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  1. #1
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Default Need help making a Barb tougher

    Hey all as part of a Static Duo group (the other is a Halfling Mech/DWS) we need to beef up this guys survivability somewhat were open to multi-classing were willing to go as low as 11Levels of Barb (for greater rage) but preferably a light splash. Also no S&B as the player (my gamer girl) wants to "hit things with a big sword" and already has 2 S&B types anyway.

    So that said here's the current build...any suggestions? (currently im thinking Barb12/Fighter6/Rogue2)

    Code:
    Human Barbarian20
    Str 18 (Lvl-ups here)
    Con 18
    
    H Stunning Blow
    1 Power Attack
    3 Cleave
    6 Greater Cleave
    9 IC: Slashing
    12 Improved Sunder
    15 THF
    18 ITHF
    ED Fury of the Wild
    21 Overwhelming Critical
    24 GTHF
    
    Skills: Intim, UMD, Spot, Balance
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  2. #2
    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
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    I would take 1 point out of STR and CON (17 each) and put the points in to INT for skills (all my toons have at least 12 starting INT for this reason), speaking of skills add in some Jump too (up to about rank 10) pots are dirt cheap to buy for a boost plus if you get somebody with the spell they will cap out your jump skill and you will have it boosts anyway by your STR score.

    My current Barb life is 11 Barb, 7 Bard and 2 Rogue now yes this is an odd mixture since you can't cast spells while Raged but 7 levels of Bard grants Blur and Displacement which I use constantly for big fights and that alone makes me last a lot longer, now it only lasts 42 seconds but that is a long time in a frantic fight . You could go 12 Barb, 7 Bard and 1 Rogue but your trapping skills would lose out.

    Stoner81.

    PS - The above is probably far from optimal but I have found it a rather fun life.

  3. #3
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    I do love me some Bardbarian but unfortunately thats not the goal of this build..the goal is a tougher barbarian w/o losing the feel of a big brute smashing things with a big club (or sword, etc.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  4. #4
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    If there's any way you can get an item to give you some SP, and possibly some +Devotion spellpower, then try twisting in Rejuvenation Cocoon. It is enormously useful, and it's a tier 1 ability and thus easy to unlock.

  5. #5
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    If there's any way you can get an item to give you some SP, and possibly some +Devotion spellpower, then try twisting in Rejuvenation Cocoon. It is enormously useful, and it's a tier 1 ability and thus easy to unlock.
    I'm sure there is but that isn't until Epic I'm looking for a build that will be relatively survivable from Lvl 7
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    I'm sure there is but that isn't until Epic I'm looking for a build that will be relatively survivable from Lvl 7
    Have you considered changing races to use the dragonmarks?
    Also, now i'm wondering if you can use dragonmarks while raged?

    but halfing dragonmark would give plenty of healing at the cost of 2 strength, 16/10/18/8/8/8
    also, halfing splashing 3/6 ranger with twf would be really good, 16/16/16/8/8/8, giving tempest and deepwood sniper trees (twf and self healing synergies). Instead of beating things up with one big sword, they can use two bigswords? which look extra big on a halfling!

  7. #7
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaneArcher52689 View Post
    Have you considered changing races to use the dragonmarks?
    Also, now i'm wondering if you can use dragonmarks while raged?

    but halfing dragonmark would give plenty of healing at the cost of 2 strength, 16/10/18/8/8/8
    also, halfing splashing 3/6 ranger with twf would be really good, 16/16/16/8/8/8, giving tempest and deepwood sniper trees (twf and self healing synergies). Instead of beating things up with one big sword, they can use two bigswords? which look extra big on a halfling!
    No no Big sword is a requirement and healing really isn't an issue the character she duos with (a rogue) UMDs CxWs just fine and will be heal scrolling later.

    The issue is defense not healing or offense...I'll be writing up a Barb12/Fighter6/???2 to see how that works.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  8. #8
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    I'm sure there is but that isn't until Epic I'm looking for a build that will be relatively survivable from Lvl 7
    Cove trinket that gives the stoneskin guard. Craft life shield and invulnerability onto armor. Craft Body feeder of vengence onto Falchion. Get a shield spell clickie. Use uncanny dodge as often as possible.

