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  1. #1
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Default Post U19 warchanter thoughts

    So far, 16bard/2fighter/2rogue looked like a decent split. But with the enhancement change, this split loses one of the reasons to go 16 bard, namely extra inspire courage damage. Taking a deeper Fighter splash would allow more personal dps, an extra feat (which would be spent for weapon specialization) and more HP. Is anyone else tending towards 14/4/2?
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    So far, 16bard/2fighter/2rogue looked like a decent split. But with the enhancement change, this split loses one of the reasons to go 16 bard, namely extra inspire courage damage. Taking a deeper Fighter splash would allow more personal dps, an extra feat (which would be spent for weapon specialization) and more HP. Is anyone else tending towards 14/4/2?
    I am thinking any high charisma class should at least consider how much a 1 or 2 cleric splash can add. Granted that a warchanter may not have been looking at high charisma, but...

    1 cleric options (costs include the 1 ap spent for tree unlock):
    - 7 ap for 3+CHA modifier x 2 minutes of divine might; just 34 CHA ends up being +6 att/dam/dcs for 30 minutes
    - 4 ap for +75% wand/scrolls, cheaper than buying from bard tree
    - 4 ap for 100 more SP (I think...)
    - 4 ap for +15 HP

    2 cleric unlocks the efficient metamagics, none of which are available in the bard trees; maximize -9sp or empower healing -4 sp.

    Is any of that worth trading the fighter levels for? You don't need toughness anymore, and weapon specialization is a pretty weak feat especially if you can get more damage out of having divine might running. Haste Boost could come from rogue trees.

    Something like 15 bard/4 rogue/1 cleric or 14 bard/4 rogue/2 cleric? 4 rogue gets you uncanny dodge too. Don't forget you need at least 15 bard for Inspire Excellence.

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    Even though I've always liked bards, I've been pushing off my bard life in the hopes that they'd get some love from the devs, being one of the more underpowered classes. Instead, they seem to make them worse each time there's a major update.

    It's very hard to make sense of this.

  4. #4
    2016 DDO Players Council Stoner81's Avatar
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    I was thinking of doing a similar level split with 16 Bard, 2 Rogue and the last 2 levels I'm not sure on yet. I was thinking Fighter for feats and Martial Proficiencies but I really don't know.

    Stoner81.

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    Yeah, there's a bunch that can be done with splash classes still, but...

    Does anyone know how the new Skaldic Rage works, is it like the rage spell that still allows casting, or the barbarian rage that does not allow casting, or something else?

    I mean, I have one of the "revisited path" warchanter by tihocan, at level 14 now meaning 12brd/1ftr/1barb, and I was thinking... probably not going pure bard but should I make it 2 ftr 12 bard, or something else? (I did get rid of all my light armors already...)

    At least swap WF for Cleave, I think. Possibly also Toughness for something else and going 2 ftr would be net +1 feat...

    1 cleric would also make sense in that it'd make Heal a class skill. But then again 1 ranger would get that AND Bow Strength AND access to a lot of devotion from the DWS tree...

    Hm, there was a Brutal Throw mentioned in some of the early alpha data for warchanter, that apparently wasn't there any more in the last beta? I do prefer to have the option of efficient ranged, although the low dex does hurt that part a bit.
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  6. #6
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post
    Yeah, there's a bunch that can be done with splash classes still, but...

    Does anyone know how the new Skaldic Rage works, is it like the rage spell that still allows casting, or the barbarian rage that does not allow casting, or something else?

    I mean, I have one of the "revisited path" warchanter by tihocan, at level 14 now meaning 12brd/1ftr/1barb, and I was thinking... probably not going pure bard but should I make it 2 ftr 12 bard, or something else? (I did get rid of all my light armors already...)

    At least swap WF for Cleave, I think. Possibly also Toughness for something else and going 2 ftr would be net +1 feat...

    1 cleric would also make sense in that it'd make Heal a class skill. But then again 1 ranger would get that AND Bow Strength AND access to a lot of devotion from the DWS tree...

