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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenaphon View Post
    Personally I think going Drow is much better than human. Extra 2DC is better than extra 28HP.
    2 DC?

    As crazy as it sounds, the build is a little tight on skill points if you want full trapping plus max ranks in concentration, spellcraft and heal. Human helps for this.

    While leveling, (until you get really good Necro spells) Its better to go with AM with evocation (chain missile and magic missile).
    I'm unimpressed with the AM force SLAs for leveling. Give me a webby firewall any day.

    Extend is most useful for death aura. It does work to drop extend for empower to focus on AM force SLAs, though.

  2. #22
    Community Member Heathir's Avatar
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    Default Love the build

    Okies--

    I went with a shadar kai iconic to make my pale trapper:

    Number one at lvl 15 the build without the human feat can trap monkey elite heroic at level (thank you ellis for showing me)
    Number two amazing build, although i butchered your enhancements to get the sla's becuase of mana issues
    Number three 200% fort in wriath form with 100% fort belt (thanks for pointing that out)

    This is such a fun build!!!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    2 DC?
    He probably means the 3 extra Int. 2 starting, and 2 enhancement, versus Human 1 enhancement. Plus, a potential +1 Enchant DC.

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    As crazy as it sounds, the build is a little tight on skill points if you want full trapping plus max ranks in concentration, spellcraft and heal. Human helps for this.
    Versus Drow? How? Drow's starting +2 Int exactly equals Human's +1 skill point per level.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    He probably means the 3 extra Int. 2 starting, and 2 enhancement, versus Human 1 enhancement. Plus, a potential +1 Enchant DC.
    Ah, gotcha.

    Versus Drow? How? Drow's starting +2 Int exactly equals Human's +1 skill point per level.
    Duh! Mental lapse on my part.

  5. #25
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I kind of punted on researching those. Hellball or Ruin may be the greatest thing ever, so check them out a little first before committing.

    Opinion / quick comment on the first epic destiny feat and L27 feat:

    1) The +5 Spell Craft (essentially +5 USP to all, excpet Heal/Repair/Perform) is nice considering all of the spells that a Wizard can cast. It covers more ground than +20 to one specialty. On my Druid, I did +20 Cold, but regret it. +5 USP would be more useful overall

    2) I love Ruin. It's expensive to cast, but there is no save. Impulse + Metas = good damage. I haven't tried Hell Ball.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    The Archmage school you choose is totally up to you; the build as written takes conjuration for the web SLA until level 15, when we get dancing ball. At that point we reset the archmage tree and switch to enchantment SLAs. The archmage school ends up getting +1 dc, so you might consider going necro instead of enchant at 15. I definitely recommend the web sla while leveling, though. With free heighten!
    While I got heavily inspired by your build (I play a WF AM/Rogue 2, Enchantment focused), why didn't you take the Enlarge feat? Because especially all the CC and Evocation spells (other than rays) profit a lot from double range. I can hardly imagine how to play a Wiz without enlarged spells. Use throwing weapons? Perhaps Palemasters do melee more often, but it's pretty annoying not to reach enemies far away and with rays only. And Dancing Ball I'd say, even quickened it's not as good as the various types of Mass xxx (suggestion, charm, hold) because of its casting time. Though I have the Ball slotted, I rarely cast it, mostly when I've got enough time before a fight starts and because pugs often demand it (reason? I don't know. It feels a lot weaker than other spells). The Web is good to cc Undead, but most of the time a firewall and/or chain lightning put them out of combat faster^^

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    why didn't you take the Enlarge feat?
    Enlarge is quite nice, for sure. My cleric loves it, but I'm so used to not having it on my pale master that I don't miss it.

    Out of curiosity, what did you drop for it? Extend? (That would be my guess as the least disruptive feat to drop.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Xenaphon View Post
    Personally I think going Drow is much better than human. Extra 2DC is better than extra 28HP.
    I've been thinking about this over the last few days. I think drow is the superior choice for 36pt builds, but for first life characters -- particularly new players -- the extra 58 hp can be really helpful. (Drow get -2 con and humans can take toughness with the human bonus feat, which adds up to 58 hp @ 28.)

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Out of curiosity, what did you drop for it? Extend? (That would be my guess as the least disruptive feat to drop.)
    Yes. I'd also suggest to take Quicken earlier than Level 17, Level 15 maybe, because casting the Dancing Ball without it really is a pain, especially in combat. In fact I do not feel the need to use Quicken but for this spell only. I'd rather drop Quicken for another feat and do not cast the ball at all, because it isn't that great either, at least according to my experience. Perhaps you know what this spell makes so extraordinary?

