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Thread: Morningstars

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    Community Member marcuswilliams2666's Avatar
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    Default Morningstars

    I have been bouncing the idea of using morningstars and dual morningstars on a toon and am just wondering what everyone thought of them,are they a viable weapon,any negatives about them...love to hear the feedback

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    Default try it first

    in dnd (yeah, i know, this is ddo, different animal) you can't use "chain" weapons dual wield. so try it first on a generalist first.

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    Equipping them shouldn't be a problem, i went with various mace/morningstars/heavy maces/warhammer combos on my ranger to crush skeletons with. You'd probably want the oversized two weapon fighting feat since they are not a small weapon. With mondays enhancement changes there just might be some racial/class bonus with morningstars, but short of that they would be behind scimitars or dwarven axes when wielded by the appropriate race, or behind a khopesh. If the best choice available isn't what concerns you then you should have a usable weapon, and can likely pick up some cheap on the auction.

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    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    You're thinking of a flail, Morningstar's in DDO/D&D are maces with spiked balls, not Morningstar flails which are chain and ball with spikes attached to a handle, in most versions of D&D you could dual wield any one handed weapon including flails and whips. Rest assured no such limit exists in DDO.

    As for the subject check out one of the most underrated weapons in the game:

    Coronation, a morningstar with a Khopesh crit profile (19-20 X3) 1.5W2d4 that correctly does both blunt and pierce damage types (thus getting full damage on things that have either blunt or pierce resistence, making it a pretty decent DR breaker with greater ribcracker and a purple and a red augment. I plan to use one or more on some sort of caster melee build but haven't worked out a build.

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    Community Member marcuswilliams2666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    You're thinking of a flail, Morningstar's in DDO/D&D are maces with spiked balls, not Morningstar flails which are chain and ball with spikes attached to a handle, in most versions of D&D you could dual wield any one handed weapon including flails and whips. Rest assured no such limit exists in DDO.

    As for the subject check out one of the most underrated weapons in the game:

    Coronation, a morningstar with a Khopesh crit profile (19-20 X3) 1.5W2d4 that correctly does both blunt and pierce damage types (thus getting full damage on things that have either blunt or pierce resistence, making it a pretty decent DR breaker with greater ribcracker and a purple and a red augment. I plan to use one or more on some sort of caster melee build but haven't worked out a build.
    you are quite right in thinking of flails,but since DDO does'nt have flails,then the maces with spikey balls works for me..I have wanted to try it ever since I read one of RA Salvatores seriesmwhere a dwarf dual wields morningstars; 1 that is flaming and 1 that drips acid

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcuswilliams2666 View Post
    I have been bouncing the idea of using morningstars and dual morningstars on a toon and am just wondering what everyone thought of them,are they a viable weapon,any negatives about them...love to hear the feedback
    Their main problem is, that there are no top notch named morningstars in the end game. The only end game named one I recall Is Braisingstar, which is the worst weapon and prolly worst item from Fall of Truth.

    Apart from that, there is the awesome one from necropolis, that was mentioned above (Coronation) and the heroic verison of Braisingstar (that has much much better abilities), but that is pretty much it.

    Morningstars are also subpar as a weapon type to many others.

    BUT, if you dont care about top DPS, then there is not a single reason not to use them. You can improve crit profile by LD Pulverizer ability, if you are serious about using them in epic. On the plus side, they are also breaking both pierce and blud DR, which is pretty nice and as mainly blud weapons, its easy to get random gen with stunning. Ah, and many names have stunning build in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by levesque2004 View Post
    in dnd you can't use "chain" weapons dual wield.
    Lies. Nothing in dnd (at least 3e, which ddo is based on) nor ddo prevents dual wielding chain weapons (which morningstars aren't, anyway) as long as it's not a two-handed weapon.

    But to the topic at hand.

    Most powergamers mainly use morningstars (and heavy maces, which have nearly identical combat stats) mainly for skeleton (and other undead) beating. This is because they a) go through skeleton DR, b) have the highest damage die of all blunt one-handed weapons (that go through skeleton DR), and c) are used against targets where the weapon's crit profile doesn't matter nearly as much as when fighting other foes.

    On the other hand, most powergamers tend to grab a different weapon for common enemies, where the weapon's crit profile matters more than the damage die & damage type. Of course, this is only an issue when dps becomes important, around the time monster HP starts to inflate way faster than dps.

    In the past, a morningstar/heavy mace/other blunt weapon based build could be justified with +X stunning being only available to blunt weapons, and only blunt weapons. Nowdays this isn't the case. Ever since last year's expansion, anyone could grab a stunning +10 ring from house of rusted blades if they wanted one and blunt weapons lost their niche as stunning weapons, kinda killing off any interest powergamers had for them.

