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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by elyssaria View Post
    I am interested in trying out a druid spell caster, but from what I see it appears that the DC's of casters are not enough to be able to do the Epic Elite content with satisfactory?

    Is this the same for the Druid as for the other casting classes?
    Fortitude saves are the worst. I wouldn't count on a Druid's Finger of Death being very effective. Earthquake is Reflex though, and, especially since it's persistent, should be effective against many mobs.

  2. #62
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    Default Earthquake DC 87?

    Druid 20 Human (neutral)

    LEVEL 1
    Abilities Raised: CON: 18, WIS: 18, INT 12
    Feats: Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell

    LEVEL 3
    Feats: Past Life Wizard

    LEVEL 6
    Feats: Empower Spell

    LEVEL 9
    Class: Druid
    Feats: Enlarge Spell

    LEVEL 12
    Class: Druid
    Feats: Heighten Spell

    LEVEL 15
    Class: Druid
    Feats: Completionist

    LEVEL 18
    Class: Druid
    Feats: Spell Focus Evocation

    LEVEL 21
    Feats: Greater Spell Focus Evocation

    LEVEL 24
    Feats: Epic Spell Focus Evocation

    LEVEL 26
    Feats: Epic Spell Power Cold

    LEVEL 27
    Feats: Great Ability Wisdom

    LEVEL 28
    Feats: Epic Spell Power Electricity

    Wisdom = 18 +7 level-ups +2 alchemical +11 enhancement item +3 Insightful item +1 exceptional item +1 litany of the dead +2 completitionist +6 destiny +1 great ability wisdom +5 tome +2 ship buffs +1 human adaptability +2 nature's warrior enhancements +2 season's herald enhancements +2 hierophant capstone = 66

    Alchemical heavy shield: crystal, impulse +90, air, magnetism +90, water, alchemical wisdom +2, fire, arcane augmentation IX, efficient metamagic maximize II, red augment slot

    Evocation DC = 10 +9 heighten spell +28 wisdom modifier +1 active wizard past life +3 epic spell focus evocation +3 magister evocation specialist +2 draconic precise casting evocation +2 spell focus mastery item (???) +5 sage's locket +3 past lives sorcerer +1 season's herald strength of the solstice +4 mantle of icy soul = 71

    MAX Earthquake DC = 10 +9 heighten spell +28 wisdom modifier +1 active wizard past life +3 epic spell focus evocation +3 magister evocation specialist +2 draconic precise casting evocation +2 spell focus mastery item (???) +5 sage's locket +3 past lives sorcerer +1 season's herald strength of the solstice +4 mantle of icy soul +5 solid fog +2 autumnal sussurs +10 magister evocation augmentation = 88

    Shiradi Champion:
    - healing spring x2, wisdom x6, fey form x3, double rainbow, nerve toxin x1

    Epic Destinies Twists:
    draconic precise casting evocation, magister evocation specialist, magister evocation augmentation

    Offensive tactic against 1 or 2 mobs:
    1) Transform in water elemental and cast mantle of the icy soul (to slow and debuff the targets of your ice spells);
    2) grab the attention of the enemy A and cast word of balance sla (6 sp, 15 secs cooldown), creeping cold sla (3 sp, 8 secs cooldown) + call lightning sla (6 sp, 8 secs cooldown) + greater creeping cold (20 sp);
    3) when call lightning sla 8 seconds cooldown ends, and while creeping cold damages the first mob in its 12 seconds duration, grab the attention of the enemy B and cast creeping cold + call lightning + greater creeping cold;
    4) return to point 2.

    Crowd control tactic:
    1) *sunburst sla (4sp, 26 secs cooldown);
    2) *sunbeam (15 sp);
    3) quickened earthquake + ice storm + quickened sleet storm + storm of vengeance sla for mass crowd control.

    *sunburst and sunbeam inflicts a "permanent" blind effect that causes the enemies to walk very slowly and randomly swinging their weapons, making them almost useless in combat (tested in epic elite).

    Achievements:
    - Sentinels of Stormreach epic elite solo at level 20
    Last edited by Michele; 11-14-2013 at 03:47 AM.

