and go back in before they start working (atleast this isnt that bad to tell since they show up as a buff in the buff bar when they are working)

    and do they not require SP anymore? I could've swore I still seen the SP cost for the forms.

  17. #37
    Community Member Sarzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violith View Post
    So.. do the undead shrouds actually stay in effect when zoning into other places? It might just be a visual bug where they are showing but arent really active.

    I know a few druid enhancements that depend on animal form (the +1-3 dodge and 1-3 base damage ones from natures warrior) require me to drop form and go back in before they start working (atleast this isnt that bad to tell since they show up as a buff in the buff bar when they are working)

    and do they not require SP anymore? I could've swore I still seen the SP cost for the forms.
    Going in and out of quests, shroud stays on and active. If I throw on wraith form out of a quest, then enter and immediately use death aura, I am healed.

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