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  1. #21
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    1) Agree with Carpone about the 8th Druid level for Vorpal Wolf - looks interesting though, to the point that I'm about to log onto lamma to see if I customize it to my own satisfaction.

    2) Melee Arti / Barb could be okay. Dwarven waraxe + Glancing Blows from rune arm in off-hand + Con to damage isn't the worst idea I've ever heard, but I don't really get what it IS. Dps sounds like it would be mediocre, no incorporeal or castable displacement or particularly much dodge and being limited to Medium armour I query it's use as a tank. Self-healing will also be limited to scrolls while not-raging, which sounds okay, but difficult in practice. I don't know.

    I could be convinced, but suspect you'd need to be very good at this game to make that character fun and effective.

    3) Ice King amuses me. I 'get' the sorc 3 cold savant thing; it's an interesting thought and there's some nice stuff there... but I don't know. Not for me, but someone might get a lot of enjoyment out of it.

    4) Quarterstaff build, no idea. Until I pull a Sireth I'm not going to think about them.

    5) I loathe the arti/mechanic build. I have no idea what 6 rogue is bringing to that party apart from Int to-hit. Since you probably want Combat Archery anyway, or at least Improved Precise Shot, Dex to-hit is absolutely fine.

    I see these on live and in these forums often and it just saddens me. It's a really dumb split.

    2 Rogue for Evasion I faintly maybe understand since you don't want to loose the level of skills that 2 Monk would give you, but to me it's still insane.

    Summary: Rogue/Artificer provide almost 0 synergy to each other in any department and the 6 rogue splash gimps the character immeasurably beyond what pure rogue or pure arti or 18/2 arti give.


    Genuinely interesting builds though. I'm taking Vorpal Wolf and 3 sorc splashes away as concepts I hadn't considered at all.
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  2. #22
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    This is some Ideas one of the testers came up with. This is just an example of some things to play around with when this goes live next week. I'm not going to post the actual builds, what fun is that.

    Barbificier (Barbarian / Arti)
    Concept: This build focuses around the concept of using the Dwarf enhancement Throw Your Weight Around and Glancing Blow enhancement/feats. Main focus should be on Constitution. Eventually with Throw your Weight around you can use your Con for damage with Dwarven Waraxes. Next focus should be increasing your Glancing Blow damage/proc change. Feats such as Two-Handed Fighting, and enhancement that increase this should be prioritized. Try and find sources of Con and damage/attack speed increasing buffs (at the end of this build you will be using Tenser’s Transformation, Rage, and Attack Speed Action Boost).
    Class Distribution: 12 Artificer, 8 Barbarian (MUST BE DWARF); Build becomes feasible around level 5/6
    Enhancement/Item Focus: Dwarven Waraxe, Constitution Items, Health/Off Tank

    and the reward for actually making Artificer even harder to pronouce goes toooo....you

    So Bard/Arty+ D-axe so obviously you have the runearm and I'm guessing its and Int/Con build but this build focuses on the THF line so it needs at least 17 Base Str so either you have a 13 Str and a +4 toome and you rely on Int for to-hit and con for damage which isn't a bad idea if you got tomes to spare and I'm gguessing its a buff and rage build so the "no casting whilst raged" is less of an issue.

    Overall interesting idea not sure how it would work in practice though regardless it just sounds fun

    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    Ice King
    Concept: ALL THE ICE DOTS (note, this build will be stomped if you are fighting creatures with cold invulnerability). This build mostly focuses around Creeping Cold and Greater Creeping Cold. Focus on taking any Cold/Universal Spellpower, and Cold/Universal Spell Crit. Since druid cold dots don’t have saves you only need to give yourself enough Wisdom to cast level 9 spells (19 Wisdom). Since this number can easily be obtained I put everything into Con (excess build points are up to you). Eventually you are going to become a DoT caster who can take a beating (I gained Heavy Armor Proficiency and threw a suit of Dragon Armor on myself). Note that the 3 Sorcerer is to give you a little extra Water Savant Cold power via their enhancement tree.
    Class Distribution: 17 Druid, 3 Sorcerer; Build becomes feasible around level 5/6
    Enhancement/Item Focus: Empower/Max Metamagics, Crit chance feats/items (mental toughness line), Toughness line (including Epic Toughness), Cold Spellpower. Tank items/enhancements/feats (as much as you want).
    Hehe I have a Light Armor Evasion Tank wizard that discovered the same fun little lack of save/sr inherent in alot of cold spells. He's a Wizard12/Fighter6/Rogue2/Epic1...unfortunately none of the EDs really suit this build so I'm kinda of just hoping from one to another trying them out. Not sure what I'm going to do with my next life. Thinking maybe Bladeforged Sorceror either Sorc18/Pally2 or Sorc18/Pally2/Monk or Rogue2 Str/Cha....or maybe PDK? Cha/Con build. Can't wait for you guys to unlock TRing for them.


