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  1. #1
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Default Rebuilding a few Duos for post E-Pass

    Hey all I'll likely be creating a thread for each of these builds but I figured I'd have a general thread for minor suggestions and maybe some suggestions on pairings

    Our current pairings are:


    Monk and Wiztank (Epic characters...slated for future TR)
    Pally18/PDK1/Monk1 (S&B Con/Cha Based) and Halfling Daggermaster (Mech Rogue/DWS Ranger)
    Druid/Monk (Caster/Tank Focus, Sneaky) and Shadar-Kai Skull Cracker (Max Int, Q-Staff, Sneaky)
    Arty18/ML1/Sorc1 (Trapsmith,Buffer,Ranged DPS,CC) & Monk/Kensai/BF (Tough Melee DPS)

    I'll be posting the individuals threads shortly
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 09-23-2013 at 06:15 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  2. #2
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Added links to the build threads for 2 of the duos...Pally and Caster w/ Trap skills are likely next (thinking Wiz18/Rogue2) the Wiztank won't come until after the update.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  3. #3
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Pally18/PDK2 (S&B Con/Cha Based)
    Unless Glorious Stand is a lot more awesome than it sounds, I'm thinking there's not much incentive to going for pal 18 anymore. Some ideas kicked around in this thread inc. pal 15 / monk 3 / ftr 2: extra feats, Evasion, and more heal amp from monk.

  4. #4
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Unless Glorious Stand is a lot more awesome than it sounds, I'm thinking there's not much incentive to going for pal 18 anymore. Some ideas kicked around in this thread inc. pal 15 / monk 3 / ftr 2: extra feats, Evasion, and more heal amp from monk.
    Well the person I'm making this for wants the stereotypical Heavy Armor, Massive Shield type-Paladin...so whilst the level choice is not set in stone beyond Paladin being the main class the S7B Plate armor is.

    If Zeal wasn't so freaking awesome I'd being make a Paladin12/Fighter8 or something like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  5. #5
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post

    If Zeal wasn't so freaking awesome I'd being make a Paladin12/Fighter8 or something like that.
    Hmmm I just realized you get Zeal at Lvl 14 not 15 so a Paladin14/Fighter6 would actually work quite well....now the question is...is there anything worthwhile from Lvl 15 - 20...or is getting a bunch of boni from Kensai for some extra DPS awesome enough to beta said things out....also there's quite a few boni in Stalwart that don't require you to be in the Stalwart defender stance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Hmmm I just realized you get Zeal at Lvl 14 not 15 so a Paladin14/Fighter6 would actually work quite well....now the question is...is there anything worthwhile from Lvl 15 - 20
    Pal 15 gets you a 2nd lvl 4 spell slot (Death Ward or CSW) plus extra Smite & Remove Disease (yawn); 16 & 17 offer nothing; 18 gets you Slayer of Evil III and Glorious Stand. So I think pal 15 or 18 will become the optimal stopping pts for mostly-pally builds, depending on priorities.

    EDIT: for a self-healing pally, one of the best splashes is...ranger. No, seriously. So you can load up on Increased (Wild) Empathy from DWS. No, seriously! This gives you +75 positive spellpower and +1d6 SA to boot for only 6 APs. It's kinda maybe a lot ridiculous. And if you find a way to add Manyshot a la Pyrene...well, so much the better.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 08-23-2013 at 07:14 PM.

  7. #7
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    BTW, this was my first pass at a PDK pally tank:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 25 Lawful Good Human Female
    (4 Fighter \ 15 Paladin \ 1 Ranger \ 5 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 370
    Spell Points: 235 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 24
    Reflex: 13
    Will: 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 25)
    Strength             16                    17
    Dexterity             8                     8
    Constitution         16                    16
    Intelligence         10                    10
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             16                    21
    
    Level 1 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 2 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 6 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 7 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 8 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    
    
    Level 9 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 11 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 12 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 13 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
    
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Bash
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 20 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    
    
    Level 21 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 22 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 23 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 24 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 25 (Ranger)
    Last 3 epic feats were going to be PTHF, Quicken, and either Holy Strike or Elusive Target.