    Hm, there was a Brutal Throw mentioned in some of the early alpha data for warchanter, that apparently wasn't there any more in the last beta? I do prefer to have the option of efficient ranged, although the low dex does hurt that part a bit.
    Consider at least 15 bard for access to Inspire Heroics. This opens up Inspire Excellence at epic levels.
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  7. #7
    Community Member thegreatneil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post
    Does anyone know how the new Skaldic Rage works, is it like the rage spell that still allows casting, or the barbarian rage that does not allow casting, or something else?
    Yes it does allow casting and is extended by song length. It does not stack with barb rage. No idea about with other types.
    (such as primal scream or if it count for tunnel vision.)
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    Consider at least 15 bard for access to Inspire Heroics. This opens up Inspire Excellence at epic levels.
    Yes. Eventually. Actually I'm trying to choose between 18/2, 18/1/1, 17/2/1 and 16/2/2... for when I get to l20. Not likely to keep the barbarian level.

    But as of right now I'm going to decide between not using the LR+20 this week, or going 12/2 brd/ftr, or 12/1/1 brd/ftr/ranger.

    ...probably won't decide that today anyway.
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  9. #9
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post
    Yes. Eventually. Actually I'm trying to choose between 18/2, 18/1/1, 17/2/1 and 16/2/2... for when I get to l20. Not likely to keep the barbarian level.

    But as of right now I'm going to decide between not using the LR+20 this week, or going 12/2 brd/ftr, or 12/1/1 brd/ftr/ranger.

    ...probably won't decide that today anyway.
    Oh I hear ya.

    The 2 barbarian levels I've carried on my bard no longer have a purpose. I'm actually very pleased about that. I'm still fiddling around with different combinations. But, what really intrigues me at the moment is that my bard does need a ranged option. And manyshot is within reach without losing too much. We'll see how it goes...
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
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  10. #10
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    Default Howl of the North

    For this ability to work, do you need to take Weapon Focus feat?
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    Oh I hear ya.

    The 2 barbarian levels I've carried on my bard no longer have a purpose. I'm actually very pleased about that. I'm still fiddling around with different combinations. But, what really intrigues me at the moment is that my bard does need a ranged option. And manyshot is within reach without losing too much. We'll see how it goes...
    In U18, I played a Furyshot Virtuoso. 16 bard/2 ranger/2 fighter was the only way to get all the requisite feats without sacrificing too many Bardic abilities. Great fun to play, a solid addition to any party and could solo pretty much any content with ease.

    With the added feat flexibility afforded by U19, Manyshot is more accessible than ever and at least 1 level of ranger is even more desirable. In addition to significantly increasing your burst ranged dps (Bow Strength and Rapid shot) it's also the most efficient source of Devotion spellpower... just 6 AP in the DWS tree nets you a whopping 75 Devotion spellpower!

    What's more, the Warchanter tree is incredibly synergistic with any form of burst dps (Skaldic Rage, Weapon Training, Howl of the North) which makes a Bardic Furyshotter more potent than ever before.

  12. #12
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neoxxz View Post
    In U18, I played a Furyshot Virtuoso. 16 bard/2 ranger/2 fighter was the only way to get all the requisite feats without sacrificing too many Bardic abilities. Great fun to play, a solid addition to any party and could solo pretty much any content with ease.

    With the added feat flexibility afforded by U19, Manyshot is more accessible than ever and at least 1 level of ranger is even more desirable. In addition to significantly increasing your burst ranged dps (Bow Strength and Rapid shot) it's also the most efficient source of Devotion spellpower... just 6 AP in the DWS tree nets you a whopping 75 Devotion spellpower!

    What's more, the Warchanter tree is incredibly synergistic with any form of burst dps (Skaldic Rage, Weapon Training, Howl of the North) which makes a Bardic Furyshotter more potent than ever before.
    I am loving Skaldic Rage. I want to buy it dinner.

    Still at the drawing board though on my level split. 15 Bard is my baseline. Thinking seriously about 3 Ranger/2 Rogue. If I can make the shoe fit, I'm wearin em'!
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    I am loving Skaldic Rage. I want to buy it dinner.

    Still at the drawing board though on my level split. 15 Bard is my baseline. Thinking seriously about 3 Ranger/2 Rogue. If I can make the shoe fit, I'm wearin em'!
    Stack it with Primal Scream and Tensers and you'll want to marry it.

