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  1. #41

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    I just noticed, why do your build say to raise constitution and not dex? 16 constitution is pretty high imo and you are recommending to raise it more?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebris-Niatellim View Post
    I just noticed, why do your build say to raise constitution and not dex? 16 constitution is pretty high imo and you are recommending to raise it more?
    A dead ranger cannot kill anything. You are a 28pt build without access to most HP enhancing gear. My recommendation will allow you to get Epic Toughness at L21 or L24 should you get MOTU. Your highest level character is L9. This means that you will be doing higher level adventures for the first time without meta knowledge of the game. I really think you need as much as an HP buffer as you can get. You will be able to up DEX a bit via the enhancement trees.

  3. #43
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfhild View Post
    As for STR>DEX, yes I agree this is true for a VIP/Premium TR'ed toon. But he is not going to have Primal Scream or Titan's Grip etc.
    While that's true, Ram's Might + Rage spell is +4 STR right of the bat; RM is one of the first spells rgrs get and Rage is readily available from potions or clickies (or friendly arcanes). So, almost right off the bat, he's be able to close the STR / DEX gap despite being an elven rgr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    While that's true, Ram's Might + Rage spell is +4 STR right of the bat; RM is one of the first spells rgrs get and Rage is readily available from potions or clickies (or friendly arcanes). So, almost right off the bat, he's be able to close the STR / DEX gap despite being an elven rgr.
    I agree completely. He will get +2 Damage (translated from +4 STR) from a Ram's + Rage combo.
    But he also can invest in DEX very easily in his available AP trees and has already invested 1 in DEX in Elf under my build suggestion and can spend 2 AP to get another pt of DEX since I left 14 or 15pts unspent in what I suggested.
    That leaves a difference of +1 damage should he spend 2 AP for another pt of DEX..
    Also note my build included fighter levels.: he gets +2 dam from Weapon Specialization, and if he spends a few points in Kensai he can get another +1 damage for 2 AP.
    So leaving out all AP expenditures, what I suggested (i.e. Fighter Wep Spec) equals the damage output of Rams+Rage but provides a little more to hit and also provides better Evasion.
    Add a few AP expenditures in DEX or Kensai and he gets more damage and better Evasion.
    Also realize that to hit may be something we scoff at with our mega-buffed stats, but it is a valid consideration for him. DEX provides better to hit because Bows are a DEX to hit weapon to begin with.

  5. #45

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    Well I currently have +5 dex ring and a +5 wis goggle (best I can for my level). I did raise dex the first two times because I didn't notice it said to raise con until I started looking it over to see if I missed anything.

    Using Rams Might (since it gives damage as well), Holy Bow (lvl 8), I can hit 30~ base with 10~ damage with force and holy dmg combined so around 40~ per shot. So hitting like 80 dmg per multishot. Crits range from 90~100. The displacement is also really really good, tons of times I would of died without the displace proc. Also I really like the heal ^_^ healing 30ish~ every heal light wound cast. Shadow Walk is good for when I realize I cant take on the situation so I shadow walk to get out of it. Havent really used invisibility yet but the +20 hide check will be nice and lets me focus more on move silently (since I'm switching between them every level since I am raising UMD as well.)

    My melee is lackluster tho, hitting about 20~ dmg and 30 ish with the elemental procs etc.

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    Invis as buff for your sneak skills is going to be come a little more important when you get L11 Ranger. At that point you get Improved Precise Shot. Being able to sneak up unnoticed on a group of mobs and position yourself precisely to get as many as possible in a row will allow you to hit them all. As for raising DEX unstead of CON, no big deal. If you are going to TR this toon at 20, or 25 if you get MOTU, you will have enough game knowledge to make your own choices on your next life.

  7. #47
    Community Member 96th_Malice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfhild View Post
    A dead ranger cannot kill anything. You are a 28pt build without access to most HP enhancing gear. My recommendation will allow you to get Epic Toughness at L21 or L24 should you get MOTU. Your highest level character is L9. This means that you will be doing higher level adventures for the first time without meta knowledge of the game. I really think you need as much as an HP buffer as you can get. You will be able to up DEX a bit via the enhancement trees.
    Sorry gonna disagree on this post

    Epic toughness on a ranged ranger is not what he / she should be picking. Combat archery and or Overwhelming Crit.should be your choices.

