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  1. #1
    Community Member Glad's Avatar
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    Default Glimpse of future: Paladin after Enhancment Pass

    Paladin Defender of Siberys before enh. pass:



    and Paladin Defender of Siberys after enh. pass, presenting to you Flowertank:

    Last edited by Glad; 08-08-2013 at 11:24 AM.
    Thelanis: Gladnadjeva Limeny Bimbamboom Cutyslice

  2. #2
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Second picture should be a blank sheet of paper.

  3. #3
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Ah lol

    Now how do you "see" the new paladin KoTc/HoTd hybrid before and after?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    Insulting the development team is not allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jendrak
    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  4. #4
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Redhead in Santa boots, don't see any difference between those two pictures.
    Ghallanda

  5. #5
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Yeah I have a build that is **** now also because the Defender/shield thingy. Was planning on making him one of those newfangled weapon monks with my 20 rock

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glad View Post
    Paladin Defender of Siberys before enh. pass:



    and Paladin Defender of Siberys after enh. pass, presenting to you Flowertank:

    So? Ya want defensive stance paladin, you have to equip a shield. It makes sense flavour-wise and it brings us closer to DD PnP.

    However, that "DPS pally" (that term still sounds funny) that combines HotD and KotC sounds like a good DPS boost to pallys. So, respec into that.

  7. #7
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by viktorserak View Post
    So? Ya want defensive stance paladin, you have to equip a shield. It makes sense flavour-wise and it brings us closer to DD PnP.

    However, that "DPS pally" (that term still sounds funny) that combines HotD and KotC sounds like a good DPS boost to pallys. So, respec into that.
    First off there's not such thing as a DPS pally.

    Second, the stance changes are beyond stupid.

  8. #8
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    First off there's not such thing as a DPS pally.

    Second, the stance changes are beyond stupid.
    So wait they went BACK to shield required? Not just stalwart? So I can add that back into my nerfs thread?

    OP, that would have been a lot more effective if you could tell those are flowers... try taking those screens outside during daylight.

    HotD/KotC: great bonuses to kill vital mobs like Devils and Undead... If they had combined them back when Amrath was endgame maybe... but now that's just pointless in 90% of the content, except the occasional sub-trash zombies raised by Drow Necro's that PrE is pure junk IMO.

    My theory: The Devs looked at their metrics, and didn't interpret them correctly. They saw that 90% of Pali's were taking DOS and incorrectly surmised that is was over powered, as opposed to being the least lame option of three lame options. Sadly I think they're going to need to see Pali's lower in popularity (which they are because they're the easy/obvious path to Self healing in the BYOH game) before they realize that they're making a weak class worse.
    Last edited by Ironclans_evil_twin; 08-07-2013 at 10:11 PM.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkofDrasnia View Post
    Now how do you "see" the new paladin KoTc/HoTd hybrid before and after?
    I'm pretty excited for the changes my HotD pally will get on in the xpack. He loses a fair amount of self-healing to gain some DPS, but he had an abundance of self-healing so it's not too bad.

    Mind you, if I kept him at 18/2 pally/rogue he would have lost a TON of self-healing, meaning I had to splash in a third class just to deal with that. But he really doesn't lose too much once that third class is splashed in. And that third class happens to greatly improve his burst DPS, so it's all good, IMO.

    Pure pally is hosed, though. I can't imagine trying to roll up a pure kotc pally in the new enhancements. Total fail there.

  10. #10
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    It appears the NDA is gone and the Lamannia forums are open so I suggest players peek in there if they want a bit more detail about this stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    So wait they went BACK to shield required? Not just stalwart? So I can add that back into my nerfs thread?
    Shields are still required for about 1/2 to a 1/3 of the Pally Defender tree. Most of the Shield stuff has been moved up the tree so you can take 1/2 of the stance enhancements for non-S&B pallies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    HotD/KotC: great bonuses to kill vital mobs like Devils and Undead... If they had combined them back when Amrath was endgame maybe... but now that's just pointless in 90% of the content, except the occasional sub-trash zombies raised by Drow Necro's that PrE is pure junk IMO.

    My theory: The Devs looked at their metrics, and didn't interpret them correctly. They saw that 90% of Pali's were taking DOS and incorrectly surmised that is was over powered, as opposed to being the least lame option of three lame options. Sadly I think they're going to need to see Pali's lower in popularity (which they are because they're the easy/obvious path to Self healing in the BYOH game) before they realize that they're making a weak class worse.
    Yes, HOTD/KOTC, but not in the way most people would think. Unless something changes, the KOTC tree only let's players choose Undead OR Evil Outsider, not both. So in the update, KOTC can get the non-undead stuff of HOTD while HOTD gained the DPS of KOTC minus the Evil Outsider damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I'm pretty excited for the changes my HotD pally will get on in the xpack. He loses a fair amount of self-healing to gain some DPS, but he had an abundance of self-healing so it's not too bad.

    Mind you, if I kept him at 18/2 pally/rogue he would have lost a TON of self-healing, meaning I had to splash in a third class just to deal with that. But he really doesn't lose too much once that third class is splashed in. And that third class happens to greatly improve his burst DPS, so it's all good, IMO.

