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  1. #1
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    Default Any build actually using Eldritch Knight?

    From what I've heard/read there is no viable build focusing on EK. Is the spec just severely underpowered or why are there no good builds focusing on it?

  2. #2
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordaine View Post
    From what I've heard/read there is no viable build focusing on EK. Is the spec just severely underpowered or why are there no good builds focusing on it?
    Wizard is atrocious at the moment full stop not just EK.

    Sorc is a bit better and synergises well with Paladin for an EK build.
    It also synergises with Bard but then you're probably going to be taking mainly from either Swashbuckler or Warchanter trees rather than from EK.

    The thing is that if you're going to go Melee on a Caster Class you really need to multiclass it and therefore hurt your caster side severely - There are plenty of Melee Sorcs around {Bladeforged usually} still though.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    you're probably going to be taking mainly from either Swashbuckler or Warchanter trees rather than from EK
    This is exactly what I mean

  4. #4
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    EK has always been a weak PrE; all the buffage to other melee classes since last summer makes it more so. I've pitched EK builds before; but honestly it's about finding better ways of adding melee DPS than anything the EK tree gives you.

  5. #5
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    Hi,

    I'm pretty sure there was a thrower build which used EK for the Tier 5 Tenser's Transformation ability.

    The idea was to boost the rate of attack as high as possible. It wasn't something I'd describe as a wizard though, as the levels in that class were only a splash.

    In PUGs I've also run into a couple of people using EK for their melee wizards builds, but they are pretty rare. The ones I saw performed reasonably well, but that may have been due to good gear and player skill rather than the build itself.

    Thanks.
    Astrican on Khyber

  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    I'm pretty sure there was a thrower build which used EK for the Tier 5 Tenser's Transformation ability.

    The idea was to boost the rate of attack as high as possible. It wasn't something I'd describe as a wizard though, as the levels in that class were only a splash.
    If you're talking about Meteor Shower or builds like it, those predate the latest buffs to rog & rgr. There's no good reason to go T5 EK rather than Mechanic or DWS instead. Even T5 Harper is probably better than perma-Tensers now.

  7. #7
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    THF fighter 8 Wiz 12 EK/PM works well. PM for wraith and self heal mostly, not much left for fighter AP. But he has worked well* in EH at least all the way to 27 where he is now. 1st lifer (but 32pt build), horc.


    *my definition of that being 'can get through quests, doesn't usually die'. I'm not claiming amazing DPS or speed.
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  8. #8
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    While EK is not my primary Tree I do use it for my Elf 12/8 Ftr/Wiz AA/EK Archer build.

    I use the EK for the Cleave and Improved Mage Armor and Improved Shield spell. I also use the single Elemental Stance as it the elemental buff does apply to range attacks.

    I also use Medium Armor as it is a balance of Dodge and PRR/MRR. I do utilize Elf Grace for Dexterity to damage.

    I think this tree works better with a multi-class. A pure Wizard/Sorcerer would be a Tougher build for the EK. While it could work I don't think its melee DPS and Defense will be optimal. But it could work even if you don't go DPS but opt to go more towards Secondary Effects (Better at heroic at this time due to Epic recovery rates)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    If you're talking about Meteor Shower or builds like it, those predate the latest buffs to rog & rgr. There's no good reason to go T5 EK rather than Mechanic or DWS instead. Even T5 Harper is probably better than perma-Tensers now.
    Hi,

    That's a fair point, but the question was whether or not any builds used EK.

    Even with the recent improvements to other classes which may supercede EK thrower builds, I wouldn't describe the Meteor Shower as severely underpowered relative to content. Though it did require certain key items of gear to perform anywhere near its potential.

    There is more power to permanent Tenser's than some people suspect because the increase in attack speed directly translates to more DPS through weapon damage, additional effects like sneak attack, and weapon procs. If you build around hat effectively, I think the EK tree is actually better than it initially appears.

    Thanks.
    Astrican on Khyber

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    There is more power to permanent Tenser's than some people suspect because the increase in attack speed directly translates to more DPS through weapon damage, additional effects like sneak attack, and weapon procs. If you build around hat effectively, I think the EK tree is actually better than it initially appears.
    Tenser's can be scrolled, though.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Tenser's can be scrolled, though.
    Hi,

    Yes, though the short duration makes it kind of a pain to keep up. If you have enough wizard levels casting it is a good alternative.