    I'm not in anyway saying that HP isn't important .... Just not as important as being a ranger first.
    " Elize Ryd - Officer @ Band of Gypsys "


    " Trapped in my skin - See the nexus in my dreams - But will you bury me within? "

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    Quote Originally Posted by 96th_Malice View Post
    Sorry gonna disagree on this post

    Epic toughness on a ranged ranger is not what he / she should be picking. Combat archery and or Overwhelming Crit.should be your choices.

    I'm not in anyway saying that HP isn't important .... Just not as important as being a ranger first.
    But you are saying that HP isn't important if you are advising him to get both CA and OC since he would need to start his character with STR and DEX at 17 and CON at 10, put all his skillups in DEX and STR and farm until he gets enough money or lucky enough to get a +2 STR and +2 DEX tome. Are you really suggesting a new undergeared player with very little meta knowledge of the game start with CON 10?

    Btw I did say include CA in my build.

  9. #49
    Community Member 96th_Malice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfhild View Post
    But you are saying that HP isn't important if you are advising him to get both CA and OC since he would need to start his character with STR and DEX at 17 and CON at 10, put all his skillups in DEX and STR and farm until he gets enough money or lucky enough to get a +2 STR and +2 DEX tome. Are you really suggesting a new undergeared player with very little meta knowledge of the game start with CON 10?

    Btw I did say include CA in my build.
    18 Elven archers ( and counting ) .... I like to think I've got things figured out pretty good by now

    I would start con 12 .... Not 10 as agreed hp is important although it doesn't matter how many hp you have if the healer next to you is horrible.

    Tomes are much easier to come by and are MUCH cheaper on the AH than before.

    And for the record ..... We were all under geared at one time with zero knowledge of the game .... We all did fine. Water works hasn't become any more difficult ( I don't think )

    Also ..... I'm pretty sure he will have at least 4 other able bodies running quests with him and will probably get into a guild more than willing to help him out with gear / plat / tomes etc.

    To the OP .... If you have not built your toon yet, c'mon over to Khyber. If you can get past the drama it's actually a great server. I'll get your archer outfitted all the way to lvl 25

    Last but not lrast ... to my CON addicted co part ..... The only thing more useless than a dead ranger, is a ranger with a lot of hit points that can't hit or kill anything

    Talk soon
    " Elize Ryd - Officer @ Band of Gypsys "


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  10. #50
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    I'm with 96th Malice on this. I usually build for DPS first, survivability second, though the split varies. I've posted both a STR build focused almost solely on DPS and a DEX build which places more emphasis on survivability (Shadow DMs, Emp Heal, higher AC & Reflex); both start with CON 14, which IMHO is fine for an 28-pt elven rgr - more than that is overkill. If you feel you need a bit more HPs, squeeze in a Toughness feat (or two); or pick a less squishy race.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 96th_Malice View Post
    18 Elven archers ( and counting ) .... I like to think I've got things figured out pretty good by now
    I am sure you do. But you are not the subject of conversation.
    I would start con 12 .... Not 10 as agreed hp is important although it doesn't matter how many hp you have if the healer next to you is horrible.
    Ok then he would need +3 tomes in STR and DEX in order to get both OC and CA.
    Tomes are much easier to come by and are MUCH cheaper on the AH than before.
    I agree Tomes are easier to come by in loot since they introduced the upgrade tomes but they are still rare. As for the AH,actually at the moment there is a scarcity of tomes on the AH because everyone building Iconics is buying them and the price has gone up. Furthermore, a lot of looted Tomes end up on the Shard exchange which puts them further out of his reach, Furthermore if stat Tomes are so easily acquired as you suggest, why does the OP not have a single one at L9? His actual experience seems to contradict your statements.
    And for the record ..... We were all under geared at one time with zero knowledge of the game .... We all did fine. Water works hasn't become any more difficult ( I don't think )
    Umm, "We all did fine"? Can you really speak for everyone? If we all did fine back then, why were CON dumped Elves the brunt of many a joke back then?