    That is it for my two cents.
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  9. #9
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    When you say "tougher," what're you looking for: higher saves? Evasion? More immunities?
    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    Craft life shield and invulnerability onto armor.
    Invulnerability doesn't stack w/barb DR, so I don't see much point in that. Life Shield is cool, though; if OP's friend doesn't have crafting, Deneith Heavy Chain is pretty easy to acquire. Bloody Cleaver upgraded to Vampiric is also nice.

  10. #10
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Tougher as in lives longer dies less...tougher as in Stalwart defender instead if Kensai.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  11. #11
    Community Member xMund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Tougher as in lives longer dies less...tougher as in Stalwart defender instead if Kensai.
    Consider a Ravager/Occult slayer split, over Frenzied Berserker. ~20 AP in Occult Slayer really boosts your defenses against most kinds of magic. Ravager adds I like pain and some dodge, which adds to survivability and Rage Crit is (I think) the best Barb tier 5 for DPS.

    Consider splashing 2 rogue levels for evasion. Evasion plus uncanny dodge is a great help against tricky casters...

  12. #12
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Tougher as in lives longer dies less...tougher as in Stalwart defender instead if Kensai.
    The only thing that's gonna make that goal a reality is gs displace clickies,... and maybe a freaking ton of dodge. Course every blow landing doing that extra dmg to yourself doesn't help either. Stacking amp every which way helps alot to. What is nothing becomes a burst of hp when you toss on 20 30% amp.

    But, if you were wanting to shore up defenses, a dwarf wouldn't hurt with their racial tree. Hell if you could be part monk ud be set until turbine nerfs those builds to hell and back.

    Course then theirs the AP to consider. Your wanting those numbers so 6 fighter and kensai would be the way mixed, but for shoring up you'd probably want stalwart, and with ap no way to invest that deep in so many places.

    I'd say go dwarf, take those enhancments, and then focus on tactics and burst dmg reduction. The dwarfs stone thing, barb dmg reduction boosts. Early on you can stack AC easy for blows to glance away. But at lv 11 that starts to go downhill.

    That's usually where the main benefit of tring comes in. You just Cannot beat those displacment clickies. Having displacement is almost like god mode leveling aside from the elite casters whipping death spells and ****.

    Next you can stack dc's for stunning blow, and dwarf also gives an earthgrab thing as well. Theirs also some crowd control attacks that the barb gets in some tree putting things to sleep and all that.

    Then as you get into the later levels, then you can grind out all the VAST ammounts of gear you'll need for beefyness and to take blows, healing with ED's stacked to the brim with amp. Though personally, I don't know if it changed in this update, but ac blows. When the trash is 4 times your senior that 80% defense is pish. Dodge I find works more often, and now it's easy as hell to cap. I mean it's ridiculous the amounts on common gear now. +8, +4, +2.

    The split though is a tough one. I mean i'd probably take 3 or even 4 rog for the extra's. But ya can't give up the 6 fighter, cause that's a whole lot of focus and dmg, and even an extra threat range, topped with haste, and extra action boosts. And 12 barb does actually have a legitimate reason to take with it's core ability.

    Still 2 rog will net you some nice goodies and more dmg still when you stun em up. Plus you can use those points (wouldn't hurt to invest in some int either) for some skills, like heal, slowly add up your positive energy, cause that with an imbue shard later on really adds to self heal ED skills. And besides the suicide pots, that's what a barbs got to work with. Well unless he doesn't rage. or he's cancelling em nonstop.

    Good luck with your class spread choice.
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  13. #13
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Barb12/Fighter6/Rogue2
    looks nice, can you sustain the ref save for evasion in the content your running?
    barb12/bard8 gives invis(zerg/exploring fun)/blur displacement/haste and full Frenzied berzerker line to cover
    "hit things with a big sword".

    if you invest in ref saves a bit you'll make saves for half damage easely and the hp will soak up the rest

    easy gear to look for in advance:
    GFL
    --->DR breakers<---
    Resistance items

    if you can craft, some made good suggestions, invulnerability is awesome at low level (up to 4)
    canith chalenges have a pair of perma blur bracers

    greensteel is very good too!!!

    do as much silver flame favor for pots and invest in a hire folder, it takes time and common sence to work them but a healing hire can work wonders for barbs.