    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    Quarterstaff Rog / Monk
    Concept: This build is all about the Quarterstaff. With the new enhancement system you are able to stack many damage boosting enhancements. Ultimately when you are not beating your enemies to death with a big stick you are tripping them to do bonus damage, sneak attack them to some extent, or dodging/evading enemies. Other things of interest with this build include: Staff Tripping using Dex for DC, and Vaulting (yep it’s a thing), enhancement/stances that increase your attack speed (Monk Stance Line). A pretty straight forward build.
    Class Distribution: 12 Rogue, 8 Monk (any Dex giving Race); Build becomes feasible right away (though 2 levels to gain 1 rogue and 1 monk)
    Enhancement/Item Focus: All the Dex, Best Quarterstaffs you can get. Drip DC increasing.
    Just gotta say props on the tripping focus of q-staff trees its very flavourful and makes me want to play one again just need to figure out which race to go...maybe dwarf..its not optimal but I kinda like the idea that a drunken dwarf grabbed a pool cue in a bar fight and realized it was actually a fairly effective weapon. Now he smacks anybody with it just for fun.


    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    Crossbow Arti / Rog
    Concept: Similar to the Quarterstaff build, but with Crossbows. Ultimately there are 2 ways you can go about making this build. You can go about making an Int based crossbow user (rogue mechanic at core enhancement at level 6) which will help with Artificer spellcasting, a larger repertoire of trained skills (jack of all trades), and potential assassination bonuses. Dex based crossbow users follow more closely the Dex based ranged feat line and only require 4 rogue (to get the crossbow damage bonus line). Higher Dex will grant you things you’d expect (both build have Evasion; and stealth gameplay becomes easier). Ultimately the choice is yours.
    Class Distribution: At least 6 Rogue, and 12 Artificer (last 2 levels are personal preference). I found that Drow works well with this build (and the new Morning lord if you wish to go that route); INT Build becomes feasible at level 7, and DEX Build becomes feasible right away (though 2 levels are required to gain 1 rogue and 1 artificer)
    Enhancement/Item Focus: An awesome Crossbow, all the Dex or Int (see above), crossbow/ranged feats. General skill based gear to give you utility (open locks, disable device, etc.)
    Artis unfortunately don't multi-class very well everything about them begs them to go single-class. That said going pure Int its fairly easy to pick up insightful reflexes so your reflex isn't tanked the main issue is being able to fit in the dex pre-req for all those ranged feats (21 base dex for combat archery) and at that point you've spent so many points in dex you may as well just go dex/int anyways. As for going Morninglord whilst the +Int is nice all the morninglord abilities are focused on bows, AA, ASF reduction, bludgeoning weapons,etc. the main draw I'd say is the SLA line and the core abilities but a don't think its worth wasting a level on cleric. Actually looking at morninglord the SLA line and maybe the mace line -> Skill is really the only thing worth it to a cleric everything else is irrelevant including the core line. Why was elf chosen as an "Iconic" cleric?

    For the other Int racial bonus going Drow gives you a bunch of cool racial abilities but again same issue with going int based. ALso Drow are limited to 28pt which cripples it pretty much right off the bat.

    Also both races have a penalty to con which is an even bigger deal now that alot of HP boosts have been removed.

    You also mentioned Assassinate with only 6-8 levels of Rogue there's NO way your going to be hitting anyone with it even if you go max Int...also your using a crossbow and unfortunately ranged assassinate still doesn't work (says wrong weapon type) so you cant even try to use it

    Now don't get me wrong a Rogue/Arty CAN work I just think its better off being Halfling the only Dex race with out a negative con allow for 18Dex/14Con/18Int this gives you bonus SA to shore that up a bit making the lack of rogue levels hurt less, the "agility" line is great for light armor wearers (evasion req light or no armor) and of course the bonuese to dex and saving throws in the core. I'd also say the Heroic companion is nice but the measly 1 minute duration kind of lessens its usefulness since it can only be used 5 times a rest. Oh and of course boni to Hide/MS if you wanna go the stealthy route. Just don't rogue you've only got 6-8 rogue levels anything relying on rogue level for DC is out of the question but that aside mech and assassin still have some nice abilities to pick up if you have extra APs

    That said I think you lose way more than you gain with this paticular build and I'd rather go single-class or at most a light splash as both these classes are heavily reliant on their class levels, Arty for their consturct and spells and Rogue for pretty much all their useful abilites...of course Arty and rogue still make great splashes

    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    Vorpal Wolf
    Concept: Monk Druid hybrid that focus on Vorpal attacks and high critical damage. The Epic Feat Vorpal Strikes can be triggered while in animal form. Get enough Wis to take Vorpal Strikes and put everything else into damage and crit damage. There are several monk abilities that work in animal form; feel free to experiment. Putting enhancement points into Ninja Spy and Nature’s Warrior will allow for some interesting DPS.
    Class Distribution: 12 Monk, 8 Druid
    Thinks to take: [Monk] of Forms line (note that monk line can be taken at levels 6/12/18 with 1 level in monk), Overwhelming Critical, Vorpal Strikes, Improved Critical Bludgeoning
    Things you need: 23 Strength, 23 Wisdom, Great Cleave line, Winter Wolf Form
    Enhancement/Item Focus: Seeker, Alacrity, Strength, On Hit/Crit, off Bluff/Sneak Attack
    Nothing really much to say here aside from Drunks are amazing me and my Gamer Girl are planning on doing a sneaky duo static group where using the new updates try to sneak our way through most quests she's going Monk/Druid (simialr to this build) and I'm going are some Halfling thrower abomination or Single-class Shadar-kai.

    Oh and the ability to enhance your monk lines on a multi-class with feats is amazing...I'd like to see them added to the "Monk feats" line as its fairly limited right now.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 08-16-2013 at 09:22 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  3. #23
    DDO Players Council Xyfiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    Glad to see Maj. Mal. Posting, tell the truth this post is intended to show,that the devs know how crazy the class splits and synergies will be after the pass and reassure people that they are not going to be nerfed due to so many of them looking overpowered (centered earth stance + eSoS Kensei user crits (also works with much easier to obtain Drow greataxe and the sublime Deathnips (please epic the Necropolis so I can some day wield "Deathspike" 19-20 X5 3[W] superior heartseeker))
    I will have 15-20 x5 Deathnips come monday, 19-20 x6 with overwhelming. Assuming I can get to 20 by then on this TR.

  4. #24
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Artis unfortunately don't multi-class very well everything about them begs them to go single-class. That said going pure Int its fairly easy to pick up insightful reflexes so your reflex isn't tanked the main issue is being able to fit in the dex pre-req for all those ranged feats (21 base dex for combat archery) and at that point you've spent so many points in dex you may as well just go dex/int anyways.
    Unless they fixed it on lam and I didn't notice combat archery has been broken for the past year and has never worked.

  5. #25
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    Hahah, sheesh.

    Going to go out on a limb and say these build concepts were not meant to be of interest to people routinely soloing EE content the day it comes out. It is likely the intended audience was the larger majority of "normal" players just looking for some new ideas to personalize and try out and as a demonstration that the new enhancement pass offers a lot of variety and opportunity for creativity.

  6. #26
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hit_fido View Post
    Hahah, sheesh.

    Going to go out on a limb and say these build concepts were not meant to be of interest to people routinely soloing EE content the day it comes out. It is likely the intended audience was the larger majority of "normal" players just looking for some new ideas to personalize and try out and as a demonstration that the new enhancement pass offers a lot of variety and opportunity for creativity.
    Your "normal" player enjoy's poor performing builds that in some cases will contribute more in scaling than they do to group completions?

    Seriously there are massive problems with each and every single one of these builds to where if they were posted by another forumite rather than a dev they'd be being torn up one side and down another. It's staying fairly polite here, and some people are trying to point out the issues these builds have. Pointing out a builds issues isn't saying the builder is a horrible person or some other nonsense, it just means the build has issues.

  7. #27
    The Hatchery psteen1's Avatar
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    I'm planning on doing a version of the Barbificer- only, I am going to drop barb entirely and go a 18 arti/2 fighter split. Otherwise the same, THF and cleave/great cleave with dwarven axes and con for damage and intelligence to hit, and using tensers. Seems like most of the complaints- which are warranted- is that rage is not appropriate for a build that has to cast spells and disarm traps.

  8. #28
    The Hatchery
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Your "normal" player enjoy's poor performing builds that in some cases will contribute more in scaling than they do to group completions?
    With how the enhancement trees are currently set up, it's actually pretty hard to create a completely 100% gimp character. In the hands of a good player, most of these could work, though they'll still be sub-optimal (not like you need 100% OR NOTHING performance to complete anything).

    At any rate, you guys are taking this way too freaking seriously. Chill the hell out.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Your "normal" player enjoy's poor performing builds that in some cases will contribute more in scaling than they do to group completions?
    Your "normal" player wants to have fun, isn't worrying about whether they'll qualify for combat archery at level 21 or not, whether 8 of this class or 7 is optimal, etc etc. Any of these build ideas would work just fine in normal/hard heroic content which is where most "normal" players spend their time. Any of these build ideas would work just fine for a more experienced "normal" player running heroic elites. With all the *****ing about how epic normal and hard are so easy, they'd probably do fine there too.

    The objections given are all valid; if these build concepts were put forth as "hey everyone these are self sufficient endgame builds you can shortman EE with!" then the objections would be both valid and valuable. Instead, the objections are valid but utterly pointless in the context of Major's post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    At any rate, you guys are taking this way too freaking seriously.
    This.
    Last edited by hit_fido; 08-16-2013 at 08:54 AM.

  10. #30
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    With how the enhancement trees are currently set up, it's actually pretty hard to create a completely 100% gimp character. In the hands of a good player, most of these could work, though they'll still be sub-optimal (not like you need 100% OR NOTHING performance to complete anything).

    At any rate, you guys are taking this way too freaking seriously. Chill the hell out.
    I'm actually perfectly calm man, I think you might be the one that's getting upset and needs to chill out. It's not an insult to point out build flaws.
    Quote Originally Posted by hit_fido View Post
    Your "normal" player wants to have fun, isn't worrying about whether they'll qualify for combat archery at level 21 or not, whether 8 of this class or 7 is optimal, etc etc. Any of these build ideas would work just fine in normal/hard heroic content which is where most "normal" players spend their time. Any of these build ideas would work just fine for a more experienced "normal" player running heroic elites. With all the *****ing about how epic normal and hard are so easy, they'd probably do fine there too.

    The objections given are all valid; if these build concepts were put forth as "hey everyone these are self sufficient endgame builds you can shortman EE with!" then the objections would be both valid and valuable. Instead, the objections are valid but utterly pointless in the context of Major's post.
    Most players run heroic elite which yes is mostly a cake walk as well. However saying that most people don't want to worry about 8 or this or 7 of this class is something I agree with. That's why most people seem to go pure classes or use multi-classes from the forums. Because of this correcting build flaws on forum build posts becomes very important as like you said most people don't want to think about it themselves. I agree people are lazy.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    There is only one word that adequately describes this build;

    FUN!

    The word you are searching for is: WEAK.
    Without the Natural Fighting Line wolf dps seriously sucks.
    With the nerf in Spellpower Wolves will heal even worse then they did and to be true that was already not cutting it, especially with so low sp.
    Also wolves still need to use Wraps to get the Dice increase, which renders their ability to use 2 weapons for flexibility and more buffs useless.

    And considering all this renders using Wolf form completely useless, you will do a lot more Damage when not using Wolf form.
    Not even mentioning that a monk/rogue/fighter will beat the everliving.... out of the above build.
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  12. #32
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemoneyes View Post
    Also wolves still need to use Wraps to get the Dice increase, which renders their ability to use 2 weapons for flexibility and more buffs useless.
    Wielding an off-hand weapon in wolf or bear form does nothing only the mainhand weapon applies any effects

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Unless they fixed it on lam and I didn't notice combat archery has been broken for the past year and has never worked.
    Not sure seems to work fine for me...still IPS needs 19 Base Dex.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 08-16-2013 at 09:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  13. #33
    Community Member esheep's Avatar
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    Default PDk Iconic 16/2/2 Bard/Fighter/Rogue

    High CHA/CON and whatever DEX you can fit for the evasion... does limit you to weapons PDK's can use with CHA modifier, but still a pretty good selection.
    Last edited by esheep; 08-16-2013 at 10:33 AM. Reason: title.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    it will go on and on and on to level 999

  14. #34
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Wielding an off-hand weapon in wolf or bear form does nothing only the mainhand weapon applies any effects
    not completely true

    Off hand benefits that work

    tactical dc increases
    seeker
    healing amp -- gs
    guard effects from shields

    only on hit effects such as holy/flaming/etc don't work.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Wielding an off-hand weapon in wolf or bear form does nothing only the mainhand weapon applies any effects
    I know that Offhand does not and was never intended to add Damage/off-procs.
    But it does add everything else, like spell-power, stats, absorb, etc.
    Which would give great options to the Wolf build but alas you loose the 3.5 dice steps while dual wielding.
    So this makes using anything else then wraps a poor choice.
    And using wraps makes Wolf form a poor choice because monk animation is faster than Wolf and Wolf has no offhand procs.

    This brings me back to the build above, which is completely ape..... because it doesnt even have the natural fighting line, which is the only thing that at least gives the wolf form a bit of dps.
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  16. #36
    The Hatchery psteen1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    Vorpal Wolf: No point in the 8th level of Druid. Better off splashing Fighter for a bonus feat, or Artificer for full UMD and +1 scroll level.
    Level 8 druid gets you winter wolf, unless the DDO wiki is wrong. That is very much worth it.


    Vorpal wolf:

    I have a 36 pt half elf that I may LR into the vorpal wolf idea. It looks to me like getting base 23 wisdom and strength is possible, but it sure takes some sacrifice. Just an FYI to people out there. First life toons aren't going to pull that off. You'll need to go half-orc for the extra strength, and still need +3 and +4 tomes to do it without gimping yourself in skill points or constitution.

    For me:
    starting strength 18: +2 tomes, 3 level ups
    starting wisdom 18: +2 tome, 3 level ups
    that means a starting con of 12 with everything else dumped.

    I think I'll just give up on getting overwhelming critical. It's just not worth it.

  17. #37
    Community Member esheep's Avatar
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    Default PDk Iconic 16/2/2 Sorc/Fighter/Paladin

    As the title says...

    The update brings the CHA hit/dam for PDK Iconics which means you can make a battle sorc. The melee damage is going to be no worse than a Tukaw build, and you'll have more SP, higher DC's... at the cost of self healing.

    It's (sort of) an option for those who are bored with juggernaut builds.
    Last edited by esheep; 08-16-2013 at 10:35 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    it will go on and on and on to level 999

  18. #38
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Your "normal" player enjoy's poor performing builds that in some cases will contribute more in scaling than they do to group completions?
    Your 'normal' player is here to have FUN and does not cry like a little child when his min/max zerg build to skip content build is now sup-par for the time being.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  19. #39
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemoneyes View Post
    The word you are searching for is: WEAK.
    Without the Natural Fighting Line wolf dps seriously sucks.
    With the nerf in Spellpower Wolves will heal even worse then they did and to be true that was already not cutting it, especially with so low sp.
    Also wolves still need to use Wraps to get the Dice increase, which renders their ability to use 2 weapons for flexibility and more buffs useless.

    And considering all this renders using Wolf form completely useless, you will do a lot more Damage when not using Wolf form.
    Not even mentioning that a monk/rogue/fighter will beat the everliving.... out of the above build.
    As others have pointed out, might want to get familiar with Druid Forms before you start calling things weak.

    As I have been playing on Llama extensively with my Druid I speak from experience when I say this build is FUN.

    As I play for FUN and not to lead kill count and brag how awesomesauce I am over my party members this build lives up to what I said; FUN.

    Furthermore, your claimed 'nerf' has done just the opposite for my healing ability - but that comes from actually playing with the changes vs reading and forming opinions based on what others say.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    As others have pointed out, might want to get familiar with Druid Forms before you start calling things weak.
    I have lvld 3 different Drunks, tyvm but i know what i talkt about.

    As I have been playing on Llama extensively with my Druid I speak from experience when I say this build is FUN.
    oh yes, how could i forget the joy of doing subpar dps.
    Nothing says FUN quite like needing almost double the Time to dps a Boss down.

    As I play for FUN and not to lead kill count and brag how awesomesauce I am over my party members this build lives up to what I said; FUN.
    Kill count doesnt matter so dont try to bring this in here, its contribution that does matter and wolf is subpar in that.
    Also leading kill count in a weak party does not mean you are doing it right, it just means the other dps in your party are doin it worse then you.

    Furthermore, your claimed 'nerf' has done just the opposite for my healing ability - but that comes from actually playing with the changes vs reading and forming opinions based on what others say.
    so, not being able to invest in Spellpower via enhancements does increase healing output?
    tell me more about it..



    Seriously: yes, its a fun (notice the missing caps?) build till lvl 20, but then it shows its flaws.
    Because all those hp bloated mobs in epics are when you really start to notice how lame wolf dps is.
    And the selfhealing of wolf builds starts to get useless around lvl17.

    Okay its not: i took an arrow in all 4 Paws lame like the Bear but it still sucks compared to monk builds without form.
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