    Also ..... I'm pretty sure he will have at least 4 other able bodies running quests with him and will probably get into a guild more than willing to help him out with gear / plat / tomes etc.
    I hope he does find himself in that situation but it is not a given and it is actually harder to get into a good guild as a 28pt F2Per than it was to get guilded back in the day when everyone was on a level playing field. And judging from the OPs posts, it seems he is doing a fair amount of soloing so perhaps it is better to listen to what the OP actually is saying than assuming his experience will be identical to our own.

    Last but not lrast ... to my CON addicted co part ..... The only thing more useless than a dead ranger, is a ranger with a lot of hit points that can't hit or kill anything
    Uhm, why are you assuming he cannot kill anything? Please provide actual raw numbers that indicate that he will be doing significantly lower damage at his level of play with the build I offer. All that has been suggested is the +2 damage from Ram's&Rage which actually would be compensated just by allocating the points in STR that a STR/DEX based build would require entirely to DEX. And by going DEX he also gets far better evasion.
    The OP does not have access to Primal Scream, Titan's Grip, Profane +STR, etc. He can get OC at L21 or L24, but there is no guarantee he will own MOTU at that point rendering the whole issue of post-20 levelling a non issue. He is better off TRing at 20 or 21 and building a 34 pt toon who will have access to more Adventure Packs from farmed favour. At that point, all the advice you offered is perfectly valid. But now is not that point imho.
    Last edited by Alfhild; 09-04-2013 at 02:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebris-Niatellim View Post
    My melee is lackluster tho, hitting about 20~ dmg and 30 ish with the elemental procs etc.
    What melee weapons are you currently using?

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    I just leveled a dex based elf ranger to 20. I think it's better than a str one for a new/casual player. I started with the following:
    Str 8
    Dex 20
    Con 14
    Int 10
    Wis 12
    Char 8

    I went with full DwS and till haste boost in tempest and the blunt and force arrows in AA. Apart from that I got grace and dragonmarks from the elf tree.

    Highlights of the build are:
    a) I have much better reflexes and some extra AC than my str based ranger.
    b) Assuming +2 tomes, if I started with Str 16 and Dex 16 I would have needed 3 more points in dex to get to 21 for combat archery. So my str would be 20 at cap, adding buffs which I usually use... it will be around 24 (adding +4 from RM and rage). Comparing this to a dex based build where I have 27 dex I think I do more dmg than a str one.
    c) Due to grace I also get +3% doublestrike, +3% doubleshot, +3% dodge, and bypass 3% dodge for 1 more ap and +4 hit and dmg with the weapons I use in the pre reqs.

  14. #54
    Community Member 96th_Malice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    I'm with 96th Malice on this. I usually build for DPS first, survivability second, though the split varies. I've posted both a STR build focused almost solely on DPS and a DEX build which places more emphasis on survivability (Shadow DMs, Emp Heal, higher AC & Reflex); both start with CON 14, which IMHO is fine for an 28-pt elven rgr - more than that is overkill. If you feel you need a bit more HPs, squeeze in a Toughness feat (or two); or pick a less squishy race.
    Agreed .... DEX or STR

    Ive yet to see a CON AA build as of yet. What you lack in HPs, you make up everywhere else.
    " Elize Ryd - Officer @ Band of Gypsys "


    " Trapped in my skin - See the nexus in my dreams - But will you bury me within? "

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    Community Member 96th_Malice's Avatar
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    Sory not sure how tobreak up the post on the wifes iPad so I'll aswer within your text starting with " ++ "

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfhild View Post
    I am sure you do. But you are not the subject of conversation.

    ++ Nope but the OP did ask for help ... I ( we ? ) provided that

    Ok then he would need +3 tomes in STR and DEX in order to get both OC and CA.

    ++ Agreed

    I agree Tomes are easier to come by in loot since they introduced the upgrade tomes but they are still rare. As for the AH,actually at the moment there is a scarcity of tomes on the AH because everyone building Iconics is buying them and the price has gone up. Furthermore, a lot of looted Tomes end up on the Shard exchange which puts them further out of his reach, Furthermore if stat Tomes are so easily acquired as you suggest, why does the OP not have a single one at L9? His actual experience seems to contradict your statements.

