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  1. #41
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Triple pos greensteel?
    Yes. Thanks to Cetuss that idea of offhanding a triple pos kama heal stick has been slowly crawling across our entire server. I use it on my rogue, however my fighter benefited more from just wearing the hamp gear indefinitely.

    Hell, even the high end Juggernauts use the heal stick since most of them found out it's easier to use a heal scroll in smaller fights than it is to waste sp on recon.

  2. #42
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    Yes. Thanks to Cetuss that idea of offhanding a triple pos kama heal stick has been slowly crawling across our entire server. I use it on my rogue, however my fighter benefited more from just wearing the hamp gear indefinitely.

    Hell, even the high end Juggernauts use the heal stick since most of them found out it's easier to use a heal scroll in smaller fights than it is to waste sp on recon.
    Ah, bugger. Was hoping there was another way to get 10/20/30 on an offhand item.

    I don't know whether to love this thread for showing me you can use a scroll+weapon in one weapon set, or burn it for making me go back to shroud.

  3. #43
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Ah, bugger. Was hoping there was another way to get 10/20/30 on an offhand item.

    I don't know whether to love this thread for showing me you can use a scroll+weapon in one weapon set, or burn it for making me go back to shroud.
    Trust in the Shroud

  4. #44
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    Trust in the Shroud
    Would you like to see my collection of pitch forks? I'll think I'll take this one to shroud.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    I've got the gear setup listed on my build thread. It doesn't help to claim that I don't have a setup without first looking.

    I keep myself up with heal scrolls, so equipping them with a 10/20/30 healing amp stick is how I maximize their efficiency.

    If a healer wants to throw an occasional heal on me, I have 15% past lives + 30% from enhancements, plenty to get spot healed.
    I see, it's just a different mentality about healing. I specifically chose to beef up healing amp/positive spell power so Rejuv Cocoon or the emergency Silver Flame potion could be as effective as possible without requiring a gear swap. I really hate swapping gear constantly and I dislike scroll healing. YMMV.
    U19 Kensei: Centered Cleaver | TR Junkie Leveling Framework

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  6. #46
    Community Member Retrodark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    I see, it's just a different mentality about healing. I specifically chose to beef up healing amp/positive spell power so Rejuv Cocoon or the emergency Silver Flame potion could be as effective as possible without requiring a gear swap. I really hate swapping gear constantly and I dislike scroll healing. YMMV.
    I also dislike scroll healing and swapping out gear, which is why I am considering a hybrid to cetus' build. I am thinking some combination like 12F/4M/4Pal or 12F/6P/2M, this way I would still get the high saves, along with some sp and some additional pally goodness. This way I can use cocoon. I know that I lose the 1 monk Feat and adept of forms (meaning I will need to take this as a feat). I will also lose shadow Veil .

    I saw you mention something earlier about the ninja spy dex damage overriding the str damage on a bow. Is this still broken?

  7. #47
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    Interesting build I may take my old monster build this direction.
    May I ask a few questions?
    You mention using this build for past lives?

    When you level from 1-20 what weapons do you use? Wraps or THF?
    Also do you wear outfits or leather?

    Appreciate the help.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retrodark View Post
    I saw you mention something earlier about the ninja spy dex damage overriding the str damage on a bow. Is this still broken?
    It's fixed in U19 Patch 2.

    When you level from 1-20 what weapons do you use? Wraps or THF?
    Also do you wear outfits or leather?
    Outfits. Leather doesn't allow you to use stances. If I were to TR again, I'd probably use wraps since I have an excellent selection of them. Once I can use Sword of Shadows centered, then I'd use that.
    U19 Kensei: Centered Cleaver | TR Junkie Leveling Framework

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  9. #49
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    If you are permanently wearing Kundarak Delving Boots, consider the epic version. The colourless slot can hold either a +Heal skill augment (ridiculously hard to come by at the moment, but should drop more over time) or alternately, it could hold your True Imperial Blood, freeing up your helm's yellow slot to hold a 40 elemental resist or some other utility effect.

