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  1. #21
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    I'm hoping someone opens a "DDO Classic" pirate server - I'm letting my subs expire after this ****. This system really messed up most of my characters [mostly mid-level 10-16]: Cleric now sucks as does AA, Archmage lost 2nd line of school concentration, SLAs now cost more SP, ... Just too much change for the worse. Nah, ya can't have my stuff, I'm just going premium instead of subbing - I've got almost 10k TP saved, so I'm not losing much.

  2. #22
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    I'm disappointed by the bug that gave my main character -12 Action Points.

    Other than that my general feelings are positive.

    I agree that there is a lot of filler and some trees do depend on you spending points on stuff you don't want to get the stuff that you do. This could be improved upon. Other than this I like a lot of the changes. I like the added possibilities for Dex based builds, especially the Acrobat Thief - My level 4 Acrobat Thief is a blast to play.

    As I play more I'm sure I'll find more stuff that I like/dislike.

  3. #23
    Community Member HernandoCortez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahson View Post
    Disappointed is mild for the way I feel. My wife's tempest lost 6 points of str. due to the change in enhancements. My aa archer took such a big nurf with slaying arrows being turned into a clicky with a cool down I can't use the words I feel here. Don't even wanna talk about the 6 points of dex he lost! I've been playing this game for close to three years and never complained, but this is just to much.
    *** is wrong with you people, Turbine?!

    You took away slaying arrows, the only thing that made Arcane Archers have DPS?! Are you guys nuts?! Do you hate archers that much? Rangers needed some upgrades not nerfs!
    My main is an Arcane Archer, how am I supposed to play him now?
    EXTREME PREJUDICE™ - by Turbine.
    GHOSTBANE™ - by Turbine.
    LMAO! M...D...? Seriously? - You have received an infraction...

  4. #24
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    Angry Very disappointed

    I have played DnD for over 30 years, from home to convention competitions. I am not only disappointed by the new changes, I am concerned about a steady drift away from a game written for players. Not just role playing a back story or origin, but even playing a consistent character. Seriously, this is not the same game my frineds and I log into so we can have fun. It's becoming an accounting nightmare where Turbine, even with direct feedback against the changes in beta, basically tells the players to suck it up.

    "The new D&D is too rule intensive. It's relegated the Dungeon Master to being an entertainer rather than master of the game. It's done away with the archetypes, focused on nothing but combat and character power, lost the group cooperative aspect, bastardized the class-based system, and resembles a comic-book superheroes game more than a fantasy RPG where a player can play any alignment desired, not just lawful good. " -Gary Gygax

    Turbine, do you even have any role players in your planning group?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gordgray View Post
    So were was your input during testing WHY Wat for live? just to gripe now.
    Some of us would love to of been part of the Lam scene to test it out, but from what I have read there, no one listened to them on (the pre reqs) within the tree selections, didnt move one ounce towards recognizing the hard work that those individuals did at recognizing flaws and downgrades to needless enchantments for specific race/classes either.
    So no, we play the game to have fun and enjoyment. Work all week and get time and money to spend here. This may work out, as turbine hopes as they sit back and pray that we all stay around so they can ignore us as well as the guys that tested this before live, and just move on to selling more junk in the store.

    ? and there will be new arrivals that are in for a ride of their lives

  6. #26
    Community Member anto_capone's Avatar
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    I've only tested a few of my toons, and so far I liked the results of the enhancement change. Lost some things but seemed to gain more overall.

    I can't believe my 18/1/1 tempest actually got a boost either. I am marking the day on the calendar.

  7. #27
    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Have yet to run any of my characters in quests since i spent all of yesterday evening redoing their enhancements & LRing a couple, but aside from a couple of characters (deep splash multiclasses) who can't fit in all the abilities I'd want, I've found most of them to look fairly similar & in a lot of places appear to be more powerful than they previously were - and all of them have a far more distinct & personalised feel, rather than being fairly generic. Looking forward to running a couple of them tonight.
    I don't mean to come across as unsympathetic - but I am, so I do.

  8. #28
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahson View Post
    Disappointed is mild for the way I feel. My wife's tempest lost 6 points of str. due to the change in enhancements. My aa archer took such a big nurf with slaying arrows being turned into a clicky with a cool down I can't use the words I feel here. Don't even wanna talk about the 6 points of dex he lost! I've been playing this game for close to three years and never complained, but this is just to much.
    I have to ask. How did your wife's tempest lose any strength? Rangers had no enhancements for strength before. Now they actually have some. And how did you lose 6 points of dex? Heck you can take both dex and strength now. Dex from deepwood and strength from tempest.

