Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1

    Default Metamagics for non-caster classes

    There are plenty of ed abilities/dragomarks that can enable non caster classes to cast spells. However, if you want to take metamagic feats (witch are only restricted to player being able to cast spells) you will still need to multiclass with some of the caster classes.

    It does make some sence from a lore perspective... On the other hand any caster can take power attack/cleaves with no multiclass required witch is also kinda sensless.

    I think this should be fixed. Your thoughts?
    NESALOMLJIVI, Thelanis

  2. #2
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    8,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    There are plenty of ed abilities/dragomarks that can enable non caster classes to cast spells. However, if you want to take metamagic feats (witch are only restricted to player being able to cast spells) you will still need to multiclass with some of the caster classes.

    It does make some sence from a lore perspective... On the other hand any caster can take power attack/cleaves with no multiclass required witch is also kinda sensless.

    I think this should be fixed. Your thoughts?
    I dont think its senseless for *casters* to have access to power attack cleave though I don't see why they cannot lessen the restrictions and allow classes without spells to have access to meta magic feats.

  3. #3
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,710

    Default 100% agreed with naturalhazard

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalConcreteSledge View Post
    There are plenty of ed abilities/dragomarks that can enable non caster classes to cast spells. However, if you want to take metamagic feats (witch are only restricted to player being able to cast spells) you will still need to multiclass with some of the caster classes.

    It does make some sence from a lore perspective... On the other hand any caster can take power attack/cleaves with no multiclass required witch is also kinda sensless.

    I think this should be fixed. Your thoughts?
    Less options is almost never preferable, casters should continue to be able to use melee feats, a feat every 3 lvls is supposed to signify when culmination of the training you've been doing for the last 3 levels, there is no reason any class couldnt practice with a sword.

    In the past, it would've been easy to say that non caster shouldn't get metamagics like maximize if they don't have any offensive spells to practice with, however with this enhancement pass you can get racial SLAs, so that argument isn't too valid anymore in my opinion.

    Let anyone take any feat they want, more options is better.

  4. #4

    Default

    /signed

    It would really help out one of my builds to be able to take a metamagic at level 1. (Level 1 being a rogue level.)

  5. #5
    Community Member count_spicoli's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    925

    Default

    /signed I would agree with this.

  6. #6
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    2,313

    Default

    Yes.

  7. #7
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,446

    Default

    While you're at it, give Dismiss Charm to all classes as well.

  8. #8
    The Hatchery
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Dandonk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    5,282

    Default

    With all the SLAs and dragonmarks and stuff, sure, why not.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  9. #9
    2014 DDO Players Council
    SirValentine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Korea (temporarily)
    Posts
    5,427

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JollySwagMan View Post
    While you're at it, give Dismiss Charm to all classes as well.
    YES! I first suggested the need for Dismiss Charm for more classes literally years ago. Clerics have had a charming spell for years, and have not been able to dismiss it.

    Now, through EDs, any class can charm, right?

  10. #10
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    4,587

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    It would really help out one of my builds to be able to take a metamagic at level 1. (Level 1 being a rogue level.)
    Personally, I really really wish this game would stop bleeding farther and farther away from D&D. However, as we're already past the point where we could bandage and heal that wound - and as major surgery is (I'm assuming) not an option - sure... *** why not... It makes just as much sense for a rogue to take a metamagic feat at level 1 as it does for an uncentered monk splash to benefit from evasion...
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  11. #11

    Default

    I imagine some non-bluebar melees wouldn't hate taking empower healing spell for rejuvenation cocoon. Toss in 1 ranger level for +75 devotion, 100 SP and echoes of power and you're good to go.

    Fortunately I don't care a whit about moving further away from the P&P origins.

  12. #12
    2014 DDO Players Council
    SirValentine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Korea (temporarily)
    Posts
    5,427

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Personally, I really really wish this game would stop bleeding farther and farther away from D&D.
    So you support opening up metamagics, then?