    Pure pally is hosed, though. I can't imagine trying to roll up a pure kotc pally in the new enhancements. Total fail there.
    I pretty much agree with this. The Pally Defender prestige got really hosed on the capstone. Although the KOTC capstone looks nice at first glance, it doesn't give anything that would convince people to stay pure. The HOTD comes out ahead of the other two since as I mentioned above, the HOTD gains pretty much everything that the KOTD currently has except for the Evil Outsider damage.

    Now there's one more thing to keep an eye on. Clerics in the update after the Expansion will be gaining a Melee DPS tree. Since Paladins got very little general DPS boosts in the new enhancements, expect to find Clerics out DPSing Paladins by the end of the year.

  11. #11
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    I have three characters with a >2 amount of pally levels. None of them will be remotely effectively after the change. Meh. Good thing we get +20 LR thing so they can be changed into something that won't be need to rely on getting the "pity" spot in a group.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  12. #12
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    I know it's too late to whine, but I still don't know why they had to completely revamp EVERYTHING in this enhancement pass.

    I expected:

    1. Change to tree view for ease of building.
    2. Complete unfinished PrE's.
    3. Create long awaited (but never started) PrE's.
    4. Minor tweaks.

    Instead they made it so that I have to "unlearn what I have learned" and rebuild every single character, which may no longer resemble what they used to be, and require an entire new set of equipment. I am not loking forward to this. Like many others, I have a lot of characters across several servers (30 or so) and will end up spending weeks rebuilding them instead of playing the game.

    Sigh.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    I know it's too late to whine, but I still don't know why they had to completely revamp EVERYTHING in this enhancement pass.

    I expected:

    1. Change to tree view for ease of building.
    2. Complete unfinished PrE's.
    3. Create long awaited (but never started) PrE's.
    4. Minor tweaks.

    Instead they made it so that I have to "unlearn what I have learned" and rebuild every single character, which may no longer resemble what they used to be, and require an entire new set of equipment. I am not loking forward to this. Like many others, I have a lot of characters across several servers (30 or so) and will end up spending weeks rebuilding them instead of playing the game.

    Sigh.
    Yeah, with 30+ characters... meh, I'm not sure I can face trying to redo everything about them from the ground up.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  14. #14
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    So my pallies will no longer be able to swing 2 handers and get Defender Stance?

    If true this puts a very serious crimp in my game, renders weeks of work semi-useless, and does not portend well for the future.

    Feels like starting from scratch....

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by My2Cents View Post
    So my pallies will no longer be able to swing 2 handers and get Defender Stance?
    They will get some of the bonuses. But not nearly enough for it to be useful.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    My theory: The Devs looked at their metrics, and didn't interpret them correctly. They saw that 90% of Pali's were taking DOS and incorrectly surmised that is was over powered, as opposed to being the least lame option of three lame options. Sadly I think they're going to need to see Pali's lower in popularity (which they are because they're the easy/obvious path to Self healing in the BYOH game) before they realize that they're making a weak class worse.
    This. A weak class needs more flexibility / power to make it MORE popular. It doesn't need to be nerfed and pigeonholed. I just really don't understand how MMO developers would fail to get this simple fact.

  17. #17
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Pally is now a splash class. Take two levels for Divine Grace/Divine might and don't bother with any more.

    They are arguably worse after the ENH pass than they were before.

  18. #18
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by My2Cents View Post
    So my pallies will no longer be able to swing 2 handers and get Defender Stance?

    If true this puts a very serious crimp in my game, renders weeks of work semi-useless, and does not portend well for the future.

    Feels like starting from scratch....

    I re-worked my pally 4 or 6 times screwing around with DPS while maintaining S&B tanking. People used to having both are not going to be real happy.

    That being said, you can get utter insane amounts of PRR and HP going full-out tank, in-stance. I was able to pick up Power Attack, but that was about it. I also lost at least 2 extra smites.

    You are essentially given a decision: healing amp (if you are human), smites, and DPS. But you don’t get all three. At least I wasn’t able to work it out that way.

  19. #19
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    I re-worked my pally 4 or 6 times screwing around with DPS while maintaining S&B tanking. People used to having both are not going to be real happy.

    That being said, you can get utter insane amounts of PRR and HP going full-out tank, in-stance. I was able to pick up Power Attack, but that was about it. I also lost at least 2 extra smites.

    You are essentially given a decision: healing amp (if you are human), smites, and DPS. But you don’t get all three. At least I wasn’t able to work it out that way.
    Define "insane" amounts of PRR. What were you able to hit?

  20. #20
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Define "insane" amounts of PRR. What were you able to hit?
    Lvl 18 pally, straight S&B was up over 120 in stance, without any special gear (if I recall correctly). I was pushing maybe 80(?) in-stance with the same levels and gear on live going pure DoS. I was trying to re-creats what I had currently with the new trees, and I had to tone down the PRR and HP. It gave me extra points for racial abilities. I also still have some three points left to pump into something else.

    I think my HP were low 600s in-stance on live, and were maybe 700-ish on Beta.

    Trying to do this from memory, so my numbers are not exact.

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