    I wouldn't advise it though, because the other enhancements now are way better than stat enhancements.

    Everyone was telling me my kensei would be gimped unless i had monk levels. That turned out to be way off. He's quite a lot more powerful now than he was before. Of course he has a level of barbarian. Before, i got almost nothing from that except a parlor trick version of rage. Now he has an incredibly useful rage. More power attack. More versatility.

    Don't have an arcane archer now, but have before and will again. Slayer arrows that i can control when they happen. Yeah, i'm for that. I'm not a big fan of random low percentage procs.

  9. #29
    Community Member Avenging_Angel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonNomad View Post
    "DDO is meant to be the same game as pen and paper D&D" -Gary Gygax
    No, it's not and it can't be. The sooner people realize they require a different approach, the more they can enjoy the game and/or start looking for something they like more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonulino View Post
    No matter what you post, there is always someone who responds with something like "Unless you are gimped, you should be able to do this with your eyes closed and one hand tied behind your back." It gets a little tiresome.

  10. #30
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonNomad View Post
    I have played DnD for over 30 years, from home to convention competitions. I am not only disappointed by the new changes, I am concerned about a steady drift away from a game written for players. Not just role playing a back story or origin, but even playing a consistent character. Seriously, this is not the same game my frineds and I log into so we can have fun. It's becoming an accounting nightmare where Turbine, even with direct feedback against the changes in beta, basically tells the players to suck it up.

    "The new D&D is too rule intensive. It's relegated the Dungeon Master to being an entertainer rather than master of the game. It's done away with the archetypes, focused on nothing but combat and character power, lost the group cooperative aspect, bastardized the class-based system, and resembles a comic-book superheroes game more than a fantasy RPG where a player can play any alignment desired, not just lawful good. " -Gary Gygax

    Turbine, do you even have any role players in your planning group?
    role players are a very very very very niche crowd in mmo's. Unless you have millions of customers like blizzard etc you don't put any resources into them because you will not get your money back out. Even blizzards rp servers make ddo servers look populated.

    Just accept that mmo's are not for role playing and you'll be a happier gamer either with mmo's or with whatever other hobby then takes up your time.

  11. #31
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    Stats are about the only place you can unequivocally say everyone's losing ground in the EP....since the stat bonuses are all at least Tier 3 and above - plus, there's just so much more to spend your 80 AP on than there was before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    The game only counts the highest of either your arrows or your bow. Unless you're set on using a bow with a low enhancement it won't matter.
    Considering AA get a bonus to the enhancement of bows they wield, even using a low-rated bow wouldn't even matter. They've essentially rolled the old +1-5 arrow bonuses onto the bow (nonstacking, whichever is greater, just like the arrows were). A full-fledged AA will turn any bow into +8. Gives you the option of using non-returning arrows (ie Xoriat or Deneith DR-breakers) without sacrificing your enhancement bonus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zirun View Post
    Old enhancements had lots of filler, too.
    Yeah, no more Improved Skill prereqs, definitely an improvement. Yes, you do have to take some fluff to pad out your first tier or two, but A) you did before, and B) the fluff now is still better than the fluff then.

    I think you just notice it more now because there's so much more to fill towards. You're not just fluffing up to reach one or two PrEs, you have to fluff up 3 or 4 or 5 trees at once now.

    That being said, certain trees are noticeably more barren in the first two tiers - which makes taking a /1 or /2 splash in those classes a lot less appealing.

    Quote Originally Posted by HernandoCortez View Post
    You took away slaying arrows, the only thing that made Arcane Archers have DPS?! ...
    My main is an Arcane Archer, how am I supposed to play him now?
    Are you really suggesting AAs had better DPS before the EP than now? You actually have a rotation of +3[w] attacks you can cycle through. You have essentially universal DR breaking. You have DWS enhancements to go with your AA. You have regenerating temp SPs, if you have spells/SLAs from cross-classing. You can go Elf for dex-to-dmg and not have to rely on Bow Strength. And try Slaying Arrows with MS+Adrenaline, too - that'll answer your complaints

    You're not just limited to "spam Slayer Arrows with MS/10KS" as your only raison d'etre anymore.