    Of course losing access to the boots from 9-19 (or 9-24 when the Blood is socketed) may just drive you crazy enough to decide not to do it.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  10. #50
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retrodark View Post
    I also dislike scroll healing and swapping out gear, which is why I am considering a hybrid to cetus' build. I am thinking some combination like 12F/4M/4Pal or 12F/6P/2M, this way I would still get the high saves, along with some sp and some additional pally goodness. This way I can use cocoon. I know that I lose the 1 monk Feat and adept of forms (meaning I will need to take this as a feat). I will also lose shadow Veil .

    I saw you mention something earlier about the ninja spy dex damage overriding the str damage on a bow. Is this still broken?
    I was thinking about 8 fighter 8 monk 4 paladin using centered citw weapons, only thing is less SP but better saves should help compensate that? 150 sp GS item and 200 archmagi, thats 370 counting the 20 from 4 pally right? then the wis mod so about 400 odd sp, 12 sp a pop with cocoon. Dont think i could find space for a lGS item. THough I do have red ferns necklace, bauble, spellstoring ring, and torc/con opt stuff.

    One put off is that DM is insight bonus so wont stack with some gear? And the stuff you have to spend on to get DM on pally tree isnt that great, maybe the extra damage vs undead for FOT, then....... extra smite?


    Another one is cleric instead of druid? with the new warpriest stuff, its not as tasty as 30% double strike but, that stacking extra damage would be great for parties raids on red name beat downs? Plus it has some nice stuff you need to get in order to qualify extra spell power, HP/PPR,

    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    Outfits. Leather doesn't allow you to use stances. If I were to TR again, I'd probably use wraps since I have an excellent selection of them. Once I can use Sword of Shadows centered, then I'd use that.
    Man SOS is so awesome with Keen edge, in greater mountain stance, cleave/great cleave, all your boosts and stuff like fists of iron. I went for the 2wf feats cause i got greensteel khopeshes though I do find myself switching in the SOS even without the 2hf feats, I think I do more single target dps with the 2wf but with multiple mobs, lag and the way mobs dance around I find myself often using the SOS over my green steel and prob my alchemical peshes.
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 09-25-2013 at 08:06 AM.

  11. #51
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    The nice thing about Carpone's build here and some of the other centered fighters is that it doesn't take 100 past lives or the absolute best gear/tomes to make a viable version. Cetus's build on the other hand needs hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours to be dumped into the game and in the end I can't really see how it's more viable even on a level playing field.

    The gear swap is what gets me though. Everyone hates to do that and it really takes a lot of the fun away from the game to meta that far.

  12. #52
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emerge2012 View Post
    The nice thing about Carpone's build here and some of the other centered fighters is that it doesn't take 100 past lives or the absolute best gear/tomes to make a viable version. Cetus's build on the other hand needs hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours to be dumped into the game and in the end I can't really see how it's more viable even on a level playing field.

    The gear swap is what gets me though. Everyone hates to do that and it really takes a lot of the fun away from the game to meta that far.
    -.-

    Cetus posted his build showing how he made his build.

    And as was discussed in the other thread, it's no more P2W than Carpone's build.

    Also the gear swapping is no different than just scroll healing yourself. You click to equip the scroll, then click it again to use. Ok, now place it on a weapon slot with a triple pos heal kama (or Longsword. If you're set up for greatswords, you're centered with longswords) takes exactly as long as just equipping a scroll. Then click again. I use that so much on my rogue (with Wand and Scroll mastery and a ship buff and 10% from enhancements) hitting me for 398 a pop that I almost don't rely on anything else.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    -.-

    Cetus posted his build showing how he made his build.

    And as was discussed in the other thread, it's no more P2W than Carpone's build.

