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  1. #41
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    Is DDoor really worth it unless you are a challenge running? Even then I think an archer build is far superior for all the challenges because you can keep kiting along your desired path while killing mobs.

    There are very few quests where DDoor is an issue unless you don't have a gold seal hireling available.

    Just my thoughts. I do have DDoor on one of my challenge runners but it's a monkcher build.

  2. #42
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitering View Post
    Is DDoor really worth it unless you are a challenge running? Even then I think an archer build is far superior for all the challenges because you can keep kiting along your desired path while killing mobs.

    There are very few quests where DDoor is an issue unless you don't have a gold seal hireling available.

    Just my thoughts. I do have DDoor on one of my challenge runners but it's a monkcher build.
    It depends on the content you run and your reasons for wanting it.

    There are a lot of quests in this game where your xp per minute is signifcantly improved by using ddoor. There's going back to the start to help new players just arriving, there's going back to the start for shrines, there's going back to do that difficult optional after you've completed the quest etc.

    Ddoor certainly isn't a min maxers option, but it's a very nice spell to have especially for a pugger.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitering View Post
    Is DDoor really worth it unless you are a challenge running? Even then I think an archer build is far superior for all the challenges because you can keep kiting along your desired path while killing mobs.
    DDoor in challenges is for picking up the teleporter and then quickly returning to the start; not sure how kiting would help with that.

    There are very few quests where DDoor is an issue unless you don't have a gold seal hireling available.
    Gold seal hires? I think we approach the game differently.

    DDoor is useful for a number of reasons in many quests. In general, it removes the need to recall from the vast majority of quests. It helps speeds up the running of many of them. Most useful, though, is that it's a handy wipe preventer. If a fight starts going south in a hurry, grab all the soulstones, ddoor to the start and regroup.

    The expeditious retreat is also very handy for early levels. It's quite nice to be at 25% striding the moment you wash up in shipwreck shore all the way until you have 30% striders.

  4. #44
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    Default Can the build be changed to deal with traps.

    Hello I'm currently returning to the game after a year break and just TR'd and like the look of your build so decided to try it out. I have however never multi classed before in DDO and would like to be able to spot/disarm traps as I generally solo most content can on elite streak.

    I did the 36 point build and currently at level 5/6 what alterations can I make if any to be able to do the above or is it to late? and if so I have the free heart of wood I can use to respec if you would be so kind as to leave me so instructions as to what to change

    Previous lifes 3x barb 1x fighter, with + 1 tomes to all and +2 to some.

  5. #45

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    If you go with 14 base int you'd get 5 skill points per level, meaning you could max search, disable and concentration. That would mean dumping umd, spot and heal. Dumping spot could work fine if you know where the traps are, dumping heal is acceptable, but dumping umd would definitely hurt. Still, it's workable if you aggressively pursue it.

    A +4 int tome means you could "catch up" on umd, so you'd only lose out on spot and heal.

  6. #46
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    Default Can it be adapted for a Halfling?

    Like everyone else, I'm impressed by your work -- and like everyone else, I'd like your advice on my own version. My character is a 1st-life, non-epic halfling who prefers sword-and-shield. (Already I'm completely different from your build!) I'm leaning towards Unyielding Sovereignty and the KotC line for DPS.

    What would you recommend as far as feats and enhancements? (I've got a really cool Khopesh so I should probably keep that Exotic Weapon feat).

    At 16th level, should I be taking the Fiendslayer line as opposed to Hunter of the Dead?
    Last edited by shawnvw; 09-09-2013 at 08:36 PM.
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  7. #47

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    If you want use a shield, go heavy on the SD tree (get "faster movement", tier 4, for sure) and then consider both shield mastery feats.

    Quote Originally Posted by shawnvw View Post
    At 16th level, should I be taking the Fiendslayer line as opposed to Hunter of the Dead?
    Oh yes, definitely.

    The idea is to go Hunter of the Dead up through the orchard. Once you finish with necropolis IV, switch to fiendslayer and head on over to vale.

    Once you reach epic levels it's "player's choice" which kotc core line you prefer. I personally go back to Hunter of the Dead because there are more epic quests with undead than evil outsiders, but depending on what you like to run fiendslayer may be better. Like, for example, if your favorite token farm is Devil Assault.

  8. #48
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    If you can afford the enhancement resets, you should probably spec in Fiendslayer while running Carnival, Threnal, Chronoscope (does anyone still run this at level?), etc. and switch to HotD for Catacombs, Deleras, Necro, etc. On my pallies, I try to run my quests in batches based on which enemies I'm facing so as to minimize how often I reset enhs.