    ++ Luck of the draw ! Maybe run more quests is all I can say I guess ??

    Umm, "We all did fine"? Can you really speak for everyone? If we all did fine back then, why were CON dumped Elves the brunt of many a joke back then?

    ++ Well maybe I cant speak for you BUT I am sure 95% of us did fine. Wait wait wait ,.... You werent a CON dumped Elf that everyone made fun of were you ?? hehe that explains the overkill on CON now !

    I hope he does find himself in that situation but it is not a given and it is actually harder to get into a good guild as a 28pt F2Per than it was to get guilded back in the day when everyone was on a level playing field.

    ++ Agreed

    And judging from the OPs posts, it seems he is doing a fair amount of soloing so perhaps it is better to listen to what the OP actually is saying than assuming his experience will be identical to our own.

    ++ Agreed as well

    Uhm, why are you assuming he cannot kill anything? Please provide actual raw numbers that indicate that he will be doing significantly lower damage at his level of play with the build I offer. All that has been suggested is the +2 damage from Ram's&Rage which actually would be compensated just by allocating the points in STR that a STR/DEX based build would require entirely to DEX. And by going DEX he also gets far better evasion.

    ++ I dont need to provide raw data to know what works. CON build AAs dont ( not as well as the STR or DEX ones do anyways ) ...... not to mention at any time if his hit points get low he can click on multiple cure spells he has availalble ... there we go ... CON rebuffed

    The OP does not have access to Primal Scream, Titan's Grip, Profane +STR, etc. He can get OC at L21 or L24, but there is no guarantee he will own MOTU at that point rendering the whole issue of post-20 levelling a non issue.

    ++ Agreed again !

    He is better off TRing at 20 or 21 and building a 34 pt toon who will have access to more Adventure Packs from farmed favour. At that point, all the advice you offered is perfectly valid. But now is not that point imho.

    ++ Also agreed BUT still only starting with a 14 CON
    I hope you are taking no offence over me not agreeing with you .. you have your opinion of what works and I have mine.

    Mine are meant for killing before stuff gets close to me ...... not having it get within melee range and beat on my HP
    " Elize Ryd - Officer @ Band of Gypsys "


    " Trapped in my skin - See the nexus in my dreams - But will you bury me within? "

    Amaranthe - The NeXuS

  16. #56
    Community Member 96th_Malice's Avatar
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    Sorry not sure how to break up the post on the wifes iPad so I'll answer within your text starting with " ++ "

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfhild View Post
    I am sure you do. But you are not the subject of conversation.

    ++ Nope but the OP did ask for help ... I ( we ? ) provided that

    Ok then he would need +3 tomes in STR and DEX in order to get both OC and CA.

    ++ Agreed

    I agree Tomes are easier to come by in loot since they introduced the upgrade tomes but they are still rare. As for the AH,actually at the moment there is a scarcity of tomes on the AH because everyone building Iconics is buying them and the price has gone up. Furthermore, a lot of looted Tomes end up on the Shard exchange which puts them further out of his reach, Furthermore if stat Tomes are so easily acquired as you suggest, why does the OP not have a single one at L9? His actual experience seems to contradict your statements.

    ++ Luck of the draw ! Maybe run more quests is all I can say I guess ??

    Umm, "We all did fine"? Can you really speak for everyone? If we all did fine back then, why were CON dumped Elves the brunt of many a joke back then?

    ++ Well maybe I cant speak for you BUT I am sure 95% of us did fine. Wait wait wait ,.... You werent a CON dumped Elf that everyone made fun of were you ?? hehe that explains the overkill on CON now !

    I hope he does find himself in that situation but it is not a given and it is actually harder to get into a good guild as a 28pt F2Per than it was to get guilded back in the day when everyone was on a level playing field.

    ++ Agreed

    And judging from the OPs posts, it seems he is doing a fair amount of soloing so perhaps it is better to listen to what the OP actually is saying than assuming his experience will be identical to our own.

    ++ Agreed as well

    Uhm, why are you assuming he cannot kill anything? Please provide actual raw numbers that indicate that he will be doing significantly lower damage at his level of play with the build I offer. All that has been suggested is the +2 damage from Ram's&Rage which actually would be compensated just by allocating the points in STR that a STR/DEX based build would require entirely to DEX. And by going DEX he also gets far better evasion.