    Also the gear swapping is no different than just scroll healing yourself. You click to equip the scroll, then click it again to use. Ok, now place it on a weapon slot with a triple pos heal kama (or Longsword. If you're set up for greatswords, you're centered with longswords) takes exactly as long as just equipping a scroll. Then click again. I use that so much on my rogue (with Wand and Scroll mastery and a ship buff and 10% from enhancements) hitting me for 398 a pop that I almost don't rely on anything else.
    You're right he did post the build and how it was made. Which means you should clearly be able to see that it requires at least +5 tomes and a ridiculous gear set to be viable. Don't even get me started on how people pretend as though all of the +5 tomes they all use were drops and not purchased for more than $50. Carpone's variation here doesn't need 90 str for stunning blow and charisma is completely dumped. This leaves str/con as focus stats just as anyone would even if they were new. Thus this build here is far more economical in terms of both time and resources.

    Gear swapping is gear swapping. If a player is going to build for cocoon they should probably use it and save themselves the trouble of swapping. Because like I said, excessive swapping takes the fun out of everything.

  14. #54
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emerge2012 View Post
    You're right he did post the build and how it was made. Which means you should clearly be able to see that it requires at least +5 tomes and a ridiculous gear set to be viable. Don't even get me started on how people pretend as though all of the +5 tomes they all use were drops and not purchased for more than $50. Carpone's variation here doesn't need 90 str for stunning blow and charisma is completely dumped. This leaves str/con as focus stats just as anyone would even if they were new. Thus this build here is far more economical in terms of both time and resources.

    Gear swapping is gear swapping. If a player is going to build for cocoon they should probably use it and save themselves the trouble of swapping. Because like I said, excessive swapping takes the fun out of everything.
    Cetus' build is posted using 2 +5 tomes, not a full set of +5's; if you've ever ran with our group of friends, or checked the Argo trade threads having 2 +5 tomes isn't that hard to fathom. So, no. He didn't buy +5 tomes from the store. You're assuming that, basing your assumptions on nothing at all.

    Carpone doesn't have a "variation" of the build. The two builds are entirely different, built with different play styles in mind and to accomplish different things entirely.
    If you knew the first thing about designing your own builds it would be fairly obvious. It's even more so when if you go through the various threads the two of them have debated the pro's and cons of each others builds and play styles.

    The reason Cetus' build pumps Cha so much(Not even that hard to do. +4 tome and some nice gear and you're sitting at 42 easy) is because it not only adds to saves on his build, something his build strives for, but it also adds to his stunning blow DC. Something Carpone's build lacks entirely. Carpones also doesn't get Cha to saves, so of course he would dump everything except Con/Str/Dex.

    So, to recap for you the builds are different, built to accomplish different things with different play styles, and given the gear sets listed for both the will take you the same amount of time to gear and max out the build. The only thing Cetus' build relies on that Carpone's doesn't is the 2 +5 tomes to meet stat requirements for feats, and he points that out in his thread.

    And your last point is, well, pointless... Cetus doesn't like Cocoon, and he doesn't use Cocoon. He uses heal scrolls. So why on earth would he build and gear for using Cocoon?
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    Cetus' build is posted using 2 +5 tomes, not a full set of +5's; if you've ever ran with our group of friends, or checked the Argo trade threads having 2 +5 tomes isn't that hard to fathom. So, no. He didn't buy +5 tomes from the store. You're assuming that, basing your assumptions on nothing at all.

    Carpone doesn't have a "variation" of the build. The two builds are entirely different, built with different play styles in mind and to accomplish different things entirely.
    If you knew the first thing about designing your own builds it would be fairly obvious. It's even more so when if you go through the various threads the two of them have debated the pro's and cons of each others builds and play styles.

    The reason Cetus' build pumps Cha so much(Not even that hard to do. +4 tome and some nice gear and you're sitting at 42 easy) is because it not only adds to saves on his build, something his build strives for, but it also adds to his stunning blow DC. Something Carpone's build lacks entirely. Carpones also doesn't get Cha to saves, so of course he would dump everything except Con/Str/Dex.

    So, to recap for you the builds are different, built to accomplish different things with different play styles, and given the gear sets listed for both the will take you the same amount of time to gear and max out the build. The only thing Cetus' build relies on that Carpone's doesn't is the 2 +5 tomes to meet stat requirements for feats, and he points that out in his thread.