    Normally I'd skip Imp Shield Bash on a pally tank, but I wanted to see if Overbalance made it worthwhile. If it isn't, I'll swap ISB for Quicken and take, say, epic dmg reduction as my lvl 27 feat.

    EDIT: The rgr splash is for Inc Empathy (+75 positive spellpower) and EotW (+100 SPs and free Magical Training feat); not bad for 10(?) APs.

    EDIT 2: I was trying to put this build together cheap (i.e., no tomes); adjust base stats accordingly if you're willing to throw any on there.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 08-23-2013 at 07:45 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    EDIT: for a self-healing pally, one of the best splashes is...ranger. No, seriously. So you can load up on Increased (Wild) Empathy from DWS. No, seriously! This gives you +75 positive spellpower and +1d6 SA to boot for only 6 APs. It's kinda maybe a lot ridiculous. And if you find a way to add Manyshot a la Pyrene...well, so much the better.
    You mean, something like this? Sure, at only 14 con and no Toughness it's a bit squishy for a paladin but at least it should be able to self-heal.

    ...hm, I do have that annoyingly un-self-sufficient human with the unopened birthday box in the second character slot on Ghallanda, wonder what alignment it was again... as it happens, 4 more points (as in 32 point build) would neatly replace the +2 dex tome in this case.

    Neither Paladin 16, Fighter 3 or Ranger 3 offer much but at least Ranger 3 lets you take Morphic Arrows to go with the Manyshot.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
    (2 Fighter \ 15 Paladin \ 3 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 254
    Spell Points: 185 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 20
    Reflex: 14
    Will: 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    20
    Dexterity            14                    17
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             14                    14
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               2                     4
    Bluff                 2                     2
    Concentration         6                    25
    Diplomacy             2                     2
    Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                2                     2
    Heal                  3                    22
    Hide                  2                     3
    Intimidate            2                     2
    Jump                  7                    12
    Listen               -1                    -1
    Move Silently         2                     3
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair               -1                    -1
    Search               -1                    -1
    Spot                  3                     5
    Swim                  7                    10
    Tumble                3                     4
    Use Magic Device      3                     3
    
    Level 1 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Point Blank Shot
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 2 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
    Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 6 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 9 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Manyshot
    
    
    Level 10 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 11 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 12 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
    
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 20 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Last edited by mna; 08-23-2013 at 09:35 PM.
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).
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  9. #9
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    heh same reason i splashed Ranger on my Arty...little worried it will get nerfed fast though.

    I'll definitely keep 1+ Ranger high up on the list of possibilities.

    Why are you starting a PDK with so much strength? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose. You only need 13 for power attack (pre-req for Cleave/G-Cleave). The THF Line does need 17 so 14+3 tome but imo that line isnt really worth it anymore especially on a S&B build I'd rather take the Dodge -> Mobility -> Spring Attack -> Whirlwind Attack line (assuming WWA actually works..can never be sure with DDO :P) and use the extra build points for more Con/Cha or maybe even Int for CE and than use my Cha to Tactics for some Improved Trip, Sunder,etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  10. #10
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Update with current plans


    Duo 1:

    Monk and Wiztank: Unfortunately not much development here, all we really know is that we want them to make use of their Past Live Feats...the monk bonus to unarmed and the wizards bonus dcs. The Wiztank (me) will likely be TRing into a BF Sorc with a tukaw framework updated for todays game. The Monk we have no idea...Single classed Monk again is boring...Druid/Monk she is alreayd playing in another duo...so not sure waht else to do...maybe a Clonk?



    Duo 2:

    Pally14/Fighter(PDK)5/Ranger1: Enough for Zeal...Heavy Armor + S&B. Fighter levels primarily for extra feats and PDKs Cha to atk/damage/tactics, also the +1 crit range if the AP allows. Ranger is mainly for positive heal amp in DWS.