    15 levels of bard gets you most of the goodies but I just can't pass up Otto's Irresistible Dance...

  14. #14
    Community Member mezzorco's Avatar
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    I really don't know what split to choose...is it still more valuable going TWF than THF?

    If THF is good enough I would go 16/4ftr or 15/4ftr/1clr / 16/2ftr/2clr for divine might.


    Otherwise, if TWF is much stronger than THF, I really don't know.

    16/4rng: TWF feat, DWS devotion, ram's might

    16/2rng/2ftr: TWF feat, DWS devotion, two extra feats

    14/6rng: TWF, ITWF, DWS devotion, ram's might, Manyshot, chance to take tempest tier 5 instead of warchanter tier 5 (but no inspire excellence and no otto irresistible)

    16/3rog/1ftr: 2d6 sneak, evasion, extra feat, some skills (don't want to be a trapper)

    Maybe 16/2rng/2ftr is best suited for my playstyle, but ram's might is just a step away
    What do you suggest?
    Last edited by mezzorco; 08-20-2013 at 11:09 AM.

  15. #15
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nni View Post
    For this ability to work, do you need to take Weapon Focus feat?
    IIUC, you need WF feat for Weapon Training enh; and you need Weapon Training for HotN. Have not tested to confirm, however.
    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    Thinking seriously about 3 Ranger/2 Rogue.
    What does rgr 3 get you that's better than lvl 6 spells?
    Last edited by unbongwah; 08-20-2013 at 11:27 AM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mezzorco View Post
    14/6rng: TWF, ITWF, DWS devotion, ram's might, Manyshot, chance to take tempest tier 5 instead of warchanter tier 5 (but no inspire excellence and no otto irresistible)
    I have somewhere around here a plan that should be able to have Manyshot, GTWF, Evasion, and trap skills... oh, and 16 bard so both excellence and Otto's irresistible too. And of course DWS devotion and...

    Haven't updated it for the new system yet, because I'm not sure what all I'll need... but, https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...uot-any-advice

    ...I'll probably need to get more cha, at least, assuming stat prerequisites still count only base+tome+levelups. Counting other enhancements even in just the same tree would make it too easy ;-)
    Last edited by mna; 08-20-2013 at 11:37 AM.
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  17. #17
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    IIUC, you need WF feat for Weapon Training enh; and you need Weapon Training for HotN. Have not tested to confirm, however.

    What does rgr 3 get you that's better than lvl 6 spells?
    Bow Strength, Rapid Shot. Which means spending one feat slot to get Manyshot. I dropped caring about level 6 spells ages ago, which was why I ran my Warchanter as a 14 bard originally until MotU. Only then did I find that adding a Bard level would be good for the build. This gave me access to picking up Inspire Excellence as an Epic Feat.

    For my build:

    lose: Access to 2 level 6 Bard Spells.
    Gain: Manyshot to select as a feat, strong ranged option, Bow Strength, Two Weapon Fighting (not that I'll use it), Rapid Shot, DieHard.

    Of course two Rogue levels add evasion, a bit of sneak attack, and the ability to do traps. I'm still checking into whether this would work out for me. With our current endgame being what it is, I'm of the opinion that manyshot has much more value.

    If evasion doesn't work out in my planning, I'll likely go 4 Ranger and add Ram's Might and Precise Shot to the list. Keeping 1 rogue level works quite well for the majority of traps in the game...
    Last edited by taurean430; 08-20-2013 at 11:48 AM.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    Bow Strength, Rapid Shot. Which means spending one feat slot to get Manyshot.
    You get those by Ranger 2. The level 3 Ranger autogrant is Diehard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    IIUC, you need WF feat for Weapon Training enh; and you need Weapon Training for HotN. Have not tested to confirm, however.
    You no longer need Weapon Focus to take the Weapon Training enhancement.

    However, it's not quite clear what constitutes your 'trained weapon'.

  20. #20
    Community Member mezzorco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    For my build:

    lose: Access to 2 level 6 Bard Spells.
    Gain: DieHard.
    Fixed.

    He was asking rng 3 over rng 2. You could do 16/2/2, losing only diehard for level 6 spells.

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