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  1. #41
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    I set enhancements for a pure Rogue, Dark Monk, FvS, and Sorc last night and I'm pretty happy with all of them. The rogue got a big boost with clicky attacks (which I'd previewed on Lamm) on the Assassin tree. The monk basically gained DR breaking for everything by splitting across 3 trees plus even more useful clickies and situational damage, and gets all stances maxed for free. My FvS Evoker/Heal seems like it ends up more powerful than before, especially on the healing side, but haven't taken it out for a spin yet, and the Sorc got cheaper SLAs, and even some it couldn't have before.

    I haven't set the enhancements for my pale trapper yet, but at least on the pure build side, I think all mine came out better customized to how I play.

  2. #42
    Community Member Grosbeak07's Avatar
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    I'm happy with the enhancement pass too. Takes a little to get used to, but most of my characters kept everything they already had. The few who didn't picked up something else to replace what was lost. None of my characters are any weaker than they were before the pass, some didn't gain a whole lot, but didn't get weaker.
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  3. #43

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    I started designing some new multiclass toons when I saw this system on Lammania.

    This new thing.... It is GOOD for Multiclass.

    good for NEW Multi-class.... Most of the "common" multi's in the past were focused around specific enhancements. they dont all work anymore and we need to come up with new ones.

    Its my Pure builds that I'm getting stuck on.
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  4. #44
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    You read wrong. The devs made a ton of changes based on feedback. The biggest one was giving us up to 6 class trees instead of 3. They changed the AP costs all over the place. The new system is actually quite good BECAUSE the devs listened to feedback.

    Did some bugs that were caught on Lam make it to Live? Yes... But the devs did make a lot of changes and listened to their players.
    Yeap, imagine that. All those people rediculing those folks a year or so ago who were providing the feedback that sacrificing vertical advancement means a build should get lateral advancement in return, should be thanking them currently. That lateral advancement now exists and there are alot of options. 80 points was always enough of a limitation.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahson View Post
    Disappointed is mild for the way I feel. My wife's tempest lost 6 points of str. due to the change in enhancements. My aa archer took such a big nurf with slaying arrows being turned into a clicky with a cool down I can't use the words I feel here. Don't even wanna talk about the 6 points of dex he lost! I've been playing this game for close to three years and never complained, but this is just to much.
    I agree. I now consider my pure level 20 AA completely nerfed.. NO ranged alacrity (aka: capstone, and 10% doublestrike chance is NOT ranged alaracity). Unable to conjure anything over a +1 arrow(which means when leveling, you have to have +2,+3,+4,+5 bows for appropriate levels, though in epics it really doesnt matter). Slayers are a single shot with a cooldown (although if you crit with one with adrenaline it must be groovy, but you have to crit with it or its pretty useless). WAY too many clickes for different elemental damage, force damage, terror arrows, etc). Basically what DDO has done with the new enhancements, is to do away with the pure level 20 ranger, fighter, whatever classes and made it better for the power players with the Pinion in their backpack. If you dont multiclass, you're no good anymore, thats why the free +20 lr is in our backpacks. Sorry, not a happy camper here....

  6. #46
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strider1963 View Post
    I agree. I now consider my pure level 20 AA completely nerfed.. NO ranged alacrity (aka: capstone, and 10% doublestrike chance is NOT ranged alaracity). Unable to conjure anything over a +1 arrow(which means when leveling, you have to have +2,+3,+4,+5 bows for appropriate levels, though in epics it really doesnt matter). Slayers are a single shot with a cooldown (although if you crit with one with adrenaline it must be groovy, but you have to crit with it or its pretty useless). WAY too many clickes for different elemental damage, force damage, terror arrows, etc). Basically what DDO has done with the new enhancements, is to do away with the pure level 20 ranger, fighter, whatever classes and made it better for the power players with the Pinion in their backpack. If you dont multiclass, you're no good anymore, thats why the free +20 lr is in our backpacks. Sorry, not a happy camper here....
    You need to look at those "clickies" again. They are imbues, just like Slayer Arrows used to be. There are a few clickies, including Slayer Arrow, but AA picked up a few more imbues, and the ability to run more than one imbue at a time.

    You won't need a lot of bows for different level ranges either. As you progress through the tree, you're going to get similar to what Battle Engineer gets. My lvl 7 Ranger already has some of them, and since the +x Arrows didn't stack with the +x bows, where x is the same number, anyway, you're not losing anything there either. The Alacrity may be an issue, but the rest? Not so much.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbeehre View Post
    the only thing i found so far with my AA is that i can only conjure +1 Arrows instead of +3 before the enhancements (he is L15)
    In addition to what Ryiah said, they also made it so that you get +1 Enhancement Bonus (non-stacking) to any bow you wield for each AA Core ability you have.