  3. #63
    Community Member Panzermeyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michele View Post
    MAX Earthquake DC = 10 +9 heighten spell +27 wisdom modifier +1 active wizard past life +3 epic spell focus evocation +3 magister evocation specialist +2 draconic precise casting evocation +2 spell focus mastery item (???) +5 sage's locket +3 past lives sorcerer +1 season's herald strength of the solstice +4 mantle of icy soul +5 solid fog +2 autumnal sussurs +10 magister evocation augmentation = 87
    I thought heighten would only add a +9 to a lvl 1 spell, +4 to a 5th level spell etc.

    Earthquake is an 8th level spell, so unless I am mistaken Heighten will only add +1 to your Earthquake DC's.
    Panzermeyer - Huge Terry Brooks Shannara Fan

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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michele View Post
    Wisdom = 18 +7 level-ups +11 enhancement item +3 Insightful item +1 exceptional item +1 litany of the dead +2 completitionist +6 destiny +1 great ability wisdom +5 tome +2 ship buffs +1 human adaptability +2 nature's warrior enhancements +2 season's herald enhancements +2 hierophant capstone = 64
    OK, missing a few possibilities, but not too bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michele View Post
    MAX Earthquake DC = 10 +9 heighten spell +27 wisdom modifier +1 active wizard past life +3 epic spell focus evocation +3 magister evocation specialist +2 draconic precise casting evocation +2 spell focus mastery item (???) +5 sage's locket +3 past lives sorcerer +1 season's herald strength of the solstice +4 mantle of icy soul +5 solid fog +2 autumnal sussurs +10 magister evocation augmentation = 87
    Except that includes a whole bunch of stuff that doesn't affect your DC at all. If you want to include de-buffs, how about UMD-ing some Enervation scrolls, too? So:

    87
    -2 because they nerfed Spell Focus Mastery stacking
    -4 some random mob de-buff irrelevant to your DC (Icy)
    -5 some random mob de-buff irrelevant to your DC (Fog)
    -2 some random mob de-buff irrelevant to your DC (Autumnal)
    -10 some random mob de-buff irrelevant to your DC (Augmentation)
    = 64...which is ballpark to the 68 I have listed in the OP for Druid/Evocation, just shy 8 points of Wisdom.

    I'm not saying de-buffing isn't useful or effective; it is. But it's not part of your DC.

    Also: thanks for pointing out Strength of the Solstice. I haven't played a Druid since the enhancement update, so I wasn't tracking that one. OP updated with that.
    Last edited by SirValentine; 11-11-2013 at 01:48 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panzermeyer View Post
    I thought heighten would only add a +9 to a lvl 1 spell, +4 to a 5th level spell etc.

    Earthquake is an 8th level spell, so unless I am mistaken Heighten will only add +1 to your Earthquake DC's.
    He just said 10 + 9, which is correct with Heighten for all spell levels.

    Yes, Heighten only adds 1 to Earthquake, but then you also have to list the 8 from being an 8th level spell separately. It totals to the same regardless of the specific spell.

  6. #66
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    I posted the DC of earthquake spell.
    enervation is single target so is not good.
    when you cast an earthquake you always cast an icestorm without metamagic, making all those debuffs always hittings the mobs inside it (except -10 magister evocation augmentation that procs 15% of times but I still have to test it).

    remember that the tics of ice storm and earthquake are a lot, so the proc rate of the debuffs is very high.
    autumnal sussurs (40%) is procced by both earthquake and storm of vengeance SLA, so autumnal sussurs debuff always hit the mobs.

    the -4 mantle of icy soul is always available, for example by using creeping cold sla (or, as I said, ice storm without metamagic).

    solid fog -5 hits 100% of times the mobs inside the earthquake.

    In my opinion debuffs are always part of the DC calculation when you play epic elite... or do you expect to play epic elite with a caster who is able to hit mobs without debuffs?

    For example I would include -3 improved sunder when I make the calculation of stunning blow DC.

    The debuffs that I listed are all sustainable and easily castable by a druid.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    OK, missing a few possibilities, but not too bad.



    Except that includes a whole bunch of stuff that doesn't affect your DC at all. If you want to include de-buffs, how about UMD-ing some Enervation scrolls, too? So:

    87
    -2 because they nerfed Spell Focus Mastery stacking
    -4 some random mob de-buff irrelevant to your DC (Icy)
    -5 some random mob de-buff irrelevant to your DC (Fog)
    -2 some random mob de-buff irrelevant to your DC (Autumnal)
    -10 some random mob de-buff irrelevant to your DC (Augmentation)
    = 64...which is ballpark to the 68 I have listed in the OP for Druid/Evocation, just shy 8 points of Wisdom.

    I'm not saying de-buffing isn't useful or effective; it is. But it's not part of your DC.

    Also: thanks for pointing out Strength of the Solstice. I haven't played a Druid since the enhancement update, so I wasn't tracking that one. OP updated with that.
    Last edited by Michele; 11-12-2013 at 02:44 AM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michele View Post
    In my opinion debuffs are always part of the DC calculation
    I'm sorry you don't understand the difference between the mob's save versus your DC. I'm even sorrier that you think that a matter of fact is somehow a matter of opinion.

    I'm trying to calculate actual DCs here. If you want to start some other thread where you list mob debuffs, feel free to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michele View Post
    do you expect to play epic elite with a caster who is able to hit mobs without debuffs?
    No, I expect them to use debuffs, because they are useful and effective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michele View Post
    The debuffs that I listed are all sustainable and easily castable by a druid.
    That's nice. I bet all that makes your Earthquake very effective. Oh, and if you hover your cursor over the spell on your hotbar, it should show you your DC, too.

  8. #68
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    it's just a missing tooltip (it's easy to calculate: see the dc of call lightning with heighten spell and it's the same of earthquake).
    also stunning blow does not have a tooltip showing the DC, but it's easy to calculate.

    also yesterday I tested sage's locket +4 evocation DC and iron cloak of the dragon and they stack by giving a total of +5 evocation DC (on call lightning).

    also sage's locket stack with scholar of the twelve on ship.

    but scholar of the twelve +1 DC doesn't stack with iron cloak of the dragon.

    so I think in heroic level you can get up to +5 evocation DC from items.

    I didn't tested +5 epic sage's locket together with +2 adamantine cloak of the dragon: can someone test them and see the DC of an evocation spell? (I'm currently level 18 and I can't test them).

    You should add scholar of the twelve +1 evocation buff in your first post: if you don't believe me, just try crafting a +2 evocation item and then take scholar of the twelve buff and you will see the DC of your evocation spell increasing by 3 (I know that the ddo wiki says "not stacking" but I see the DC increasing by 3).

    I made these tests the 11 of december 2013.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    That's nice. I bet all that makes your Earthquake very effective. Oh, and if you hover your cursor over the spell on your hotbar, it should show you your DC, too.
    Last edited by Michele; 11-12-2013 at 04:53 AM.

  9. #69
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    hehe Michele we are in November

  10. #70
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    LOOOL AHAHAHAHAH
    true true, my mistake :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Miow View Post
    hehe Michele we are in November

  11. #71
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    Patch 20.1 has caused school-specific DC-boosting Yellow Augments to stack, allowing another +2 our DCs.

    (Sadly, Spell Focus [Mastery] doesn't stack and is still useless. They SHOULD make it NOT stack with the new augments, but stack with normal DC-boosting items.)

    I'll update the OP with new DC totals at some point here.

  12. #72
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    Also, a personal update on my character: I'm currently knocking out my penultimate Heroic life, and will soon be TRing to what I'm expecting will be my "final" life, at least for the medium-term future. This will be a Completionist with x3 PLs for Clr, FvS, Sorc, and Wiz. I'm going for a pure caster Cleric.

    I'm planning on going Necro-focused, and will be sitting at the 66 Necro DC I have mentioned in the (updated) OP, along with a low-60s Evo, and other schools further behind. If 66 Necro proves quite ineffective, I'm ready to LR to Evoc-focused; a 71 Evoc might work where a 66 Necro doesn't. I'll be posting how it goes, if anyone's interested.

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    Favored Soul only:

    +1 Half-elf Dil enhancement


    Quick check: does this line mean going helf elf as a FVS will give me +1 wisdom over going human?

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldgolem View Post
    Favored Soul only:

    +1 Half-elf Dil enhancement

    Quick check: does this line mean going helf elf as a FVS will give me +1 wisdom over going human?
    Yes. Clerics have 3 class trees to grab +Wisdom from, so Half-elf doesn't gain them there, but with only 2 trees, FvS can get +1 more Wisdom enhancement from Half-elf.

    It does put you down a feat though, so it's not necessarily a straight win. Especially if it means you can't fit in one of your Great Wisdom feats because of it.