  14. #14
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    you'll probably find play style will add more survivability than anything else. and by that i mean dont get surrounded. keep repositioning making a horde of mobs waste time as they all scramble over each other to get to you, then when the bulk of them get close move again. mobs can waste tons of time walking round each other leaving you only facing 2-3 instead of all 10. also be sure to vault over the mobs to trip that pesky caster and unload your biggest hits to take it out before the horde catch you up.

    when imminent death isnt quite so pressing you can just go for overwhelming DPS. getting the hang of spamming all 3 cleaves (2 feat 1 enhancement) and keeping those rages running at all times will see your average pack of mobs culled in about 3-4 swings of a big whomping stick.

    also hirelings are great, i know you're trying to duo but a barbarian really isn't much of a solo class and needs some form of significant healing. you can get silver flame pots in the long run but right now if she pops a hireling healer things will be a lot easier.

    oh and as for your character, just follow her barb about and unload your sneak attacks on the same mob she is focusing on. i find that works a treat in PUGs where there is no team play. with 6 random people not playing as a team the difference you can make by just following 1 player means it's suddenly 4 randoms and a team of 2.

    i'm sure there is a lot of egg sucking advice up there, but hopefully some of it will be useful

    it does get better, my 28pt dwarf barbarian managed to drag his hirelings dead butt to a shrine in one of the new quests on EH with his silver flame pots. i'd not try to solo on just pots cos they are silly expensive, but they can save me when the healer goes down. i also saw a barbarian cleaving beholders and reavers to shreds in an at level invaders, that's when i decided to look into cleaves again and found the nice weapon damage bonus on them. seeing a barbarian taking all the aggro in invaders and not going splat was most impressive!
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  15. #15
    Community Member SiliconShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner81 View Post
    ...
    My current Barb life is 11 Barb, 7 Bard and 2 Rogue now yes this is an odd mixture since you can't cast spells while Raged but 7 levels of Bard grants Blur and Displacement which I use constantly for big fights and that alone makes me last a lot longer, now it only lasts 42 seconds but that is a long time in a frantic fight . You could go 12 Barb, 7 Bard and 1 Rogue but your trapping skills would lose out...
    Displacement clickies from greensteel, perma blur.

    Twist in as much dodge as you can for raids or quests with a lot of adds, also get a nice high dodge item +8% or more.

    Ghostly
    Blur
    Displacement
    At least 14 Dodge

    Will make you a lot harder to kill
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  16. #16
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Tougher as in lives longer dies less...tougher as in Stalwart defender instead if Kensai.
    Doesn't barb Rage and defensive stance still cancel each other out?

  17. #17
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    i assume the op just mentioned defender&kensai to illustrate that he wants a barb build that lasts instead of only does dps, yet states he wants something that brings the hurt in the form of 1,5 meter sharp piece of metal

    defender stance cancels out rage and doesn't give all the bonuses while wielding a 2 handed weapon.

  18. #18
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Work-in-progress, but how's this to start?

    Human barb 18 / rog 2

    STR 18 CON 16 DEX 14 dump rest; lvl-ups into STR because duuuhh
    Feats: Power Atk (1), Least Passage DM (1), Cleave (3), Great CL (6), IC:Slash (9), Dodge (12), THF (15), ITHF (18), GTHF (21), Overwhelming Crit (24), PTHF (26 ED), Stunning Blow? (27), Elusive Target? (28 ED)

    Enhancements:
    human (24 APs): skill boost, +1 STR, +30% heal amp, Heroism+Greater Heroism, Least+Lesser DM (DDoor), whatever filler you need to reach higher tiers

    Occult Slayer: Elemental Defense, Extend Rage, Uncanny Dodger, Kinetic Bond, maybe Ear Smash+Knockout

    Passage DM gives extra mobility; Dodge should be at least 11% before items (5% IUD + 3% Dodge feat + 3% Uncanny Dodger); Greater Heroism clickie gives +4 saves.

  19. #19
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xMund View Post
    Consider a Ravager/Occult slayer split, over Frenzied Berserker. ~20 AP in Occult Slayer really boosts your defenses against most kinds of magic. Ravager adds I like pain and some dodge, which adds to survivability and Rage Crit is (I think) the best Barb tier 5 for DPS.