    The only special thing about morningstars I can think of, is the dual damage type of bludgeoning/piercing (I can't remember if this is nowdays on every morningstar or just on a few named ones), which isn't going to be of much use compared to being just bludgeoning. In fact, there's several opponents where having just bludgeoning is better than having both. Off the top of my head, I can think of 2 monsters where piercing damage is useful. Rakshasha and the spiders in let sleeping dust lie. On the other hand, piercing damage will split up most oozes, which tends to be a bad thing unless you're fighting blight oozes. Then again, you probably have an ooze beater of some sort so they don't break your main weapons, so this point is fairly moot.

    Nowdays I can't think of one good argument for specializing in morningstars from a powergamer point of view. The lack of good morningstars in endgame leaves only a triple positive greensteel morningstar as the probably-best-in-slot weapon for fighting undead. As long as there's no vampires or zombies involved, anyway. Most other weapons have something, anything that the morningstar doesn't have for general enemy beating.

    On the other hand, you only need to worry about doing enough damage if you run stuff where you need to bring your a game. If you find yourself rarely in epic elites or just join for free loot after someone soloes them first (this is my preferred method), then a discussion of dps becomes a bit silly.


    Tl;dr: If you are a powergamer, don't spec for low-dps weapons like morningstars. If not, go ahead.
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    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    This seems to be an issue with this game; too many unused and horribly underpowered weapons. Morningstars, warhammers, heavy maces, kamas, mauls, crossbows, great crossbows, great clubs, hand axes, battle axes, and short bows are all underpowered and widely considered sub-par in most situations. I don't include 'light' weapons in this because they're purely situational and used for TWF users (and weapons like short swords and daggers are used a lot by rogues). I feel blunt weapons in general are situational due to their crit profiles.

    I mean, not too long ago, bastard swords were frowned upon if you used them and a rogue using a quarterstaff was almost laughable. But, now that there are is a wider variety of weapons being made, people are noticing their use (and making builds around them). The upcoming enhancement pass also will bring in some interested choices like daggers/kukris for rogues or warhammers/heavy picks for dwarves, etc.

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    Community Member Philibusta's Avatar
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    Historically speaking, morningstars were also more of what is considered a "polearm" type of weapon in DnD. The surviving examples of medieval morningstars (on display in museums, and depicted in examples of medieval art) are almost 8 feet long, with almost 2 feet of that being the head and the remaining 6 feet being the wooden shaft. They were definitely not one-handed weapons.

    The weapon most of us DnD players have come to know as a "morningstar" is in fact, not. It's simply a mace with a spiky head.
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    Default Best Two-Weapon Dual-Wielding Morninstar Build:

    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    This seems to be an issue with this game; too many unused and horribly underpowered weapons. Morningstars, warhammers, heavy maces, kamas, mauls, crossbows, great crossbows, great clubs, hand axes, battle axes, and short bows are all underpowered and widely considered sub-par in most situations. I don't include 'light' weapons in this because they're purely situational and used for TWF users (and weapons like short swords and daggers are used a lot by rogues). I feel blunt weapons in general are situational due to their crit profiles.

    I mean, not too long ago, bastard swords were frowned upon if you used them and a rogue using a quarterstaff was almost laughable. But, now that there are is a wider variety of weapons being made, people are noticing their use (and making builds around them). The upcoming enhancement pass also will bring in some interested choices like daggers/kukris for rogues or warhammers/heavy picks for dwarves, etc.
    So, I've been leveling up a ftr/clr/monk (11/7/2) dual wielding morningstars. Around level 15, I'll have GTWF, great cleave, imp crit, and whirlwind (and completionist and mark of passage to boot).

    My Advice:
    1) You will not have the best DPS. Haters gonna hate. Let them. You're playing to have fun, and your weapons will put you in the top 5% for DPSing. Be self-sufficient, don't skimp on evasion-helping gear, and be willing to toss out a deathward or two.
    2) Star of Iriian (crit 19-20/x2) has double slots and is nice to stick devotion on. Put shock and acid maybe on the other 3 slots. Get two of them from Tempest Spine. People are generally willing to pass them.
    3) GS morningstars have bad crit profiles (20/x2), but you might want a Rad II or Lit II depending on how serious you want to be with the build. (Lit II will probably out-DPS any other Morningstar, even with the stinky crit profile).
    4) I prefer Coronation (it has a khopesh crit profile 19-20x3) and a purple and red slot. it's ML 14 and you get it from the necro iV tome turn in (which I think is an easier thing to put together than GS mats). Getting two of them will probably not be a problem.

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