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Cleric only:
    +4 Tree #1 (2 Wisdom plus capstone) (either of Divine Disciple or Radiant Servant)
    +2 Tree #2 (either other Cleric tree)
    +1 Tree #3 (the 3rd Cleric tree or Half-elf Dil)
    --
    +7 from Cleric class enhancements
    (Alternatively, with a Monk splash, the lowest-tier Ocean stance grants exactly the same +2 Wisdom as the capstone)
    +5 without capstone if taking Monk splash & 3 feats for highest Ocean stance
    A monk splash can get +6 from cleric enhancements, not +5. (Two from each tree since don't need to spend 41 points in a single tree for captsone.)

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Also, a personal update on my character: I'm currently knocking out my penultimate Heroic life, and will soon be TRing to what I'm expecting will be my "final" life, at least for the medium-term future. This will be a Completionist with x3 PLs for Clr, FvS, Sorc, and Wiz. I'm going for a pure caster Cleric.

    I'm planning on going Necro-focused, and will be sitting at the 66 Necro DC I have mentioned in the (updated) OP, along with a low-60s Evo, and other schools further behind. If 66 Necro proves quite ineffective, I'm ready to LR to Evoc-focused; a 71 Evoc might work where a 66 Necro doesn't. I'll be posting how it goes, if anyone's interested.
    im definetly interested thankyou.

    im 3 lives off what you are trying and as you will be there
    way before me it will help me immensly plan out my final life.

    if posible could you give details of a quest ran in epic, i know
    this is alot to ask but it would be most helpful if you could.

    here's hoping and thankyou again.

    your friend sil

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    A monk splash can get +6 from cleric enhancements, not +5. (Two from each tree since don't need to spend 41 points in a single tree for captsone.)
    Right, thanks. I'm planning to make those changes to the original post. I just haven't yet. Sometime in the next week, probably.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    A monk splash can get +6 from cleric enhancements, not +5. (Two from each tree since don't need to spend 41 points in a single tree for captsone.)
    Original post updated with this. Ok, so it took me like a month to get to it, but done now.

    For schools other than Evocation and Conjuration, this nets +1 more maximum DC, due to have a sustainable Wisdom of 74 instead of 73. (For Evoc & Conj, having a 73 instead of 72 doesn't get you any higher DC.)
    Last edited by SirValentine; 01-11-2014 at 10:37 AM.

  19. #79
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Original post updated with this. Ok, so it took me like a month to get to it, but done now.

    For schools other than Evocation and Conjuration, this nets +1 more maximum DC, due to have a sustainable Wisdom of 74 instead of 73. (For Evoc & Conj, having a 73 instead of 72 doesn't get you any higher DC.)
    I like the thread.

    You may want to add a note in the OP that not all Divine DCs are based on Wisdom. Typically the Divine spells or Spell-Like-Ability DCs in the Divine Epic Destiny Exalted Angel are based on the higher of Wisdom OR Charisma.

    A max Charisma PDK FvS can have a good to-hit/damage with melee, extremely high saves, among the highest Diplomacy to shed agro, high UMD, & good DCs on at least Divine Wrath & Avenging Light (both of which have saves for half damage).

    Pretty neat to get, from one stat, high saves, decent melee, UMD, and decent DCs on two good spells (especially on a build focusing on light damage from spells and light damage from melee using Celestia).

    Thought you may want to at least make a note that a few Divine DCs can leverage Charisma instead...
    Last edited by Nodoze; 01-11-2014 at 02:44 PM.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodoze View Post
    I like the thread.

    You may want to add a note in the OP that not all Divine DCs are based on Wisdom. Typically the Divine spells or Spell-Like-Ability DCs in the Divine Epic Destiny Exalted Angel are based on the higher of Wisdom OR Charisma.

    A max Charisma PDK FvS can have a good to-hit/damage with melee, extremely high saves, among the highest Diplomacy to shed agro, high UMD, & good DCs on at least Divine Wrath & Avenging Light (both of which have saves for half damage).

    Pretty neat to get, from one stat, high saves, decent melee, UMD, and decent DCs on two good spells (especially on a build focusing on light damage from spells and light damage from melee using Celestia).

    Thought you may want to at least make a note that a few Divine DCs can leverage Charisma instead...
    don't forget energy burst and hell ball.

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