    And your last point is, well, pointless... Cetus doesn't like Cocoon, and he doesn't use Cocoon. He uses heal scrolls. So why on earth would he build and gear for using Cocoon?
    Didn't realize I said he does use cocoon. Must have been an oversight by an overexcited cheerleader. And obviously there was zero need to say the two of you run together, that's plainly obvious.

    Now, the builds go for different things? Even though one build goes for player skill and the other goes for mindless zerg rush I'd say the end goal is very much the same. It's not exactly a secret that skilled players can do more with bad builds/gear than lazy players can do with top tier everything. The build in this thread is for skilled players. Cetus's build is an end game version of the Evasion Paladin for New Players.

  16. #56
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emerge2012 View Post
    Didn't realize I said he does use cocoon. Must have been an oversight by an overexcited cheerleader. And obviously there was zero need to say the two of you run together, that's plainly obvious.

    Now, the builds go for different things? Even though one build goes for player skill and the other goes for mindless zerg rush I'd say the end goal is very much the same. It's not exactly a secret that skilled players can do more with bad builds/gear than lazy players can do with top tier everything. The build in this thread is for skilled players. Cetus's build is an end game version of the Evasion Paladin for New Players.
    Lol, so you have to pollute both threads with your nonsense?

    I'm sorry that you feel overwhelmed with the gear investment, not to mention all that money that it takes to build, zero of which I payed. Funny how that works...

    Like ara said, dex and wisdom are the only tomes needed for the build. One of which you can EASILY acquire with this new mabar event. Fighter and paladin past lives are the most important for useful tactics and efficient self healing. Thats all you need in addition to the gearset to make the build work. Hell, sacrifice 5% doublestrike and pick up epic tactician if you really want to make up for the tactics loss from completionist, and enjoy.

    Something tells me that this response still won't be satisfying =D
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  17. #57
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emerge2012 View Post
    Didn't realize I said he does use cocoon. Must have been an oversight by an overexcited cheerleader. And obviously there was zero need to say the two of you run together, that's plainly obvious.

    Now, the builds go for different things? Even though one build goes for player skill and the other goes for mindless zerg rush I'd say the end goal is very much the same. It's not exactly a secret that skilled players can do more with bad builds/gear than lazy players can do with top tier everything. The build in this thread is for skilled players. Cetus's build is an end game version of the Evasion Paladin for New Players.
    Yeah, they're built for different things in mind. Carpones build is based around Improved Evasion; Screw saves, I'll take half damage from everything because I can deal with that amount of damage, or something similar to that anyways.

    Cetus' build is build partially around Evasion and maxing saves to a no-fail level.

    Both are about skills, and neither are about mindless zerg-rushhing content.
    Unless you mean to say that soloing EE WGU takes no skill?

    And your stance here makes no sense; You constantly complain about the gear/tome requirements of Cetus' build, but you believe it's a build for new players?
    What new players do you know who have completionist?
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
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  18. #58
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    Yeah, they're built for different things in mind. Carpones build is based around Improved Evasion; Screw saves, I'll take half damage from everything because I can deal with that amount of damage, or something similar to that anyways.

    Cetus' build is build partially around Evasion and maxing saves to a no-fail level.

    Both are about skills, and neither are about mindless zerg-rushhing content.
    Unless you mean to say that soloing EE WGU takes no skill?

    And your stance here makes no sense; You constantly complain about the gear/tome requirements of Cetus' build, but you believe it's a build for new players?
    What new players do you know who have completionist?
    I think maybe he saw cletus's build and went wow......then he read the stuff cetus has to make his build work and he got bitter and angry. I don'ts has dat stuff DIS BUILD IS ****!!! I HATE YOU CETUS YOUR USELESS!!!!

  19. #59
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    I HATE YOU CETUS YOUR USELESS!!!!
    I believe this is the most sig worthy thing to ever be written on these forums.
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
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  20. #60
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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