    ++ I dont need to provide raw data to know what works. CON build AAs dont ( not as well as the STR or DEX ones do anyways ) ...... not to mention at any time if his hit points get low he can click on multiple cure spells he has availalble ... there we go ... CON rebuffed

    The OP does not have access to Primal Scream, Titan's Grip, Profane +STR, etc. He can get OC at L21 or L24, but there is no guarantee he will own MOTU at that point rendering the whole issue of post-20 levelling a non issue.

    ++ Agreed again !

    He is better off TRing at 20 or 21 and building a 34 pt toon who will have access to more Adventure Packs from farmed favour. At that point, all the advice you offered is perfectly valid. But now is not that point imho.

    ++ Also agreed BUT still only starting with a 14 CON
    I hope you are taking no offence over me not agreeing with you .. you have your opinion of what works and I have mine.

    My archers are meant for killing before stuff gets close to me ...... not having it get within melee range and beat on my HP
    " Elize Ryd - Officer @ Band of Gypsys "


    " Trapped in my skin - See the nexus in my dreams - But will you bury me within? "

    Amaranthe - The NeXuS

  17. #57
    Community Member 96th_Malice's Avatar
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    Sorry for the double post .... the second one was an edit to fix typos and such

    not sure why they both posted
    " Elize Ryd - Officer @ Band of Gypsys "


    " Trapped in my skin - See the nexus in my dreams - But will you bury me within? "

    Amaranthe - The NeXuS

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfhild View Post
    What melee weapons are you currently using?
    I was using some two rapiers. 1. Adamantine Tooth (I think that's what its called). 2. Gwylans Blade (secondary).

    Lvl 6 tho so that might explain my **** dmg.

    Also to clarify, and maybe clarify for myself. The higher tome drops are post U19 right? Because I NEVER got one pre U19 but got like 3, +1 tomes in a week after U19. The reason why I have no tomes on my lvl 9 is because I didn't play on it post-U19 because every enhancement setup I tested ended up with me being gimp, or a archer whose sole purpose was to paralyze monsters. +2 tomes may be within reach if I get lucky and get good enough gear from loot so I don't have to shop in the AH. But I have yet to see a +3 tome on the AH...correction, once and it was like 10x the price of a +2. Also there seems to be more upgrade from +1 to +2 tomes which requires a purchase od 100k +1 tome then a 200k +2 upgrade tome.

    Also on the subject of guilds. I can never seem to find a active friendly guild. They are either too small to be of help outside lvl 5 (Since I outlevel them) or too large to get a genuine conversation with anyone. Considering I'm the only one of my friends who play DDO because I love it for its adventure theme (Everyone else quit or they only play it occasionally since 2 other friends are playing it at the same time), I usually solo or join random groups which I quickly depart from since they dissolve rather quickly.

    So I would love to take your offer to play on Khyber, its kind of boring alone anyways :P, beside I like having a variety of characters to play on because I enjoy each of their unique aspects and creating new characters with different themes.

    Also please don't argue (: ( ) I'm happy you guys are all offering me advice. I'll try out the other build on Khyber and continue the build on ghallanda. Testing things out never did me harm...(although some things I would never test out XD like drugs...or a Wizard Barbarian Cleric )




    +

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    Quote Originally Posted by 96th_Malice View Post
    ++ Also agreed BUT still only starting with a 14 CON
    And I agree that on his second life he does need as high a CON because he will have better gear or (if he gets the right Adventure Packs) far better gear as well as game knowledge. But if you are going to give him a helping hand on Kyber then I will leave the advice in your hands.

  20. #60
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebris-Niatellim View Post
    I was using some two rapiers. 1. Adamantine Tooth (I think that's what its called). 2. Gwylans Blade (secondary).
    Gwylan's Blade is short sword, not rapier. That matters if you took the Aerenal enhs.

    If you're following one of my rgr builds, you could swap one of your ranged feats for Power Atk to help boost your melee DPS. But if you're following Alfhild's, your base STR is too low (10); Precision and Improved Crit are your only options.

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