  12. #32
    Community Member toaftoaf's Avatar
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    Default that 70's show smoke circle

    once again a "that 70's show smoke circle" was how they planed this big pile of mess

  13. #33
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    While I've committed myself to seeing this through and giving it a chance I'm finding more negatives than positives and often scratching my head wondering what (if) they were thinking. I'm trying to keep my cool but its becoming increasingly difficult. So in case I get cranky I'll try to temper any future rage with some glowing praise:

    Turbine, if you're reading this please please PLEASE listen to this following statement and take it to heart. Character versatility and the combat system are what put DDO leaps and bounds above all the other dregs of MMOs out there. They are what make this game stand out and are the absolute BEST thing about DDO. I'm sure most of us who have played for years here feel the same way. Sure there are a lot of technical problems and bugs with the game but we put up with them because DDO is something special.

    What would fix a lot of my grievances with enchancements would be to reduce the overall point spent requirements, especially on the bottom couple tiers. My biggest gripe is being force-fed useless abilities and clickies that I'll never use. Also if abilities general to the class were repeated in multiple panels it would offer much more freedom in building a character. Which has always been the strength of DDO vs other MMOs. I don't know about anyone else, but versatility is half of the reason I've played DDO so long.

    For example I'm currently looking at Rogue's "Wand and Scroll Mastery" which is a second tier ability in the Mechanic Panel, costs 2 ap and has a point spent requirement of 5. So basically I need to spend 9 ap to get what was once 3 ap worth of abilities.

    No. That is complete and utter bull. How many rogue's scroll heal vs how many rogues get ANY use out of the mechanic line? I'm wondering if its this messed up for other classes with multiple prestige lines. I'm kind of glad I don't have a ranger or a bard atm.

    Its almost like Turbine took offense to people not playing what were useless classes before and are forcing the issue. Instead of being heavy handed about it, just make them more appealing. Don't overshoot the mark. The old adage of leading a horse to water comes to mind.

    Over all I think there is potential for something great here. If you would remove all point requirements for tier 2. Level requirement is fine the way it is. Make the core enhancements FREE and unlocked with # of points spent in that certain panel. Capstones will be remain here but will not be free. Increase the cost of some abilities especially the more powerful ones (Touch of Death, Assassinate etc) to make up for the free cores. Remove clutter: we don't NEED 50 new clickies we don't WANT 50 new clickies. Take certain core abilities that all prestige lines use and enjoy and put them in multiple panels and no, they shouldn't stack.

    Anyway, that's how I'd do it anyway. You get your shiny new interface and we retain the freedom to build a character how we want.
    Last edited by XavierElanor; 08-20-2013 at 04:38 AM.

  14. #34
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahson View Post
    Disappointed is mild for the way I feel. My wife's tempest lost 6 points of str. due to the change in enhancements. My aa archer took such a big nurf with slaying arrows being turned into a clicky with a cool down I can't use the words I feel here. Don't even wanna talk about the 6 points of dex he lost! I've been playing this game for close to three years and never complained, but this is just to much.
    6 points of strength? I don't know how.
    Ditto on dex in regards to the AA.
    Slaying arrows, no comment. That plain sucks, I will admit.

    Now, in regards to tempest: You can take 2 str from enhancements, along with (+1 to hit, +1 dmg (if dual wielding))*4, each costing 2 ap. Each of those 4 enhancements is worth 2 str, for 2 ap - or 1 str/ap (only applicable for TWF though). Add on +2 str from enhancements, you're sitting at the equivalent of 10 str. How you lost 6 in the first place is beyond me. That means you had 8 str from enhancements? I wanna know how!

  15. #35
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    I really do think its just the first couple tiers that are the real problem with "fluff". Its where they've stuck too much of the situational/non-practical stuff (like Wand Heightening, etc.), too much of the pointless passives (+1 diplo/intim/haggle etc.), too many things that are incompatible with your final build (like stances that don't stack with better stances, higher in the tree).

    Move stats to Tier 1 on every tree that has them, and make them a single 2-tier enhancement. That's 4 points you can spend that's never "fluff". That solves both the problem of having nothing good to spend points on in T1, and the problem of not being able to boost class stats as easily as you could in the old system, when you got at least +2 to two class stats with no prereq.