    Essentially, at the same point for which you would have gotten to summon +3 arrows before, you get a passive +3 to any ranged weapon you hold (Essentially turning your weapon into at least a +3 bow, if it's bonus is less than that) and combined with the mechanic that Ryiah explained, you can see that it's essentially the same thing as summoning +3 arrows.

    By the by, this makes it so that you can essentially ignore whatever the native enhancement bonus is when you're looking for equipment and focus solely on which bow has the best affixes.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strider1963 View Post
    I agree. I now consider my pure level 20 AA completely nerfed.. NO ranged alacrity (aka: capstone, and 10% doublestrike chance is NOT ranged alaracity).
    Wouldn't 10% doubleshot be better than 10% ranged alacrity since, as far as I remember, ranged alacrity wasn't applying it's full bonus due to animation issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strider1963 View Post
    Unable to conjure anything over a +1 arrow(which means when leveling, you have to have +2,+3,+4,+5 bows for appropriate levels, though in epics it really doesnt matter).
    Actually, you get a passive, non-stacking enhancement bonus for taking core abilities in the AA tree, so it doesn't matter that they're only +1 arrows. Your enhancement bonus applies to the bow itself (bow bonus and arrow bonus never stacked, it was always just the higher of the two bonuses) so it's essentially the same thing.

    At level 12, I don't have to look for a +4 bow because, if I've taken the core abilities, I have a passive +4 minumum enhancement bonus to every bow I wield, so the fact that the arrows are +1 makes no difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strider1963 View Post
    Slayers are a single shot with a cooldown (although if you crit with one with adrenaline it must be groovy, but you have to crit with it or its pretty useless).
    Yeah, the nerf to slayer is sad times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strider1963 View Post
    WAY too many clickes for different elemental damage, force damage, terror arrows, etc).
    The imbues were clickies before, too. This hasn't changed. The only reason there are more clickies is because we have more options. How is that a bad thing? Morphic Arrow? Metalline Arrow? Aligned Arrow? These seem like good options to have so that you can worry less about searching for specific, exorbitantly expensive, weapon modifiers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strider1963 View Post
    Basically what DDO has done with the new enhancements, is to do away with the pure level 20 ranger, fighter, whatever classes and made it better for the power players with the Pinion in their backpack. If you dont multiclass, you're no good anymore, thats why the free +20 lr is in our backpacks. Sorry, not a happy camper here....
    I actually just changed my 18fig/1ran/1bar split into a pure fig20 arcane archer. I'm skipping the lackluster slaying arrows and using the rest of the imbues from the tree combined with the 15% doubleshot fighter capstone in Kensai as well as the rest of the goodies that Kensai brings. I think it will work out okay, but I've never been what you'd call a power gamer.
    Last edited by gurgar78; 08-20-2013 at 10:07 AM.

  9. #49
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    I am seriously disappointed, for the same reasons I've mentioned over-and-over. First, the kind of change made destroyed all my builds. There is not one single build I have that translates over into the new system.

    That brings me to my second issue - All the time, energy, and effort I put into builds is now mostly useless and wasted time. I'm talking years of learning to play the game and make effective builds to play in the style I enjoyed.

    Finally, the new system is designed, imo, to destroy the use of multiple enhancements from different specializations. My barbarian seems to be the worst off in this respect, as I can no longer build what I already had for his enhancements without sacrificing tier 5 enhancements from any tree.

    Wasted time from learning the old system well, and more wasted time learning the new system and applying it to 13 active characters has me at a point I don't feel much like logging in today. Yesterday I had to take several breaks during the remake process. I detest and despise this kind of change to give the illusion of progress, rather than developing good, solid content and cleaning up existing bugs.
    There is no free lunch.

  10. #50
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    I have to ask. How did your wife's tempest lose any strength? Rangers had no enhancements for strength before. Now they actually have some. And how did you lose 6 points of dex? Heck you can take both dex and strength now. Dex from deepwood and strength from tempest.
    No idea what he is talking about either. Rangers never had any str enhancements unless you were a HORC and HORCs still get that str enhancement. My HORC Tempest actually gained Str points.

    I would have to say that I am extremely happy with what I have seen so far. Granted, it will take some time to adjust but some of the stuff I am reading here is just plain nonsense.

