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  1. #1
    Community Member elg582's Avatar
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    Default Anyone else seriously disappointed?

    I admit it: I'm a stick in the mud. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is one of my mottos. I tend to reject out-of-hand changes that are made just for the sake of making changes.

    That being said, DDO needed some change.

    THAT being said, this wasn't the change we needed.

    So, let's dig into the enhancement revamp; absolutely, it needed to be done, but equally absolutely, there is simply no justification for the way it was done. At a casual glance, I estimate that ~33% of the "abilities" in the collective trees are there simply to occupy space and force us to spend AP on them.

    Now, you could just say, "We don't want you to be able to play a half-elf druid/monk unless you sacrifice the very synergy that would lead you to want to play such a character," but that is obviously stupid. The big question, then, is: Why did you think that having the attitude without explicitly saying what you are doing somehow makes it smart?

    I like being able to access 6 class trees, too; I mean, you can't possibly actually take meaningful abilities from that many, so it's completely useless, but I suppose that it is nice to look at.




    TL;DR: You need to take the filler out of the enhancement trees.

    Oh, and fix the ladder bug already.
    Last edited by IWIronheart; 08-19-2013 at 10:01 PM.
    "You lie down with rats, and the rats run away."

  2. #2
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    Thumbs up I agree totally!!!!!

    Yep You Hit the nail on the head I think that Me and <y 10 Year old will be checking out soon Hate the change!!
    Quote Originally Posted by elg582 View Post
    I admit it: I'm a stick in the mud. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is one of my mottos. I tend to reject out-of-hand changes that are made just for the sake of making changes.

    That being said, DDO needed some change.

    THAT being said, this wasn't the change we needed.

    So, let's dig into the enhancement revamp; absolutely, it needed to be done, but equally absolutely, there is simply no justification for the way it was done. At a casual glance, I estimate that ~33% of the "abilities" in the collective trees are there simply to occupy space and force us to spend AP on them.

    Now, you could just say, "We don't want you to be able to play a half-elf druid/monk unless you sacrifice the very synergy that would lead you to want to play such a character," but that is obviously stupid. The big question, then, is: Why did you think that having the attitude without explicitly saying what you are doing somehow makes it smart?

    I like being able to access 6 class trees, too; I mean, you can't possibly actually take meaningful abilities from that many, so it's completely useless, but I suppose that it is nice to look at.




    TL;DR: You need to take the filler out of the enhancement trees.

    Oh, and fix the ****ing ladder bug already.

  3. #3
    Community Member enochiancub's Avatar
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    Default

    I honestly cannot believe I am saying this, but I'm actually enjoying the heck out of the changes to my main character. Granted only my Artificers and my Bards have I checked out/respecced thus far. So maybe I'll be miffed when I get to all of my other toons.

    That said, I am truly sorry that you're disappointed.

    Main: 18 Artificer, Thelanis

  4. #4
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    Disappointed is mild for the way I feel. My wife's tempest lost 6 points of str. due to the change in enhancements. My aa archer took such a big nurf with slaying arrows being turned into a clicky with a cool down I can't use the words I feel here. Don't even wanna talk about the 6 points of dex he lost! I've been playing this game for close to three years and never complained, but this is just to much.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahson View Post
    Disappointed is mild for the way I feel. My wife's tempest lost 6 points of str. due to the change in enhancements. My aa archer took such a big nurf with slaying arrows being turned into a clicky with a cool down I can't use the words I feel here. Don't even wanna talk about the 6 points of dex he lost! I've been playing this game for close to three years and never complained, but this is just to much.
    the only thing i found so far with my AA is that i can only conjure +1 Arrows instead of +3 before the enhancements (he is L15)

  6. #6
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbeehre View Post
    the only thing i found so far with my AA is that i can only conjure +1 Arrows instead of +3 before the enhancements (he is L15)
    The game only counts the highest of either your arrows or your bow. Unless you're set on using a bow with a low enhancement it won't matter.
    Ryiah | Raeyah | Reikara
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    The game only counts the highest of either your arrows or your bow. Unless you're set on using a bow with a low enhancement it won't matter.
    ok cool thanks for that i did not know that

  8. #8
    Community Member Mudcnd's Avatar
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    Default

    Yeah I am not happy. And to do this when it seemed like the server pop seemed to be a all time low.
    To me it screams NGE, on the plus side my credit card got compromised and I couldn't buy expansion or some otto's boxes and I couldn't be happier about that.
    The enhancements seem to be all filler and just push us into cookie cutter builds, and dilutes DDO's greatest strength the toon customization IMO.

    Brutal timing turbine.

  9. #9
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    I'm only disappointed (so far) with the ridiculous nerf to my AA.

  10. #10
    Hero NancyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elg582 View Post

    TL;DR: You need to take the filler out of the enhancement trees.

    Oh, and fix the ****ing ladder bug already.
    I am not disappointed at all. I think this is well done and the new quests are great too. I'm a happy camper.
    /Nancy

    NancyPDoyle, Dubitable, Bluer, Perisher, NPD, OttoAttack, and others, all on Khyber

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudcnd View Post
    The enhancements seem to be all filler and just push us into cookie cutter builds, and dilutes DDO's greatest strength the toon customization IMO.
    Old enhancements had lots of filler, too.

    You don't think 18/2, 16/2/2, 12/6/2 builds are cookie cutter? That's what pretty much every build was. Pick 1-3 classes, pick a prestige for each 6+ class, take all the requirements for those (no matter how stupid), fill in the rest of the enhancements with whatever.

    Non-standard weapons are more viable now. Quarterstaves, Daggers and Kukris have a lot of new unique and powerful tools. DEX-based builds aren't completely gimp when not wielding a select few weapons. Casters can actually gain more spell power through a caster splash (and it's not based on a stacking bug). Stealthed characters can now run as fast as unstealthed ones with the right build. Toughness is no longer mandatory. Feat requirements were loosened across the board.

    I don't see how you see this as pushing us into cookie cutter builds. Mind explaining?

  12. #12
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    Default A "Mix Up" to be sure

    Well what can I say, I'm equally miffed about some of the things I lost and yet thrilled at some of the new goodies I have. Overall, I'm surprised at how little the changes have rubbed me the wrong way. It might just be because of my play style, I play mostly pure class builds.

    For every ability that was harder to get, there seemed to be two new feat options for me to grab ((The whole doing away with feat prerequisites for the prestige options I checked out were great)) for every ability of mine that was lower by a point or two I seemed to get up to three new clickable abilities, some of which felt like they compared with some ED's.

    For every annoyance I was able to find something gained. It takes a lot of effort to look at "The Big Picture" and ironically, these new tree's might make that harder for some people. But overall, I don't see too much of a balance shift.

    If you were one of those people that pushed boundaries and numbers to their limit through proven avenues, unfortunately, you get hit the hardest. This can cause well earned rage to a fair amount of people.

    To these people I say "Relax". You possess the minds and ingenuity to mix and match, plan and craft builds and synergies that BLOWS-PEOPLES-MINDS. The rules have changed, rules will always change. Now, you have new tools, new paths, and new combinations to experiment with. The same people who are hit the most by these changes are the SAME people who will be first to reap the deepest advantage all new avenues have to offer.

    And you'll still be far ahead people like me, who will be there to support in every way feasible while you strut high and mighty with numbers far above what I'm displaying or dishing, with chat filled to the brim with how you got there, what you're doing, and how maybe I can come closer. And yknow what? Bet there'll also be a few chords of "And I had to do all THIS to fix the changes Turbine made. But I showed em. Take a look at how boss this toon is"

    You can say you are furious and disgruntled, but as long as there are people like me playing this game for you to impress I hardly doubt many of you will be going anywhere. ((I'm sure there will be a few who wanna say "Well with all these changes the servers will be dead and NO ONE will be around."

  13. #13
    The Hatchery
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    My Rogue and my Bard both got great boosts so I'm content.