    Consider splashing 2 rogue levels for evasion. Evasion plus uncanny dodge is a great help against tricky casters...
    Hmmm...I'm having a look at the Occult Slayer stuff and it is actually pretty awesome defensively as well as my preferred barbarian archetype "The Anti-Mage"

    2 Rogue is defeinatley a possibility but not sure if I could get Reflex high enough to utilize it.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodspeed View Post
    The only thing that's gonna make that goal a reality is gs displace clickies,... and maybe a freaking ton of dodge. Course every blow landing doing that extra dmg to yourself doesn't help either. Stacking amp every which way helps alot to. What is nothing becomes a burst of hp when you toss on 20 30% amp.
    Yeah with the new prestiges (especially OS) Frenzied is less attractive for this duo (in a full group with a proper healer its still awesome of course)

    Quote Originally Posted by goodspeed View Post
    But, if you were wanting to shore up defenses, a dwarf wouldn't hurt with their racial tree. Hell if you could be part monk ud be set until turbine nerfs those builds to hell and back.
    Dwarfs a possibility...and yeah I really wish I could go 2 monk instead of 2 rogue...could really use the extra feat...stupid alignment restrictions


    Quote Originally Posted by goodspeed View Post
    Course then theirs the AP to consider. Your wanting those numbers so 6 fighter and kensai would be the way mixed, but for shoring up you'd probably want stalwart, and with ap no way to invest that deep in so many places.
    Well stalwart was only an example as you cant rage while in defense stance


    Quote Originally Posted by goodspeed View Post
    Next you can stack dc's for stunning blow, and dwarf also gives an earthgrab thing as well. Theirs also some crowd control attacks that the barb gets in some tree putting things to sleep and all that.
    Yeah a Str/Con based Dwarf with tactics would have alot of stuff to do and the extra bonues vs. magic would help shore up the reflex for evasion.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodspeed View Post
    The split though is a tough one. I mean i'd probably take 3 or even 4 rog for the extra's. But ya can't give up the 6 fighter, cause that's a whole lot of focus and dmg, and even an extra threat range, topped with haste, and extra action boosts. And 12 barb does actually have a legitimate reason to take with it's core ability.

    Still 2 rog will net you some nice goodies and more dmg still when you stun em up. Plus you can use those points (wouldn't hurt to invest in some int either) for some skills, like heal, slowly add up your positive energy, cause that with an imbue shard later on really adds to self heal ED skills. And besides the suicide pots, that's what a barbs got to work with. Well unless he doesn't rage. or he's cancelling em nonstop.
    Yeah its really tempting to go Barb12/Fighter6/Rogue2 the E-Pass has really made this kind of build even more synergistic. Also fitting in UMD is quite nice

    Quote Originally Posted by goodspeed View Post
    Good luck with your class spread choice.
    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    Barb12/Fighter6/Rogue2
    looks nice, can you sustain the ref save for evasion in the content your running?
    Reflex shouldn't be too hard to shore up especially If its a dwarf...both dwarf and occult slayer have boosts to saves vs, magic.


    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    greensteel is very good too!!!
    We don't raid much but iirc ingredients aren't bound so i guess we could just purchase what we need


    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Doesn't barb Rage and defensive stance still cancel each other out?
    This vvvvv

    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    i assume the op just mentioned defender&kensai to illustrate that he wants a barb build that lasts instead of only does dps, yet states he wants something that brings the hurt in the form of 1,5 meter sharp piece of metal

    defender stance cancels out rage and doesn't give all the bonuses while wielding a 2 handed weapon.
    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Work-in-progress, but how's this to start?

    Human barb 18 / rog 2

    STR 18 CON 16 DEX 14 dump rest; lvl-ups into STR because duuuhh
    Feats: Power Atk (1), Least Passage DM (1), Cleave (3), Great CL (6), IC:Slash (9), Dodge (12), THF (15), ITHF (18), GTHF (21), Overwhelming Crit (24), PTHF (26 ED), Stunning Blow? (27), Elusive Target? (28 ED)

    Enhancements:
    human (24 APs): skill boost, +1 STR, +30% heal amp, Heroism+Greater Heroism, Least+Lesser DM (DDoor), whatever filler you need to reach higher tiers

    Occult Slayer: Elemental Defense, Extend Rage, Uncanny Dodger, Kinetic Bond, maybe Ear Smash+Knockout

    Passage DM gives extra mobility; Dodge should be at least 11% before items (5% IUD + 3% Dodge feat + 3% Uncanny Dodger); Greater Heroism clickie gives +4 saves.
    Looks nice but dwarf is looking better a better every time I look at it (glyph of warding will be fun :P) so is fighter 6 mainly for the extra feats but for some kensai goodness as well. At-will GH from human IS really tempting though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

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