    Pure classed toons are dead? Why? I have several pure toons and all of them are fine, the only one that took a decent hit was my pure Battle Engineer Arti. He doesn't get his enhancement to clickies anymore. But that makes sense IMHO. I needed to make a choice between a spell casting/clickie based Arti or an Arti with higher DPS from his weapon. So I lost the 20minute DW I was getting from my Visor of the Flesh Render in order to gain better DPS from my Repeater. Meh....no biggie.

    My pure monks all got a huge boost with the ability to go dark *and* break all DR.

    My pure Fighter got some nice boosts and I really like the more generic specializations. It's now viable for me to switch between Skybreaker and Breach without losing major DPS because I need the specific Falchion Specialization.

    My Drow Rogue Assassin got major boosts across the board. Int enhancements? Hell yes!!

  11. #51
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    OP, I honestly really am enjoying the ehancement pass. Some of my characters got nerfed, some got buffed, etc. It is all shiny and new though and just fun try to stuff out. My Pally is terrible, my bard is a rockstar healer now, my ranged character is may a little worse off with the slayer arrow change, my cc bard is about the same with more songs, my fighter norg I have to change into a multiclass. Really its great though having to think and make choices. I am really enjoying the outdoor areas and have done several of the quests which are really. Try breaking the ranks on ee. My cc bard had to work its butt off in there and you need a great party to make that one happen.

    My biggest disspointment this update is actually with the community. So many people are gone. You want to enjoy this new shiny with people and there are so few just so few. I hope people come back or they starting merging the servers. I would love to run a bunch on ee and plan to tonight regardless.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by enochiancub View Post
    I honestly cannot believe I am saying this, but I'm actually enjoying the heck out of the changes to my main character. Granted only my Artificers and my Bards have I checked out/respecced thus far. So maybe I'll be miffed when I get to all of my other toons.

    That said, I am truly sorry that you're disappointed.
    Arti okay - since it doesn't boost acid (which is the only viable rune arm next to force) it's still a loss. The pidgeon holing of everything into fire, electric and force makes acid fall behind. So flexibility lost.

    I noticed how that effected me yesterday as it took more of everything as a level 25 arti to deal with level 22 EH content.

    Monk better.

    Pure 2 handed fighter marginally the same/better.

    My tank is pretty much gone. You're now forced to do sword and board to get the full benefit from stalwart. And since I use 2wf to add dps and only S&B the few times true tanking is needed I did a LR and ended up with half the HP and more DPS but completely trashed tanking. S&B is still not viable in a world where all quest require you to fight more and more red named baddies, be it end bosses and other mini bosses.

    My sorc is weaker. I noticed that Turbine readjusted DC's so normal play nicer but harder got more so now with the same Charisma as before (the earth end cap should be giving 2 more in charisma but it doesn't) I fail spells more then before. Sure - it's good that I can add stuff from other Savant elements but that doesn't make up for the fact that it's currently weaker.

    My FvS is okay - I'd say that it's nominally 'stronger'. But then there's only one viable PrE anyways - the protector is garbage.

    My Rogue seems better - but I attribute that mainly to the change in hide and detection. It adds a few more options for backstabbing which is good but functionally it's better.

    Paladin sucks. I probably have to splash a different class or redo it from ground up. But the Paladin as a class has been badly mauled.

    My ranger has improved. Although the tempest adds way to many clickies where a lot of them could've been consolidated into a couple fewer, the possibility of adding a few things from Arcane archer is nice.

    The worst part is that core class things like favored enemy is broken into high tier deepwood sniper. That is silly on it's foot. I can't see myself wasting good AP in adding lots of points into deepwood so I can get some basic core class things like favored enemy.

    So I couldn't take any of those and now my dps is weaker because of it.

    I'm generally for the enhancement pass but some of the choices are bonkers. I get having a vision, adding functionality and improving PrEs. But it should enhance what we already had and not turn it upside down in some places.

    So tanking is now a all or nothing proposition. Consider how little use there are for a real tanks I think we're going to see fewer of those as a result of this enhancement pass.

    Monk splashing is the new rave. By making monk splashing such a powerful part of melee dps it makes going pure a much weaker proposition. And that's bad. Going pure should always be the most powerful option for that class. While multi classing should make for interesting builts, the best overall pure DPS/casting etc should come from anyone staying pure.

    That's not true in this case.