    As a first lifer at Level 1 I took Augment Summoning instead of Toughness, because Hires get much more useful with this feat when it's about to activate stat-based Runes/Levers (like Clerics able to activate Str-based levers) and charmed/dominated/controlled mobs also should get a bit tougher as the description says.

  9. #29

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    What makes dancing ball so good is that it's persistent.

    I too generally only use quicken for dancing ball (and negative energy burst), but keep it on full time for all spells when running EE. I don't run much EE content, but doing EE chrono and ADQ with guild raids showed me the value of quicken.

    What did (or would) you take as your level 17 bonus feat? Pushing Necromancy focus to 17 and greater necromancy focus to 18 seems awfully late to me, so I don't think I'd be comfortable doing that. Pushing heighten that late would undercut the value of the SLAs while leveling. Maximize? Empower? Not much else qualifies as a wizard bonus feat.

  10. #30
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    I'd take the Spell Focus instead of Empower and move Empower to Lvl 18. Especially as a new player/first lifer SP would be pretty low without magus gear/archmage hat and with Heighten and Maximize the spells deal enough damage (and cost enough SP).

  11. #31

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    I definitely wouldn't want to push Empower late. Empower has "take early" written all over it.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    The simplest method for leveling is to get a level-appropriate tower shield (but don't equip it), then cast aura & displacement and run around gathering up a dozen or so mobs, cast firewall or ice storm, equip the tower shield, then stand there in the middle of the aoe and shield block until everything is dead. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    Displacement halves the incoming damage, aura keeps you healed, the aoe does the killing. Do not do any casting with a shield in your hand, do not ever cast negative energy burst except in the most dire circumstance, and aura should be doing very little of the damage against mobs.
    On the "turtle mode" thing - anyone know if Riposte procs on blur/displacement, or is it only on "straight" miss? Now that it seems to be common in random drops...

    (Riposte apparently counts as "misadventure" so doesn't show numbers, and doesn't seem to go in the combat log...?)
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

  13. #33

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    Now that blue augments drop on lootgen shields like candy I'm looking to slot in a PRR augment on my turtle shield.

    I still think crafted shields will be the best. Start with the highest base type you can equip, slap on +5 enhancement bonus and axeblock, then craft up a spearblock one-hander to go in the mainhand of the turtle weaponset and you're good to go. Slot PRR into the shield for extra goodness.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I still think crafted shields will be the best. Start with the highest base type you can equip, slap on +5 enhancement bonus and axeblock, then craft up a spearblock one-hander to go in the mainhand of the turtle weaponset and you're good to go. Slot PRR into the shield for extra goodness.
    ...sure, when I'll actually be able to craft those.

    Will be a good while before I can craft better than lootgen.
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by mna View Post
    ...sure, when I'll actually be able to craft those.

    Will be a good while before I can craft better than lootgen.
    Axeblock and spearblock are low level recipes, and a +5 enhancement bonus shard can be bought from a crafter. Just ask in trade channel in either crafting hall; odds are that you'll just have to pay the cost of the shard.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I definitely recommend the web sla while leveling, though. With free heighten!
    I don't understand this. As near as I can tell the best you can do is get heighten down to one spell point per level of heightening. How do you get 'free' heighten?

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Panpiper View Post
    I don't understand this. As near as I can tell the best you can do is get heighten down to one spell point per level of heightening. How do you get 'free' heighten?
    Metamagics are free when applied to SLAs, so if you take the conjuration school for archmage you get a Web SLA, which can be heightened for free.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Metamagics are free when applied to SLAs, so if you take the conjuration school for archmage you get a Web SLA, which can be heightened for free.
    Does this mean that an archmage could cast Cloudkill (on top of that web) using Enlarge, Heighten, and Quicken for only 15 spell points? All metamagics on SLAs are completely free? If so, I have to now completely readjust my analysis.

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Panpiper View Post
    Does this mean that an archmage could cast Cloudkill (on top of that web) using Enlarge, Heighten, and Quicken for only 15 spell points? All metamagics on SLAs are completely free?
    Yep.

  20. #40
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    I am going to necro this thread. And it is about a Necro, heh.

    Ok why rogue and not monk? Wizards get spells that can open locks and doors right? 2 monk gives you evasion. The wisdom is in the toilet, that is true.

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