    Because the metamagic feats do NOT have a caster-class-levels prerequisite in pen-and-paper.

  13. #13
    Community Member Dagolar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,877

    Default

    I don't see any reason Metas and Dismiss Charm SHOULDN'T be opened up, anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraphim View Post
    Fly? That would break every quest in the game. You would see folks falling from the sky in Korthos and dying. It would be a rain of newbs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    Yeah. It's not "we nuked the city from orbit", it's "the city experienced a brief population drop". Check.

  14. #14
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    4,587

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    So you support opening up metamagics, then?
    Support? Not even close.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Because the metamagic feats do NOT have a caster-class-levels prerequisite in pen-and-paper.
    That's because spells -and meta feats- worked entirely differently in pnp. Please tell me what use a rogue, fighter etc would do with a meta (ie maximize) that took a lvl 1 CLW and caused it to require a lvl 4 slot of that days allotted spells? iirc destinies didn't exist in pnp, and metas didn't apply to SLAs either...
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  15. #15
    Community Member enochiancub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    1,116

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Personally, I really really wish this game would stop bleeding farther and farther away from D&D. However, as we're already past the point where we could bandage and heal that wound - and as major surgery is (I'm assuming) not an option - sure... *** why not... It makes just as much sense for a rogue to take a metamagic feat at level 1 as it does for an uncentered monk splash to benefit from evasion...
    I like the cut of your jib.

    Main: 18 Artificer, Thelanis

  16. #16
    2014 DDO Players Council
    SirValentine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Korea (temporarily)
    Posts
    5,427

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Support? Not even close.
    Oh, so you DO want DDO to be farther from P&P D&D, then?

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Please tell me what use a rogue, fighter etc would do with a meta (ie maximize) that took a lvl 1 CLW and caused it to require a lvl 4 slot of that days allotted spells?
    In pen and paper D&D, that Rogue or Fighter could take that Maximize feat without restriction.

    Whether it's USEFUL is entirely beside the point.

    EDIT: Oh, it could be useful in p&p for the same reason it's sometimes desired in DDO: a multiclass build starting with a non-caster class might want to start with that feat so they can use it later with their caster classes.
    Last edited by SirValentine; 08-18-2013 at 12:06 PM.

  17. #17
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Waiting in the lava pits to chain trip you on the way to Prison of the Planes
    Posts
    1,507

    Default

    Are we signing? Whatever. /signed!

    Now is the time to do it, especially with Iconics like PDK and Bladeforged begging to be turned into... well sorcs in both cases, but maybe a bard too in PDK's case.

    Either way, they're much more fun if you don't have to burn the level 1 feat on nonsense. Even dodge is a pain at level 1 since you can't have given them a dex tome to eat yet.
    Khyber: Aggrim (Completionist!)
    All of my builds are grossly out of date. Just roll a human or drow mechanic / assassin rogue thing.
    Blind insta-kills floating eye balls.

  18. #18
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,018

    Default

    Maybe just change the prereq for metas to [class level X] or Level 21, ie make them Epic feats for non-caster classes.

    Otherwise, especially with things like the Halfling DMs, you're essentially giving away class levels in Cleric for the cost of a feat or two and some enhancements. Non-caster SLAs should be inferior versions to the spellbook versions for cross-class use.

  19. #19
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    4,587

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Oh, so you DO want DDO to be farther from P&P D&D, then?
    In pen and paper D&D, that Rogue or Fighter could take that Maximize feat without restriction.
    Whether it's USEFUL is entirely beside the point.
    Lol, very true. In pnp you had even more freedom to hose your character than in DDO. The feat didn't need a "caster only" restriction, because people only took things that they found useful & productive.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    EDIT: Oh, it could be useful in p&p for the same reason it's sometimes desired in DDO: a multiclass build starting with a non-caster class might want to start with that feat so they can use it later with their caster classes.
    This scenario does have some merit, though I don't see a situation where it would be detrimental to the build to take a non-caster feat before having caster levels.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload