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Thread: sorcs

  1. #1
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Default sorcs

    I haven't had a chance to log in to check things out yet (work) but can anyone confirm that fleshy pure Sorcs been heavily nerfed? Lose lots of HP (on class/race combo that can't afford to lose HP), lose spell crits chance (lore items halved, 1% less available in enhancements), lose spell crits multiplier, lose access to force enhancements??, slightly less dcs now?, can't/harder to access wand/scroll effectiveness (less self healing), lower spell power (spellcraft pretty useless for a Sorc, a lot less spell power available via enhancements), + anything else I've missed? And, Sorcs can't even access spellcraft unless they LR?

    Plus there are no new spells and maximum caster levels (MCLs) are still stuck at base 5/10/15 for the most part and we can now run quests at level 30 with 30s/40s/50s CR mobs. This coupled with the already inherent bias towards Sorc being able to do dc casting.

    So, what is the point of running a Sorc anymore? Better to use the LR to go to a class that wasn't so heavily nerfed.... or did Sorc fleshies gain something that I am missing?

  2. #2
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Why is spellcraft useless for a sorc? Doesn't it do the same thing for any class... add spell power? Am I missing something here?
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  3. #3
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    The problem is how to get high Spellcraft on a Sorc. Spellcraft is an INT based skill (you'd have to be crazy to invest a lot of points in INT as a Sorc, especially with the drop to HPs) and Sorcs are skill-point starved. I'm thinking there are going to be some very gimp 28/32 point build Sorcs running around....

  4. #4
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hathorian View Post
    -
    1) Lose lots of HP
    2) Lose spell crits chance
    3) lose spell crits multiplier
    4) lose access to force enhancements
    5) slightly less dcs now?
    6) can't/harder to access wand/scroll effectiveness (less self healing),
    7) lower spell power (spellcraft pretty useless for a Sorc)
    8) a lot less spell power available via enhancements)
    9) + anything else I've missed? And, Sorcs can't even access spellcraft unless they LR?
    1) Not really. Same as other classes.
    2) We have about 10% ~ more crits with the items now, lore items have been updated to grant more Spell crit chance.
    3) True. No more 25% from enhancement and Lore items have lost their .5 crit multiplier too.
    4) True. Just a +10 in savants Tier 5.
    5) No. +2 cha from capstone and +1 in any Savant tree.
    6) No wand and Scroll mastery at all.
    7) Not really. 60 from core + 0.75 Universal Spell power for every point spent in a savant tree = exactly the same 120 we have on live. With Spellcraft, we gain Spellpower in the Enhancement Pass.
    8) See above
    9) True. You will need to LR to put points into Spellcraft.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    Why is spellcraft useless for a sorc? Doesn't it do the same thing for any class... add spell power? Am I missing something here?
    The standard line is it adds more to a Wiz because the Wiz is already pumping INT (so 50-ish INT or a 20-ish modifier)

    The reality is you're dropping a point or two of CON (11.5 to 23 hit points) to get a Sorc to 30 INT (+10 Mod) with 1 for 1 point buy investment (14 at build +4 tome (or 13 at build +5 tome from store plus easy gear, more than that if you try harder for gearing up INT).

    BUT You end up gaining a bunch of VERY useful skill points, if you're WF "Repair" is now amping up your Repair spell power and Repair is INT based. If you're fleshy then you meant to choose Wizard and clicked Sorc by mistake

    Wiz's 20-ish spell power from INT
    Sorc's 10-ish spell power from INT

    A 10% difference... or to put this into perspective because MMO players often seem to think 10% is an enourmous number: 10 extra damage for every 100 damage done, 100 extra damage for every 1000 done. Big deal right? Except hold the phone it's not even that simple:

    Sorcs: 8% crits from enhancements
    Wiz's 6% crits from enhancements

    Wiz's have less crit chance so *Yawn*; let the forum theorycrafting drama begin

  6. #6
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    My sorc is human, so extra points there. I have tomes, so extra int for + to spellcraft and more skill points there. I can slot a +6 int gem into one of my random colorless slots I have laying around everywhere for a further bonus. With a starting 8 Int on my human sorc here is what my spellcraft and int should be at 28:

    int
    8 base
    5 tome
    3 insightful (yeah I have a place I can slot this)
    6 colorless slot
    2 ship buff
    -----
    24 int without significant effort

    20 ranks
    8 epic ranks
    7 int
    2 exceptional int skills
    4 exceptional int skills
    6 exceptional int skills (isn't GS nice stuff)
    ------
    47 spellcraft- little effort
    Last edited by Havok.cry; 08-19-2013 at 03:55 PM.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    My sorc is human, so extra points there. I have tomes, so extra int for + to spellcraft and more skill points there. I can slot a +6 int gem into one of my random colorless slots I have laying around everywhere for a further bonus. With a starting 8 Int on my human sorc here is what my spellcraft and int should be at 20:

    int
    8 base
    5 tome
    3 insightful (yeah I have a place I can slot this)
    6 colorless slot
    Where are you putting +3 Ins Int?
    And you can slot +8 Int into a Colorless slot. Or Stormreavers Tablecloth.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Where are you putting +3 Ins Int?
    And you can slot +8 Int into a Colorless slot. Or Stormreavers Tablecloth.
    Trinket from MotU. And my list was just off the top of my head, I'm fairly certain that with some thought behind it I could get that number quite a bit higher.
    Last edited by Havok.cry; 08-19-2013 at 03:59 PM.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    My sorc is human, so extra points there. I have tomes, so extra int for + to spellcraft and more skill points there. I can slot a +6 int gem into one of my random colorless slots I have laying around everywhere for a further bonus. With a starting 8 Int on my human sorc here is what my spellcraft and int should be at 28:

    int
    8 base
    5 tome
    3 insightful (yeah I have a place I can slot this)
    6 colorless slot
    2 ship buff
    -----
    24 int without significant effort

    20 ranks
    8 epic ranks
    7 int
    2 exceptional int skills
    4 exceptional int skills
    6 exceptional int skills (isn't GS nice stuff)
    ------
    47 spellcraft- little effort
    so you are slotting INT into a colorless slot that could have been used for something useful before u19. previously INT was useless on a Sorc. gear nerf. You are also putting on gear that is +3 insightful INT rather than something that could have been useful prior to u19. gear nerf. you have a +5 INT tome on a sorc???

    is Spellcraft a class skill for Sorcs now? kinda weird that an INT-based skill is a class skill for a Sorc. so, to put skill points into Spellcraft are you giving up concentration or UMD for levels 1-6? either way, nerf.

  10. #10
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    My sorc is human, so extra points there. I have tomes, so extra int for + to spellcraft and more skill points there. I can slot a +6 int gem into one of my random colorless slots I have laying around everywhere for a further bonus. With a starting 8 Int on my human sorc here is what my spellcraft and int should be at 28:

    int
    8 base
    5 tome
    3 insightful (yeah I have a place I can slot this)
    6 colorless slot
    2 ship buff
    -----
    24 int without significant effort

    20 ranks
    8 epic ranks
    7 int
    2 exceptional int skills
    4 exceptional int skills
    6 exceptional int skills (isn't GS nice stuff)
    ------
    47 spellcraft- little effort
    Most Sorcs wouldn't have exceptional int skill GS unless they used to be a rogue. I don't think there is such a thing as +6 exceptional int skills...isn't it +1,+2, +4 with GS?

  11. #11
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    Trinket from MotU. And my list was just off the top of my head, I'm fairly certain that with some thought behind it I could get that number quite a bit higher.
    Hm nice catch.

    Too bad that means wasting a Trinket slot just for 3 Int. But well, at the moment my Trinket slot is free since Twilight will be swapped for Nether Orb probably.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
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  12. #12
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hathorian View Post
    Most Sorcs wouldn't have exceptional int skill GS unless they used to be a rogue. I don't think there is such a thing as +6 exceptional int skills...isn't it +1,+2, +4 with GS?
    Exceptional skills got their values changed. Its in the release notes. Each basically got doubled. And Anyone who can run shroud can get that GS item pretty quick and easy.
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  13. #13
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Hm nice catch.

    Too bad that means wasting a Trinket slot just for 3 Int. But well, at the moment my Trinket slot is free since Twilight will be swapped for Nether Orb probably.
    My trinket slot has been used as a swap location for awhile, but eardweller is still it's most used item. Eardweller doesn't really need to stay in slot though.
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  14. #14
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    Exceptional skills got their values changed. Its in the release notes. Each basically got doubled. And Anyone who can run shroud can get that GS item pretty quick and easy.
    They don't stack anymore. So it's just a +6 from GS, not +12. I'd go:

    +2 Con skill
    +4 Int Skill
    +6 Cha skill
    +150 SP
    Co-Op
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
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  15. #15
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    My trinket slot has been used as a swap location for awhile, but eardweller is still it's most used item. Eardweller doesn't really need to stay in slot though.
    If I could have litany, I'd swap that in if my Cha isn't even. +1/2 Spellpower is meaningless.

    Or I'd slot Dodge if that's avaible on trinket as Random gen loot (meh).
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
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  16. #16
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    1) Not really. Same as other classes.
    2) We have about 10% ~ more crits with the items now, lore items have been updated to grant more Spell crit chance.
    3) True. No more 25% from enhancement and Lore items have lost their .5 crit multiplier too.
    4) True. Just a +10 in savants Tier 5.
    5) No. +2 cha from capstone and +1 in any Savant tree.
    6) No wand and Scroll mastery at all.
    7) Not really. 60 from core + 0.75 Universal Spell power for every point spent in a savant tree = exactly the same 120 we have on live. With Spellcraft, we gain Spellpower in the Enhancement Pass.
    8) See above
    9) True. You will need to LR to put points into Spellcraft.
    thanks for the info!! pretty horrible but not quite as bad as some of the things I saw...not nerfing lore items quite as much helps. spells and MCLs are horribly outdated now. Melee classes have continued to get massive boosts since EDs and dc casting has been dropping ever since. It seems like it isn't viable at end game anymore unfortunately...everyone has to be some sort of monk/monk splash now it seems....

  17. #17
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    Exceptional skills got their values changed. Its in the release notes. Each basically got doubled. And Anyone who can run shroud can get that GS item pretty quick and easy.
    sweet, thanks for the info! would'nt that have to be a double imbued shard to get those kind of INT skills? the grind and opportunity cost for that is massive (many, many boring hours and millions of plats worth of mats).
    Last edited by Hathorian; 08-19-2013 at 04:20 PM.

  18. #18
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    They don't stack anymore. So it's just a +6 from GS, not +12. I'd go:

    +2 Con skill
    +4 Int Skill
    +6 Cha skill
    +150 SP
    Co-Op
    what about existing GS items? I guess they are definitely sub-optimal now....sigh. such a grind to get a conc-op (which is double imbued).
    Last edited by Hathorian; 08-19-2013 at 04:19 PM.

  19. #19
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hathorian View Post
    what about existing GS items?
    Not sure but I don't think they are retroactive so you would have to farm a new one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Not sure but I don't think they are retroactive so you would have to farm a new one.
    Existing greensteel that I've looked at have all been changed to the higher and non-stacking exceptional bonuses.

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