  9. #49
    Community Member Panzermeyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    The first fighter level is taken as early as possible to get you up and running with maxed haste boost + damage boost right out of the gate. Then six paladin levels for Ghost Touch on all weapons, followed by the second rogue level for evasion. Then it's pally all the way to 18 to get both zeal and cure serious by level 18, finishing off with the second fighter and third rogue levels at 19 & 20.
    Interesting build, I think I might give it a whirl with a 11th Pal/2 Rogue that I have sitting collecting dust.

    The question I have is why the 3rd level of rogue? For the extra sneak attack die? You feel that offers more to the build than another level of pally?
    Panzermeyer - Huge Terry Brooks Shannara Fan

    Main
    Jelara Shannara - Morning Lord Warlock
    (TR XXI - Barb x3, Drd x3, FvS x3, Pal x3, Rgr x1, Rog x2, Sorc x3, Wiz x3 - EtR XII - Epic Completionist - ItR III - PDK x3)
    Alts
    DamsonRhee Shannara - PDK Swashbuckler
    Challenge Farmer
    Eritria Shannara - Human Swashbuckler
    (TR VII - Ftr x3, Sorc x1, Wiz x3 EtR - Prim x1)
    Kirisin Shannara - Sun Elf Shadovar Infiltrator (TR XIV - Barb x1, Bard x1, Clc x3, Fvs x3, Sorc x3, Wiz x3 - EtR V - Mart x2, Div x3 - ItR - MLE x1)


  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Panzermeyer View Post
    The question I have is why the 3rd level of rogue? For the extra sneak attack die? You feel that offers more to the build than another level of pally?
    Pretty much, yeah. Here's the complete list of differences between taking that last level in pally or ranger:

    Pally 16
    +10 hp
    +1 BAB
    +1 fort save
    +6 seconds to base of divine favor & zeal (2:00 base vs 1:54)
    +1 minute to base of bless & prot from evil (16:00 vs 15:00)
    1 level 2 spell

    Rogue 3
    +6 hp
    +1 BAB
    +1 fort save
    +1 will save
    +1 saves vs traps
    +1d6 sneak attack

    I am irrationally drawn to the 16th pally level solely because it would make divine favor and zeal the same duration as divine might, but I just couldn't give in to my inner OCD when faced with rogue 3, which is so clearly superior.

    Note that level 2 spells on pallies are worthless. There is only one good one (resist energy) and one that you can justify taking (angelskin) if you really have to spend a spell slot. Pally 15 gets two of them, and this is plenty even if you decide to go heavy in the SD tree to get raise dead added to your spell book as a level 2 spell.

  11. #51
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Since when do rogues get Diehard? Sure you're not thinking of rgrs?

  12. #52

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    Lol, I accidentally pulled up the ranger page first, listed a couple things, then realized that rogues don't get TWF for free so I then switched over to the rogue page. Diehard stuck in there and somehow it never clicked for me even though I know that rogues don't get it.

  13. #53
    Community Member Panzermeyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Pretty much, yeah. Here's the complete list of differences between taking that last level in pally or ranger:

    Pally 16
    +10 hp
    +1 BAB
    +1 fort save
    +6 seconds to base of divine favor & zeal (2:00 base vs 1:54)
    +1 minute to base of bless & prot from evil (16:00 vs 15:00)
    1 level 2 spell

    Rogue 3
    +6 hp
    +1 BAB
    +1 fort save
    +1 will save
    +1 saves vs traps
    +1d6 sneak attack

    I am irrationally drawn to the 16th pally level solely because it would make divine favor and zeal the same duration as divine might, but I just couldn't give in to my inner OCD when faced with rogue 3, which is so clearly superior.

    Note that level 2 spells on pallies are worthless. There is only one good one (resist energy) and one that you can justify taking (angelskin) if you really have to spend a spell slot. Pally 15 gets two of them, and this is plenty even if you decide to go heavy in the SD tree to get raise dead added to your spell book as a level 2 spell.

    Thanks for that break down.
    Makes sense to me.
    Panzermeyer - Huge Terry Brooks Shannara Fan

    Main
    Jelara Shannara - Morning Lord Warlock
    (TR XXI - Barb x3, Drd x3, FvS x3, Pal x3, Rgr x1, Rog x2, Sorc x3, Wiz x3 - EtR XII - Epic Completionist - ItR III - PDK x3)
    Alts
    DamsonRhee Shannara - PDK Swashbuckler
    Challenge Farmer
    Eritria Shannara - Human Swashbuckler
    (TR VII - Ftr x3, Sorc x1, Wiz x3 EtR - Prim x1)
    Kirisin Shannara - Sun Elf Shadovar Infiltrator (TR XIV - Barb x1, Bard x1, Clc x3, Fvs x3, Sorc x3, Wiz x3 - EtR V - Mart x2, Div x3 - ItR - MLE x1)


  14. #54
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    Love this build. How would you make a version of this using Monk? Replace Rogue? Replace Fighter? 18/2 pal/monk?

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by pafunk View Post
    Love this build. How would you make a version of this using Monk? Replace Rogue? Replace Fighter? 18/2 pal/monk?
    There are a ton of good possibilities. My gut instinct would be 15/3/2 pally/monk/fighter. It'd be a feat-a-palooza!

    Also, I might switch to handwraps, drop strength down to 16 to get dex up to 14, eat a +3 dex tome and take the twf chain as early as possible.

  16. #56
    Community Member Panzermeyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pafunk View Post
    Love this build. How would you make a version of this using Monk? Replace Rogue? Replace Fighter? 18/2 pal/monk?
    Depends on your taste.

    Taking out the rogue you will lose a lot of skill points and your UMD would likely take a huge hit. That would seem to be the biggest downside. And a little on the sneak attack bonus, but that does not seem like it would be that important.

    Taking out the fighter you lose 2 feats.

    So I would likely swap out the rogue levels for the Monk levels. I am finding that UMD is becoming less and less important for my play style. So I am no longer as worried about it on most of my builds, particularly when it is low.

    Both Rogue and Monk have evasion. So that is a wash. So with monk you will gain 2 more feats over those lists. I would also drop the THF line if I took monk and go the TWF route for combat as well, also switching IC to blugdeon rather than slashing. So the extra feats I might dump into dodge and mobility, or whatever you want for flavor and survivability. But regardless I think the additional feats out way the loss of the UMD and loss of sneak attack damage.
    Panzermeyer - Huge Terry Brooks Shannara Fan

    Main
    Jelara Shannara - Morning Lord Warlock
    (TR XXI - Barb x3, Drd x3, FvS x3, Pal x3, Rgr x1, Rog x2, Sorc x3, Wiz x3 - EtR XII - Epic Completionist - ItR III - PDK x3)
    Alts
    DamsonRhee Shannara - PDK Swashbuckler
    Challenge Farmer
    Eritria Shannara - Human Swashbuckler
    (TR VII - Ftr x3, Sorc x1, Wiz x3 EtR - Prim x1)
    Kirisin Shannara - Sun Elf Shadovar Infiltrator (TR XIV - Barb x1, Bard x1, Clc x3, Fvs x3, Sorc x3, Wiz x3 - EtR V - Mart x2, Div x3 - ItR - MLE x1)


  17. #57

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    I don't use UMD for all that much either, but I do very much lurve using teleport scrolls. I also kind of like scrolling GH. And since I have the umd anyway it's nice to use it for invis and sonic blast scrolls, as well as raise dead if my +++ maul has already been used.

    All of that can be replaced with clickies, though, so yeah, if you get the clickies for what you normally umd, I see no harm in dropping umd.

  18. #58
    Community Member Panzermeyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I don't use UMD for all that much either, but I do very much lurve using teleport scrolls. I also kind of like scrolling GH. And since I have the umd anyway it's nice to use it for invis and sonic blast scrolls, as well as raise dead if my +++ maul has already been used.

    All of that can be replaced with clickies, though, so yeah, if you get the clickies for what you normally umd, I see no harm in dropping umd.
    And that is why I run with the Royal Mask for a Teleport clickie, a Ring of Ancestors for a raise dead clickie, and that girdle from Xorian Cipher for a GH clickie, not to mention some visors of the flesh renderer for Death Ward =)
    Panzermeyer - Huge Terry Brooks Shannara Fan

    Main
    Jelara Shannara - Morning Lord Warlock
    (TR XXI - Barb x3, Drd x3, FvS x3, Pal x3, Rgr x1, Rog x2, Sorc x3, Wiz x3 - EtR XII - Epic Completionist - ItR III - PDK x3)
    Alts
    DamsonRhee Shannara - PDK Swashbuckler
    Challenge Farmer
    Eritria Shannara - Human Swashbuckler
    (TR VII - Ftr x3, Sorc x1, Wiz x3 EtR - Prim x1)
    Kirisin Shannara - Sun Elf Shadovar Infiltrator (TR XIV - Barb x1, Bard x1, Clc x3, Fvs x3, Sorc x3, Wiz x3 - EtR V - Mart x2, Div x3 - ItR - MLE x1)


  19. #59
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    Hello again Ellis

    I'm currently running your fighter/cleric build 12/8, and loving it, what's the big difference between the 2? And which would you say is superior?
    I want to run epics, saves seems to be paramount, and so is DPS... How's a pally DPS these days?
    Truly, you're a build genius , tell me the juggernaut isn't yours, LOL

  20. #60

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    The key difference is that this paladin has high saves and lower dps.

    The kensei warpriest has good dps but horrible saves.

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