  13. #53
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    I am still playing around with the enhacenements for my main toon (Lvel 21 Earth Savant - Sorc 18 / Rog 2 / 1 EPIC, and I noticed after I dropped about 100-125 SP from the overnight change (double checked my large guild POWER augment was still slotted and it was)

    So from an early assessement I lost a bit of SP, but I seemed to gain more versatility in what I picked in my trees (Human for race, EArth Savant for my Sorc, and just ignored the Rogue tree).

    I still have basic trap skills gained from the splash, although havent really tested the DCs in a dungeon yet (that' slater this week).

    I did play around the King's Forest last night and enjoyed the situational clickies. I liked the way it played out, gave me more choices during combat, it was more than just bounce around and pew pew...I had to think about clickies and overall strategy...I admit I solo 99% of the time with hires, so I don't rely on group dynamics to complete, I just brute force my way through content most of the time nuking stuff... for me the enhancement pass what a breath of fresh air in how I play my nuker...it's more about precision and execution than just brute force.

    TOnight I will test the waters in a a few quests and challenges to see how it goes...so far, i like it.

  14. #54
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    Well day before yesterday her str was 48 today it's 42. Where it went I'd like to know?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahson View Post
    Well day before yesterday her str was 48 today it's 42. Where it went I'd like to know?
    SO detail out your character and figure it out.

    I cant think of any way enhancements alone would of accounted for a six point swing. Of course, if you dont know how you got to 48 inthe first place, that kinda lessens your credibility.
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  16. #56
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    Well day before yesterday her str was 48 today it's 42. Where it went I'd like to know?
    As would we because Tempest never had any str enhancements to begin with and HORC only had a 2 point str enhancement.

    Maybe you were looking at your character with some clickies running? Maybe a Rage along with a Rams Might? Could be anything, but what it is *not* is a loss due to the new enhancement system. It just isn't possible. 6 Dex isn't possible either. Maybe an Elf with all Dex enhancements taken can get 6, but you aren't losing that if you take any of the Dex enhancements from the new system.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahson View Post
    Well day before yesterday her str was 48 today it's 42. Where it went I'd like to know?
    Did you LR? If so, did you switch destinies and then switch back? Any STR from your active destiny would disappear until you do something to force it to recalculate your active ED effects.
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  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahson View Post
    Well day before yesterday her str was 48 today it's 42. Where it went I'd like to know?
    It's possible that you need to reset your ED. I noticed my sorc lost lots of charisma, so I switched from Draconic to something else and back and then it counted the charisma correct.
    Sometimes it's stuff like that.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lithalan View Post
    So far, I love it. Yes, my 18/2 enchantment/conjuration archmage lost her web sla, but she gained so much more by switching to enchantment/necro with the pass: lich form, full archmage slas, more spellpower and Int than before update 19. Sure, I had to spend 9 AP to get my wand increases, but so what? I still had enough AP left over to spend a few in the human tree.

    My Int-based drow rogue assassin gained 4 Int, and a few new toys. Plus, her rapiers can actually do a bit more base damage with dex to damage.

    I'll be respeccing my THF paladin later, probably going 18/2 pally/ftr. I tested the build on Lam and it seemed to work great. There are still enough defensive bonuses for defensive stance without a shield to be worth taking. The PRR alone seems to make it worth it. Plus, adding more heal amp, and some extra dps from the KotC tree is a bonus. Yes, I'm going to lose some Divine Might. I had DM III pre-pass, and once I subtract my +3 str insight bonus from my Cha modifier, I definitely under the necessary +12 modifier to equal DM III. However, it's not by much, and I added some base Str anyway, so I doubt the change will have much impact on my build. We'll see

    Overall, I lost a little bit, but seemed to have gained so much more. Time will tell. I encourage any frustrated person to be patient, spend some time learning the system, and play around with some builds. It's only enhancements. We can reset them pretty easily.

    Edited for grammar. Sigh.
    I did the exact opposite. I switched my 18/2 Pally/Fighter to 20 Pally. I liked the last tier pure Pally Defender ability. I didn't see much gain keeping 2 Levels of Fighter except a few free Feats. Getting rid of TWF line anyway and going only Shield & Board.
    Added Sentinal Feat.

  20. #60
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    I am waiting to pull the trigger on the LR+20 to see how the current build holds up, I may end up going pure Sorc if the trapping aspect of the Rogue splash is a waste. All I did was an enahcenment reset for now to compare pre vs post enh pass on my build before I go full re-spec
    Last edited by sk3l3t0r; 08-20-2013 at 01:39 PM.

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