  16. #36
    Community Member RapkintheRanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbeehre View Post
    the only thing i found so far with my AA is that i can only conjure +1 Arrows instead of +3 before the enhancements (he is L15)

    i thought that too ... but noo

    conjur your +1 arros, equip a bow and then look at the bow description. you can have + 3, 4 etc...

    my pinion says "this bow has a +6 enhancement from acrcane arcehry (which does not stack with the bows bonus)

    moonbow effects and otehr things are also listed if the bow is equipped. (unequip the bow and it has a different description. kidnda cool



    remember before u had to spend points to get 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 arrows.... (which were kinda pointless given that the bow you were using would likely have the same or higher bonus).... well, now u can jsut get +1 arrows and save those other points for other things



    nice

  17. #37
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    Not really, no.

    So far, my FvS seems 10x more powerful than she was before the pass. Well, maybe not 10x, but she is much stronger now than previously. In fact, she's stronger now at 15 than she was at 24 in her previous life.

    Regarding the "nerf" to AAs, they can now run two imbues at the same time. Looking through the changes yesterday, I realized I could quite literally reduce my bow stash to one bow, not that I would, and still be quite successful with it. Is metal DR a problem for you, then switch on Metalline Arrows. Fighting hoards of skeletons, but never got your Silver Flame bow? There's an imbue for that, and you can take it at level 2 Ranger, not sure about Elven AA yet, as I haven't got one to test it out on. Overall, I don't feel "gimped" by the changes at all. I'll know more about Elven AA once I get around to messing with my druid AA build. It does seem, however, like it would be more viable now than previously, or, at least easier to build around.

    The UI will make it easier on new players, and those players that are less "build savvy" to see what they need to do to get where they want to be, and it makes it easier for them to see where they want to end up. Also gone are the days of "you can be AA or Tempest, but not both". Although you can't max out both, you could, if you wanted to, take enough of both to make them effective, it's not like the free Ranger feats went out with the pass, and you can now go fully dex based with Weapon Finesse, and gain Dex to damage with any Finesse-able weapon. That's a gain, in my book, not a nerf.

  18. #38
    2016 DDO Players Council Lithalan's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    So far, I love it. Yes, my 18/2 enchantment/conjuration archmage lost her web sla, but she gained so much more by switching to enchantment/necro with the pass: lich form, full archmage slas, more spellpower and Int than before update 19. Sure, I had to spend 9 AP to get my wand increases, but so what? I still had enough AP left over to spend a few in the human tree.

    My Int-based drow rogue assassin gained 4 Int, and a few new toys. Plus, her rapiers can actually do a bit more base damage with dex to damage.

    I'll be respeccing my THF paladin later, probably going 18/2 pally/ftr. I tested the build on Lam and it seemed to work great. There are still enough defensive bonuses for defensive stance without a shield to be worth taking. The PRR alone seems to make it worth it. Plus, adding more heal amp, and some extra dps from the KotC tree is a bonus. Yes, I'm going to lose some Divine Might. I had DM III pre-pass, and once I subtract my +3 str insight bonus from my Cha modifier, I definitely under the necessary +12 modifier to equal DM III. However, it's not by much, and I added some base Str anyway, so I doubt the change will have much impact on my build. We'll see

    Overall, I lost a little bit, but seemed to have gained so much more. Time will tell. I encourage any frustrated person to be patient, spend some time learning the system, and play around with some builds. It's only enhancements. We can reset them pretty easily.

    Edited for grammar. Sigh.

  19. #39
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xendor View Post
    Some of us would love to of been part of the Lam scene to test it out, but from what I have read there, no one listened to them on (the pre reqs) within the tree selections, didnt move one ounce towards recognizing the hard work that those individuals did at recognizing flaws and downgrades to needless enchantments for specific race/classes either.
    You read wrong. The devs made a ton of changes based on feedback. The biggest one was giving us up to 6 class trees instead of 3. They changed the AP costs all over the place. The new system is actually quite good BECAUSE the devs listened to feedback.

    Did some bugs that were caught on Lam make it to Live? Yes... But the devs did make a lot of changes and listened to their players.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  20. #40
    Hero BurnerD's Avatar
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    I worked through the enhancements on a couple of my L25 characters last night.

    I had not spent any time on LLama so this was my first real look at them.

    My initial thoughts are positive. I like the system.

    I did not spend a ton of time analyzing every enhancement yet, and do not doubt some tweaks will need to be made, but overall I like the direction.

    Time will tell.....
    Argonessenn -Officer of Storm Shadow-
    Olen Anteres

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