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  1. #101
    Community Member Ellihor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Yeah, that doublestrike is quite nice. However, damage aside, Sireth makes lightning rain down. What does eSoS have to compare to giant bolts of lightning?

    However, sireth bonus effects add up to 8.75+9.15+10.5, or 28.4 - which makes up for the base damage in favour of eSoS. (And base damage would be a closer gap when you consider monk staff mastery, if you get it.) Not playing nicely with cleaves is a PITA though.
    And it has fom too. For me it seems sireth is the way because I dont have a litany too and really dont want to grind for it.

  2. #102
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    What stat & feat changes would you recommend for a 1st life 32 point human with a set of +5 tomes?

    Since the +5 tomes won't be applied till level 19 in this first life I will likely will eat a +1/+3 Int or +2/+4 Int while leveling to max skill points in the first life. What other tomes will be required to get the feats (I can likely drop up to +3's on stats while leveling).

    EDIT: Should we drop the Feat 7. Zen Archery until the Ninja Dex for damage bug is fixed and if so what would you put in it's place?

    EDIT2: Since first lifer starting with no gear it seems like Sireth/Pinion would be the best direction in short/medium term. Would the Villagers of Eveningstar Commendation staff 'Stout Oak Walking Stick' be a good stand in until Sireth can be acquired?

    EDIT3: Never played monk with staff. What action point swaps would be recommended and what would be a good staff to get from the AH around level 15 (until you can get the 'Stout Oak Walking Stick' at level 20 if that is a decent option).
    Last edited by Nodoze; 09-09-2013 at 05:33 PM.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    Huh?

    The otilukes is exactly the reason why saving with evasion is so much better. If you have ellies blasting you with otilukes, even half damage from improved evasion still results in getting whooped versus taking no damage at all, especially when you have 3-5 of them on you.
    Zerg tanking on epic elite isn't a strategy that leads to survivability. If it's not epic elite, then the damage from Otiluke's isn't meaningful enough to matter.

    Also, improved evasion has nothing to do with your fort save - which is just as important as reflex in the hardest end fight in this update.
    10 minutes of Unmoveable is plenty of time to ward off Petrify effects for the end fight of What Goes Up.

    With the pally, its very easy to reach a 60 will save, I seldom get held with my boots off - which LD's unstoppable fixes easily. Boots slot better used for more meaningful gear if you can easily get a workable will save.
    I'm not lacking any meaningful effects from my gearset by using Kundark Delving Boots. I also run with enough Shiradi casters that I prefer the immunity to Grease.

    If Unstoppable actually works now against Hold Person, then that's another strike against building for Will saves.
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  4. #104
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    But Unstoppable has a cool-down of three minutes.

    It's not reliable enough to use in WGU.

  5. #105
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    Zerg tanking on epic elite isn't a strategy that leads to survivability. If it's not epic elite, then the damage from Otiluke's isn't meaningful enough to matter.

    No? I tend to use that strategy...a lot. Its assumed that we're talking about EE btw, EN/EH isn't worth any attention.


    10 minutes of Unmoveable is plenty of time to ward off Petrify effects for the end fight of What Goes Up.

    Whats the point...when you can just have a static no fail fort save. You'll forget to click it, or an end fight in there may last longer than 10 minutes if you fall into a pinch, etc... Otherwise, why would you consider having a tertiary doublestrike boost a benefit of the druid splash, 30 boosts for 30 seconds each is like 15 minutes, 5 minutes of which is used when you have no more unmovables to use =D.

    I'm not lacking any meaningful effects from my gearset by using Kundark Delving Boots. I also run with enough Shiradi casters that I prefer the immunity to Grease. Well, thats mostly because you ignore tactics and saves on the build (you include combat mastery 5 in your net change list, but its a totally meaningless change)

    If Unstoppable actually works now against Hold Person, then that's another strike against building for Will saves.
    Well, thats one way to look at it if you seek to strengthen an already pre determined argument. The way I look at it is just as an oh sh!t button in case I roll crappy against an otherwise savable hold.
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  6. #106
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    Is Weapon Focus: Ranged taken solely for 1 to hit with bows ?
    Wouldn't even less "popular" feats like Power Critical, Quick Draw, Force of personality or Magical Training be better choices ?
    Or Precision for ranged only ( gasp !).
    Last edited by Encair; 09-09-2013 at 09:27 PM.
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  7. #107
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    Is Weapon Focus: Ranged taken solely for 1 to hit with bows ?
    Wouldn't even less "popular" feats like Power Critical, Quick Draw, Force of personality or Magical Training be better choices ?
    Or Precision for ranged only ( gasp !).
    Taken because it's a prereq for Bow Str

  8. #108
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    Is Weapon Focus: Ranged taken solely for 1 to hit with bows ?
    Wouldn't even less "popular" feats like Power Critical, Quick Draw, Force of personality or Magical Training be better choices ?
    Or Precision for ranged only ( gasp !).
    Yea, its a pre -req, otherwise I'd fit in precise shot and probably drop GTHF for Improved precise shot.

    Precision isn't bad too, but toggling that between PA is a pain in the ass.
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  9. #109
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    To Carpone:

    In the end:

    - Tactics are receiving no attention, so your ability to CC aggro is non-existant.

    - Saves are EE failures -

    a) fortitude save reaches no fail zone with unmovable clicky, assuming that your buffs are maintained. Also, superior parrying is counted in your 54 fort save, yet you change it out for the bracers of twisting change in the post U19 gear setup. Then you aren't even no fail against FTS/disintegrate WITH unmovable clicky, because you reach a 70 against a 72 or 73 disintegrate/FTS DC.

    b) Reflex save is very bad. Saves will fail consistently, and improved evasion will only cut it in half. It is much more efficient to save with evasion and take zero damage (especially when multiple enemies are casting - which, with these mob densities, happens) than to always cut damage in half, and eat the incoming damage.

    c) Will saves - the argument was that they are neglected because boots take care of FOM. Yet, harpies throw players helpless all the time, shadavers and other casters throw up symbols of stunning, I have also been commanded during the shadaver spawn before.

    - No ranged capability, the argument was that bow strength is non-functional..etc, but experience with ranged consistently proves to be effective, and the damage fluctuated with my strength bonus. Losing ranged, imo, is a costly decision whatever the case maybe with bow strength at the moment.

    - DPS is lower considering the use of a lower threat range cleaver with fists of iron available + the ignorance of strength from power surge + divine might. Furthermore, the loss of ranged ability becomes a DPS loss due to versatility in situations such as pillar sniping or blitz support.

    - Loss of a twist and feat in support of cocoon. Heal scrolls hitting for 317 a pop + emergency LOH's + sovereign pots (these drop from gold rolls like candy) circumvent the need for such a heavy feat + twist investment.

    - Your PRR is much better, but that can be easily accommodated with the 12/6/2 split if some DPS sacrifice is acceptable. Personally, I didn't do it - but a 12/6/2 can achieve comparable PRR values - and still pull much further ahead in all aspects, use sireth to maintain threat range for fists of iron and PRR set bonus for instance.

    those are just my thoughts on the differences between the builds given practical experience in EE stormhorns.
    Last edited by Cetus; 09-09-2013 at 09:48 PM.
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  10. #110

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    Cetus,
    What would you change to get the same PRR as Carpone's build? I really like the idea of having 90 PRR and 70 evasion save and doing dps

  11. #111
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yynderjohn View Post
    Cetus,
    What would you change to get the same PRR as Carpone's build? I really like the idea of having 90 PRR and 70 evasion save and doing dps
    It'll require some DPS sacrifice, but you can do this:

    12 Master Earth Stance
    24 PRR Ring (this will screw up your tactics situation if you wear dun robar/consuming darkness, or your SA if you had avithoul ring on..etc)
    15 Set bonus with, say sireth or cleaver
    10 Epic feat (drop completionist, ranged feat, or stunning blow if you are screwing over tactics with the prr ring)
    15 Twist (Lose either brace for impact or dance of flowers, losing dance of flowers is a terrible idea in my mind because I'm a DPS guy)
    15 Shintao Enhancement (this will cut into your str/tactic from kensei, ninja spy poison, and probably the third tier human con boost/healing amp tier)


    91 Static PRR and still killer saves

    If you REALLY wanted to...you can hit up the defender line:

    15 PRR from stance and +3 saves

    106 PRR
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  12. #112
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post

    106 PRR
    LOL . . . as a light-armor + heavy-shield evasion tank with WORSE saves could barely get that much PRR. Hence why I abandoned it.

    Turbine, your game is BROKEN!

    Great build though Cestus, If I can find a way to make a non-terrible Horc version I might try it out.

  13. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    It'll require some DPS sacrifice, but you can do this:

    12 Master Earth Stance
    24 PRR Ring (this will screw up your tactics situation if you wear dun robar/consuming darkness, or your SA if you had avithoul ring on..etc)
    15 Set bonus with, say sireth or cleaver
    10 Epic feat (drop completionist, ranged feat, or stunning blow if you are screwing over tactics with the prr ring)
    15 Twist (Lose either brace for impact or dance of flowers, losing dance of flowers is a terrible idea in my mind because I'm a DPS guy)
    15 Shintao Enhancement (this will cut into your str/tactic from kensei, ninja spy poison, and probably the third tier human con boost/healing amp tier)


    91 Static PRR and still killer saves

    If you REALLY wanted to...you can hit up the defender line:

    15 PRR from stance and +3 saves

    106 PRR
    Yeah losing completionist is no issue for me lol. You have to remember that most people prob have 3-4 past lives at most on a toon.

  14. #114
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    If you REALLY wanted to...you can hit up the defender line:

    15 PRR from stance and +3 saves
    You gain 10 PRR from Stalwart Defense (lvl 6 core) which you need to use defensive stance; and another 15 PRR from Imp Stalwart Defense.

  15. #115
    Community Member Ellihor's Avatar
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    I have asked already, i think you missed it. What is bane of undead twist for?

  16. #116
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    You gain 10 PRR from Stalwart Defense (lvl 6 core) which you need to use defensive stance; and another 15 PRR from Imp Stalwart Defense.
    Ah, missed that - so its another 10 on top of the projected number

    so..116

    Ellihor:

    Bane of undeath is for turn undead, you need it for your divine might to actually have charges.
    Last edited by Cetus; 09-10-2013 at 01:50 PM.
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  17. #117
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    Ah, missed that - so its another 10 on top of the projected number

    so..116

    Ellihor:

    Bane of undeath is for turn undead, you need it for your divine might to actually have charges.
    At the cost of being immune to rage, I think.

  18. #118
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    At the cost of being immune to rage, I think.
    Yea, I don't really find it necessary because I'm centered on damage (pun intended =D).

    Just saying that its possible to reach a nice PRR on this very split if they wanted to, and still maintain amazing saves.

    Sireth:

    I just remembered that it gets a .5 W expansion as part of an upgrade, its actually looking even nicer the more I think about it - however, the AP's are insanely tight -

    With my tentative AP expenditure and gear change to accommodate the planar conflux, its looking like - +2 str, -4 cha, -25% healing amp, -3 con (which is -2 fort save).

    Gains: 15 PRR, Sireth use, +25% doublestrike for 10 seconds w/ 20 second cooldown, 1d4 neg level attack from top tier henshin mystic (great to augment tactics on more difficult opponents btw, looking forward to this one), 3 liberated feats, possibility of lightning mace for extra situational doublestrike...

    DPS:

    Sireth profile: 3.0 base + 1.5 dance + .5 Improved PA = 5d10 = 27.5 average

    Esos: 2.5 + 1.5 + 5 = 4.5(2d6) = 9d6 = 31.5

    So, 4 point base damage difference, but sireth gets 4 conflux. Esos is +10 versus sireth +8 and had litany, so 4-3 = 1 point toward sireth, closing the average damage by a point, = 3 dmg.

    Now count the supreme good, 3d6 damage per hit = 10.5 average damage, sireth already pulls ahead.

    Then add: Cloudburst, Lightning Strike, 25% doublestrike for 10 seconds every 20 seconds, 1d4 neg level attack, situational extra .5 W from badger under 50% health.

    Subtract: Glancing blows on cleaves (this one sucks), and loss of 2 damage from weapon specialization. Haven't decided on a definitive feat layout with the 3 extra feats yet.
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  19. #119
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    Yea, I don't really find it necessary because I'm centered on damage (pun intended =D).

    Just saying that its possible to reach a nice PRR on this very split if they wanted to, and still maintain amazing saves.

    Sireth:

    I just remembered that it gets a .5 W expansion as part of an upgrade, its actually looking even nicer the more I think about it - however, the AP's are insanely tight -

    With my tentative AP expenditure and gear change to accommodate the planar conflux, its looking like - +2 str, -4 cha, -25% healing amp, -3 con (which is -2 fort save).

    Gains: 15 PRR, Sireth use, +25% doublestrike for 10 seconds w/ 20 second cooldown, 1d4 neg level attack from top tier henshin mystic (great to augment tactics on more difficult opponents btw, looking forward to this one), 3 liberated feats, possibility of lightning mace for extra situational doublestrike...

    DPS:

    Sireth profile: 3.0 base + 1.5 dance + .5 Improved PA = 5d10 = 27.5 average

    Esos: 2.5 + 1.5 + 5 = 4.5(2d6) = 9d6 = 31.5

    So, 4 point base damage difference, but sireth gets 4 conflux. Esos is +10 versus sireth +8 and had litany, so 4-3 = 1 point toward sireth, closing the average damage by a point, = 3 dmg.

    Now count the supreme good, 3d6 damage per hit = 10.5 average damage, sireth already pulls ahead.

    Then add: Cloudburst, Lightning Strike, 25% doublestrike for 10 seconds every 20 seconds, 1d4 neg level attack, situational extra .5 W from badger under 50% health.

    Subtract: Glancing blows on cleaves (this one sucks), and loss of 2 damage from weapon specialization. Haven't decided on a definitive feat layout with the 3 extra feats yet.
    On that note, something I wondered about today. I can't remember when Pulverizer is added into the crit range equation. If you have the Henshin +1 range and multi, and then have Pulverizer what would that make the Stout Oak stick? If it applies before the improved crit then it would be a 15-20/x4 stick with some tactical knockdown abilities. If both apply afterwards, then it would be a 17-20/x4. Either way it's still a really nice alternative weapon and a very capable toy to have in EE content when you're cleaving. Then also have whatever that top tier ability is and you might have a weapon that's utility might even out-weigh the Sireth in some situations.

  20. #120
    Community Member tpbtoc's Avatar
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    Have you considered Warforged/Bladeforged for this build? They have nice racial enhancements like: + fortification, + HP, + tactics, +saves, + damage and also weapon attachment (+0.5 weapon damage). They also have repair amplification but im not sure it´s good enough for self healing...

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