    Halfling Daggermaster Rogue14/Ranger6: Moved to being paired with Pally due to pally having more sustainability than the barb (giving the barb a healer)...its also become a hybrid Thrower/TWF'r w/ Daggers for both. The TWF is mostly a result of the ranger levels (which were taken for called shot) so its pretty much free and there was an unused feat slot for GTWF. This build will mainly focus on the Mech & Halfling Racial trees with only a few points in Tempest and Assassin. (I'll leave the assassinating to my single-classed Shadar-kai Acrosassin)

    The beauty of this duo is whilst both builds are self sufficient they also complement each other (Sneaky Ranged + Tanky Melee) especially once the rogue starts getting high UMD levels.



    Duo 3:

    Druid17/Monk3: This build is primarily a spellcaster but enjoys the ability to switch to tanky or melee DPSy by switching druid forms and Monk stances...also having healing fists is a great boost to healing output on a class that frannkly sucks at it (the regen spells are nice but pointless due to the abysmally short durations)

    Shadar-Kai20: Basically your standard Int/Dex-Based Assassin except it uses a Q-Staff to assassinate...just for fun..the shadar kai abilities are of course awesome for this build


    Duo 4:


    Barb12/Fighter6/Rogue: The barb is alot more durable this way with evasion and a bunch of extra feats not to mention the dwarven defensive boosts and Earthgrab is gonna be fun. Obviously this build is gonna be a THF build but it still will put a few points into stalwart to get a few non-stance, non-shield related defensive boost as well as a bunch of cool defensive boosts in occult slayer. AP will be tight but with a little T&E I'll get it right eventually

    Arty 20: A standard int/dex based repeater build...ntohing out of the ordinary with this one...shes just been itching to play one.


    Duo 5:

    |The dual Iconics...we want to try out 2 iconics...we have a mix of them above but none are paired up with other iconics....one build (likely mine) is a Bard16/PDK2/Rogue2 but were not sure what to do for the other one right now the plan is for her to play a Shadar-kai Assassin (probably a more normal one than moine in Duo 2) but we would love to hear some suggestions for this mix...remember I'm playuing the Wiztank, the Daggermaster, the shadar-kai and the barbarian, whilst my gamer girl is playing the Monk, the paladin, the Drunk and the arty so we want something different for the iconic duo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  11. #11
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post
    Neither Paladin 16, Fighter 3 or Ranger 3 offer much but at least Ranger 3 lets you take Morphic Arrows to go with the Manyshot.
    If you went TWF, rgr 3 gets you Tempest (+10% offhand); and either way, you could pick up +1d6 SA from DWS for a little more oomph. I have a TWF drow pally I'm considering LRing into something similar (monk instead of ftr to get Evasion).

    In your case, I'd start DEX 15 CHA 12 so you don't need to put a lvl-up into DEX. Not a big deal, but with the change to Divine Might, +1 STR > +2 CHA, IMHO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Why are you starting a PDK with so much strength? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose. You only need 13 for power attack (pre-req for Cleave/G-Cleave). The THF Line does need 17 so 14+3 tome but imo that line isnt really worth it anymore especially on a S&B build
    My view is a CHA-based S&B build is far enough behind the DPS curve (no OC, no benefit from STR buffs like Primal Scream, Divine Might, etc.) that it needs all the help it can get; hence the THF chain. But I admit I'm just making it up as I go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Pally14/Fighter(PDK)5/Ranger1: Enough for Zeal...Heavy Armor + S&B. Fighter levels primarily for extra feats and PDKs Cha to atk/damage/tactics, also the +1 crit range if the AP allows.
    What does ftr 5 get you over pal 15 (extra lvl 4 spell slot)?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Pally14/Fighter(PDK)5/Ranger1: Enough for Zeal...Heavy Armor + S&B. Fighter levels primarily for extra feats and PDKs Cha to atk/damage/tactics, also the +1 crit range if the AP allows.
    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    What does ftr 5 get you over pal 15 (extra lvl 4 spell slot)?
    Would that be the +1 crit range?