    Thanks.
    Astrican on Khyber

  12. #12
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    This would work. Just toggle Quicken when you are mobbed. Otherwise just evade when you need to cast. New Build
    Wizard 20
    Warforged


    Stats
    . . . . . . . .36pt. . .Tome . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . --------
    Strength. . . . 16 . . . +6. . . .4: INT
    Dexterity . . . 14 . . . +6. . . .8: INT
    Constitution. . 14 . . . +6. . . 12: INT
    Intelligence. . 18 . . . +6. . . 16: INT
    Wisdom. . . . . .6 . . . +6. . . 20: INT
    Charisma. . . . .6 . . . +6. . . 24: INT
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT


    Feats

    .1. . . . : Two Handed Fighting
    .1 Wizard : Mental Toughness
    .3. . . . : Power Attack
    .5 Wizard : Maximize Spell
    .6. . . . : Combat Casting
    .9. . . . : Mobile Spellcasting
    10 Wizard : Heighten Spell
    12. . . . : Improved Two Handed Fighting
    15. . . . : Mithral Body
    15 Wizard : Quicken Spell
    18. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
    20 Wizard : Improved Mental Toughness
    21 Epic . : Greater Two Handed Fighting
    24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
    26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
    27 Epic . : Epic Mental Toughness
    28 Destiny: Elusive Target


    Enhancements (80 AP)

    Warforged (9 AP)
    • Improved Fortification, Warforged Constitution, Improved Fortification II, Warforged Constitution II
      1. Inscribed Armor III

    Eldritch Knight (46 AP)
    • Eldritch Strike, Spellsword: Acid, Spellsword II: Shock, Spellsword III: Frost, Spellsword IV: Acid, Eldritch Blade
      1. Improved Mage Armor III, Toughness III
      2. Improved Shield III, Martial Training, Wand and Scroll Mastery III
      3. Arcane Barrier III, Critical Accuracy III, Intelligence
      4. Critical Damage III, Intelligence
      5. Tenser's Transformation, Still Spell III, Doublestrike III, Eldritch Tempest III

    Harper Agent (25 AP)
    • Agent of Good I, Intelligence, Agent of Good II
      1. Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness III, Strategic Combat
      2. Versatile Adept III
      3. Versatile Adept III, Strategic Combat, Intelligence
      4. Magic of Austerity, Intelligence
    Last edited by Enderoc; 10-03-2015 at 05:35 PM.
    Main Characters: Korkoch the Cruel, Everwyrm...Thelanis

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordaine View Post
    From what I've heard/read there is no viable build focusing on EK. Is the spec just severely underpowered or why are there no good builds focusing on it?
    Funny you ask. I just started working on my EK again the last few weeks. I am running an Int-based pure wizard. When EK first came out was pretty well balanced against the other classes/trees. Now I'd say there is nothing weaker than EK.
    Wizenmann (29th life Completionist Cleric), Diotimae (13th life Tank), Malwida (7th life Rogue Mechanic), Iraenilee (4th life Sorc), Garainth (3rd life Bard), Stirner (3rd life Paladin), and a grip of others. Sole member of Solipsists United on Ghallanda.

  14. #14
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    I've been trying to focus on INT because of the harper tree as well.
    Multiclassing is no problem to me. The first problem I see are the cooldowns of his cleave skills. 12 and 30 seconds are way too high to be able to focus on melee. The scaling of his melee dmg is also very poor. 0-4 dmg (~2 dmg) per level for his cleave, which also costs 10 SP to use AND has a delay for this bonus dmg seems way too lackluster to me. And this is the best ability you get in this tree. The rest of the tree has a really strange concept to it. The scaling of the cleave abilities scale with character(not caster) level, which promotes multiclassing, then you have alot of enhancments which unlock martial weapons or armor, which really does the opposite. And you have wand specialization.. As someone who is supposed to melee. Wand specialization.. Are there melee wands?
    The only good things I see are the tier 5 enhancements, for which you need to spend/waste 30 points.

    I loved playing an elven Figher/Wizard back in AD&D, but it seems this concept is just not working anymore.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordaine View Post
    I've been trying to focus on INT because of the harper tree as well.
    Multiclassing is no problem to me. The first problem I see are the cooldowns of his cleave skills. 12 and 30 seconds are way too high to be able to focus on melee. The scaling of his melee dmg is also very poor. 0-4 dmg (~2 dmg) per level for his cleave, which also costs 10 SP to use AND has a delay for this bonus dmg seems way too lackluster to me. And this is the best ability you get in this tree. The rest of the tree has a really strange concept to it. The scaling of the cleave abilities scale with character(not caster) level, which promotes multiclassing, then you have alot of enhancments which unlock martial weapons or armor, which really does the opposite. And you have wand specialization.. As someone who is supposed to melee. Wand specialization.. Are there melee wands?
    The only good things I see are the tier 5 enhancements, for which you need to spend/waste 30 points.