  14. #14
    Community Member Avenging_Angel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuickSlick79 View Post
    If you were one of those people that pushed boundaries and numbers to their limit through proven avenues, unfortunately, you get hit the hardest. This can cause well earned rage to a fair amount of people.

    To these people I say "Relax". You possess the minds and ingenuity to mix and match, plan and craft builds and synergies that BLOWS-PEOPLES-MINDS. The rules have changed, rules will always change. Now, you have new tools, new paths, and new combinations to experiment with. The same people who are hit the most by these changes are the SAME people who will be first to reap the deepest advantage all new avenues have to offer.
    People who actually came up with "old" builds will be able to minmax again as soon as they get to know the new system. Those are the ones you described.
    And then there are those who take builds from forums and guildies because "they work", find out they are suboptimal now (not because of a "nerf", but because the system changed) and can't be bothered/aren't capable of finding a new way to develop their characters.

    I have the feeling the first kind of people is online, reading the new trees and toying around with their toons, the second kind is on the forum. Overgeneralization ftw.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonulino View Post
    No matter what you post, there is always someone who responds with something like "Unless you are gimped, you should be able to do this with your eyes closed and one hand tied behind your back." It gets a little tiresome.

  15. #15
    Community Member gordgray's Avatar
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    Default Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by elg582 View Post
    I admit it: I'm a stick in the mud. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is one of my mottos. I tend to reject out-of-hand changes that are made just for the sake of making changes.

    That being said, DDO needed some change.

    THAT being said, this wasn't the change we needed.

    So, let's dig into the enhancement revamp; absolutely, it needed to be done, but equally absolutely, there is simply no justification for the way it was done. At a casual glance, I estimate that ~33% of the "abilities" in the collective trees are there simply to occupy space and force us to spend AP on them.

    Now, you could just say, "We don't want you to be able to play a half-elf druid/monk unless you sacrifice the very synergy that would lead you to want to play such a character," but that is obviously stupid. The big question, then, is: Why did you think that having the attitude without explicitly saying what you are doing somehow makes it smart?

    I like being able to access 6 class trees, too; I mean, you can't possibly actually take meaningful abilities from that many, so it's completely useless, but I suppose that it is nice to look at.




    TL;DR: You need to take the filler out of the enhancement trees.

    Oh, and fix the ladder bug already.


    So were was your input during testing WHY Wat for live? just to gripe now.
    The Rogues Guild - Sarlona
    How did that get in here? Hay give that back O that’s yours? Sorry
    Gordgray Gord of gray Hawk Rogues do it from behind

  16. #16
    Community Member Auran82's Avatar
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    I have no issues with the enhancement revamp so far, sure it might make me need to rethink how I build some characters, but there are a heap more options now and it looks like there are some pretty neat builds possible.

  17. #17
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    I took my ranger (archer) out into the back yard and blew out the back of his head some time ago. So that sad dead horse isn't shaming me more in this change.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  18. #18

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    So far, I'm not too pleased. I have a +20 heart in inventory, and I'm completely in the dark with the new trees, and not sure how to make the best of them.

  19. #19
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    what would have been good on Turbines part was allow all people to take part in the beta forums from the get go. communication to everyone and allow feedback not just from Shadowfell subscribers would have been a lot more helpful and people would be much more informed of what was coming. the enhancement change affects everyone and many people are in the dark about what the enhancements do, the descriptions are confusing, don't know which ones are bugged or think they are bugged but they are WAI, costs plat/AS to continuously reset when many people don't know what these new abilities do or will work for their build, etc. we all have to change our builds into something else now and Turbine could have done a better job with this. many of us knew this change was coming, but many of us were totally unprepared for it.

  20. #20
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudcnd View Post
    The enhancements seem to be all filler and just push us into cookie cutter builds, and dilutes DDO's greatest strength the toon customization IMO.
    Oh this is completely wrong... There's all KINDS of new builds now... Much less cookie cutter than the 18/2, 12/6/2 builds of the past.

    I'm actually looking at splashing 2 levels of cleric on my CHA-based bard/rogue instead of fighter for Divine Might... There's all kinds of new possibilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

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