    Unfortunately, Keen Edge has a prerequisite that in turn requires a feat that requires ftr 8. And 30+ AP in that tree too, which... does look like a lot for that kind of a build.
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  13. #13
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post
    Would that be the +1 crit range?

    Unfortunately, Keen Edge has a prerequisite that in turn requires a feat that requires ftr 8. And 30+ AP in that tree too, which... does look like a lot for that kind of a build.
    WHAT!?! Well that kinda of ruined that plan...still gonna be taking Ranger and fighter levels just need to re-evaluate how many of each
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  14. #14
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    OK so yeah taking the 5th level of fighter is kind of pointless w/o monk levels or at least 8 lvls of fighter (even tier 4 is pretty meh w/o 8lvls)...not sure what I should do now I have 14Pally Lvls and 2-4 Fighter Lvls leaving me with 2-4 levels of anything else....I wonder what would be useful to a heavy armor wearing Con/Cha based build. Alternative could just go Pally18/Fighter1/Ranger1
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 09-04-2013 at 11:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

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    Pally 15 is worth it for CSW, but pally 16 is really, really not. So maybe 15/4/1 pally/fighter/ranger for 2 extra feats, devotion and CSW?

  16. #16
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Pally 15 is worth it for CSW, but pally 16 is really, really not. So maybe 15/4/1 pally/fighter/ranger for 2 extra feats, devotion and CSW?
    What about the Glorious Stand, how long is the duration? It's really the only thing I see worth going past Lvl 15 for.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 09-04-2013 at 11:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    What about the Glorious Stand, how long is the duration? It's really the only thing I see worth going past Lvl 15 for.
    My personal opinion is that if you spend 31 AP in the Sacred Defender tree you're committing to s&b full time, which is not my cup of tea. So I can't really offer meaningful feedback on glorious stand.

  18. #18
    Community Member kuro_zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    My personal opinion is that if you spend 31 AP in the Sacred Defender tree you're committing to s&b full time, which is not my cup of tea. So I can't really offer meaningful feedback on glorious stand.
    I have not tried Glorious Stand since the ENH-P but I know the prior version lasted for 20s like an action boost.
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  19. #19
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuro_zero View Post
    I have not tried Glorious Stand since the ENH-P but I know the prior version lasted for 20s like an action boost.
    At 20s it does not sound worth it...I wonder if Lama is up so I can test this....if it is only 20s that 15/4/1 pretty much instantly wins...now which gains the most Pally 16, Fighter 5 or Ranger 2....hmmmmm.

    Edit: Actually that was really easy Pally15 & Fighter5 gain nothing those levels in enhancements nor in class features where-as Ranger gains tier 2 enhancements. So yeah Ranger wins by default woooooo...its best use is likely using ranger to catch up any skills that have fallen behind so take it late in the heroic levels.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 09-05-2013 at 06:14 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Edit: Actually that was really easy Pally15 & Fighter5 gain nothing those levels in enhancements nor in class features where-as Ranger gains tier 2 enhancements. So yeah Ranger wins by default woooooo...its best use is likely using ranger to catch up any skills that have fallen behind so take it late in the heroic levels.
    I'm having a little trouble parsing this; if you mean 14/4/2 pally/fighter/ranger, pally 15 brings cure serious wounds to the table, which is quite nice. Pally 14 only gets one level 4 spell, and zeal is the greatest melee spell ever.

    Most of the ranger enhancement goodness is in tier 1, but if you did want to go ranger 2 that opens up the potential for furyshot. In that case I might go 15/2/2 pally/monk/ranger, and I'm not entirely sure what the best last level would be. The F2P version would swap the 2 monk levels for fighter levels, but then you lose evasion.

    One thing I will say is that pally 16 does "even out" divine favor and zeal to be the same duration as a maxed out divine might: 2:00 for all 3. Depending on how OCD you are, this might feel much nicer.

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