    I loved playing an elven Figher/Wizard back in AD&D, but it seems this concept is just not working anymore.
    The cleaves are a big problem, and as you noted all of the other abilities are sub-par when you compare them to just about everything in the other trees. That said, if your heart is really set on this type of build, it is viable at 28. It is well below the top shelf stuff. So when you are pugging with really good players in super duper builds your going to feel like a non-contributor. Nevertheless, you can still solo most EE content, if that's a consolation. I'm having fun on my gimpy EK.
    Wizenmann (29th life Completionist Cleric), Diotimae (13th life Tank), Malwida (7th life Rogue Mechanic), Iraenilee (4th life Sorc), Garainth (3rd life Bard), Stirner (3rd life Paladin), and a grip of others. Sole member of Solipsists United on Ghallanda.

  16. #16
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    It synergies well with Archmage (Evoc). The plus to force damage helps with spamming magic missiles, and adds some survivability. Definitely of secondary focus, though.

    Elibolas
    There is no chance I'm reading that grammatical disaster.

  17. #17
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    New Build Weapon Finesse is just to help boost attacks with your off hand weapon...I would use a more damaging weapon in your main hand. Like Battle Axe with Rapier. It would be a no DC caster of course...the extra damage from spellsword, plus the critical hit elements from shroud toggles. Now this is just a theory, but with some cursepewing weapons, the negative level from vampire form, and the extra damage from spellsword to negotiate strength for higher reflex and AC...You could definitely sap some mobs...not so much in max DPS but as a way to bring down DCs for the other players.

    18/2 Wizard/Ranger
    True Neutral Human


    Level Order

    1. Ranger . . . . .6. Wizard. . . . .11. Wizard . . . . 16. Wizard
    2. Ranger . . . . .7. Wizard. . . . .12. Wizard . . . . 17. Wizard
    3. Wizard . . . . .8. Wizard. . . . .13. Wizard . . . . 18. Wizard
    4. Wizard . . . . .9. Wizard. . . . .14. Wizard . . . . 19. Wizard
    5. Wizard . . . . 10. Wizard. . . . .15. Wizard . . . . 20. Wizard



    Stats
    . . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt. . .34pt . . 36pt . . Tome. . .Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .---- . . ---- . . ----. . .--------
    Strength. . . . 16. . . .16 . . . 16. . . .16. . . .+6 . . . 4: DEX
    Dexterity . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . 10. . . .12. . . .+6 . . . 8: DEX
    Constitution. . 10. . . .14 . . . 14. . . .14. . . .+6 . . .12: DEX
    Intelligence. . 18. . . .18 . . . 18. . . .18. . . .+6 . . .16: DEX
    Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . .8. . . . 8. . . .+6 . . .20: DEX
    Charisma. . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . .8. . . . 8. . . .+6 . . .24: DEX
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: DEX


    Skills
    . . . . . R .R. W .W. W .W. W .W. W .W. W .W. W .W. W .W. W .W. W .W
    . . . . . 1 .2. 3 .4. 5 .6. 7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Concent . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
    Heal. . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
    Spellcr . 2 . . 3 .2. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
    Move Si . 4 .1. . .½. 1 .1. 1½ 1½ 1½ 1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
    Spot. . . 4 .1. . . . . . . . . . . .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .½. 13
    UMD . . . 2 .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ . . 11
    Search. . 4 .1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5
    Jump. . . 4 .1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5
    Swim. . . . .4. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Repair. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2. .2
    Balance . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
    Tumble. . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
    Haggle. . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .44 11. 7 .7. 7 .7. 8 .8. 8 .8. 8 .8. 8 .8. 9 .9. 9 .9. 9 .9



    Feats

    .1. . . . : Power Attack
    .1 Human. : Toughness
    .1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    .3. . . . : Combat Casting
    .3 Wizard : Extend Spell
    .6. . . . : Weapon Finesse
    .7 Wizard : Maximize Spell
    .9. . . . : Mobile Spellcasting
    12. . . . : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    12 Wizard : Heighten Spell
    15. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
    17 Wizard : Mental Toughness
    18. . . . : Improved Mental Toughness
    21 Epic . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
    26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    27 Epic . : Epic Mental Toughness
    28 Destiny: Holy Strike


    Enhancements (80 AP)

    Human (1 AP)
    • Damage Boost

    Pale Master (32 AP)
    • Dark Reaping, Zombie Form, Vampire Form, Wraith Form, Lich Form
      1. Deathless Vigor III, Spell Critical, Negative Energy Conduit III
      2. Spell Critical, Bone Armor III
      3. Cloak of Night III, Spell Critical, Intelligence
      4. Spell Critical, Intelligence

    Eldritch Knight (39 AP)
    • Eldritch Strike, Spellsword: Acid, Spellsword II: Shock, Spellsword III: Flame
      1. Improved Mage Armor III, Toughness III
      2. Improved Shield III, Light Armor Proficiency, Wand and Scroll Mastery III
      3. Critical Accuracy III, Dexterity
      4. Medium Armor Proficiency, Critical Damage III, Dexterity
      5. Doublestrike III, Eldritch Tempest III

    Tempest (3 AP)
    • Shield of Whirling Steel
      1. Whirling Blades

    Arcane Archer (5 AP)
    • Arcane Archer
      1. Conjure Arrows, Corrosive Arrows
    Last edited by Enderoc; 10-04-2015 at 05:41 AM.
    Main Characters: Korkoch the Cruel, Everwyrm...Thelanis

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Hi,

    That's a fair point, but the question was whether or not any builds used EK.

    Even with the recent improvements to other classes which may supercede EK thrower builds, I wouldn't describe the Meteor Shower as severely underpowered relative to content. Though it did require certain key items of gear to perform anywhere near its potential.

    There is more power to permanent Tenser's than some people suspect because the increase in attack speed directly translates to more DPS through weapon damage, additional effects like sneak attack, and weapon procs. If you build around hat effectively, I think the EK tree is actually better than it initially appears.

    Thanks.
    At some point EK will get revamped and then the perma tensor for throwers could be competitive again. It would need to offer 10 rp to compete with mechanic (which also gives 10% doubleshot). Mechanic also gives 10 with fletching at tier4 making the AP investment very good for throwers.

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  19. #19
    Community Member Blastyswa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordaine View Post
    From what I've heard/read there is no viable build focusing on EK. Is the spec just severely underpowered or why are there no good builds focusing on it?
    I just TRed out of 18/1/1 Wizard/Rogue/Fighter, using Eldritch Knight and Lich form. I wish there was some good redeeming value to it, but sadly I can't come up with anything. I had workable EE CC and decent greatsword damage, along with workable instakills in older EE's and great trapping from having int as my primary stat. While it performed just fine in EE content, this was largely due to raid gear/past lives. The only things really useful about eldritch knight were shield for PRR, Mage Armor for AC (Had 167 at 28) eldritch cleave (mostly to assist reset momentum swing and provide a little more AoE) and Tenser's Transformation. I was also able to have 0% ASF in Heavy Armor using EK and a -15% augment.

    Even with cores up to 18, +4-16 damage didn't really do much. I forgot to turn it on several times, and didn't notice it unless I paid attention to the additional damages from my weapon; the damage is negligible. I had 25% doublestrike, but hardly any of that actually came from Eldritch Knight. The Radiant Forcefield automatic turn on under 50% health was the only reason I had any deaths playing the build, because its so abrupt and largely animated that it gives me 3-4 seconds of intense lag.

    So to answer your original question, yes I have played a viable build focusing on EK. However, it was by no means an optimal build; It required maxing enchantment DC, melee DPS, a t3 mortal fear weapon, many pieces of raid gear, and still wasn't leading the kills in groups with other fast paced people playing revamped builds. The one thing I can say I really liked about it is the cold spellsword toggle makes your weapon look cool.

    Have you considered 19/1 Warlock/Sorcerer?
    Dazling, officer of Divach Ruin, 3x Completionist life 48+
    Sterben, officer of Divach Ruin, life 11+
    Meaning, leader of The End (Permadeath guild)
    Cannith Server

  20. #20
    Community Member Ghwyn's Avatar
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    The build in my sig uses EK as the primary enhancement. Like any other good build, you have to take advantage of its strengths. For me, it was the two extra cleave attacks and asf reduction. Having six cleave attacks on separate timers is great dps. The force field is a great reminder to heal, and I never had any lag issues with it. My EK build is my favorite to play, and I have tried many.
    Gwhyn Saige - heroic and epic completionist, loving the EK build
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...elee-wizard-EK

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