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  1. #41
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    I have three bank characters, where one is devoted to random generated loot. I can vendor over half of his loot after this change, that's for sure.

    Pure good is a pointless change that should be reverted.

    Hasn't Metalline gone up, too?

    And all my old power5s are now in need of change, since they do NOT see to be updated - only the nerfs are retroactive, not the buffs. Yay.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    This reads as hyperbole to me, which is difficult to respond to. I'll give it my best, though.

    Only a few things are increasing the level of existing items:

    To put this in perspective a bit, at least for me, the only random loot I save are a few extremely exceptional items (silver holy greater evil outsider bane) and bound to account items. The bound to account items i keep because they are two levels lower and they don't receive permanent damage.

    So from my perspective, almost everything is going up. I am not all that mad about it, but it's a big pain to me because I usually just have one set of gear from 1-4, another from 5-8, etc. This allows me to spend more time playing and less time playing around with gear. Now all my gear is toast and I once again have to start collecting it and many of the items will end up being btc which means they take up space forever or get deleted. I loved my bta gear because i could just swap it around to all my characters.

    Entire nations have survived worse.

    Still, I would prefer my gear didn't change.

    I appreciate all the great things you do. I just wanted to let you know why it matters to me.

  3. #43
    Community Member FnaCotton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unacceptable View Post
    Feather has been extremely responsive and helpful in my opinion. The devs can't and respond to everything.
    Fanboi much?

    He clearly only answered what he wanted to, he has had multiple replied EVERY one avoiding the BTC issue...

    Risa Icy Burst, THE FIRST YEAR, was the only year without cheaters jumping off Masts and rooftops.... I (and many others) earned my bursts the hard way now I am being punished because some new developer decided my.. ney OUR time is worth less then their time doing their job of making changes that affect everyone in a positive way.

  4. #44
    Community Member honkuimushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    This reads as hyperbole to me, which is difficult to respond to. I'll give it my best, though.

    Only a few things are increasing the level of existing items:
    • Items crafted from the very first Risia Ice Games with "Frost" or "Icy Burst" will go up in level. (Items with "Festival Frost" or "Festival Icy Burst" from more recent Risia Ice Games will NOT go up in level.)
    • The bugged rings from a few content packs that had no minimum level at all are finally fixed.
    • Very old items with Pure Good from before Pure Good's value was raised from +1 to +2 will increase in level accordingly.


    Realistically, this is not negatively affecting most people, and the systematic improvements to the functionality of the game that it results in are worth it.
    What a lot of people are complaining about, but what I don't see listed, are all of the random chain rewards from the semi-static lists such as WW, STK, TR and Delera's. Those items have been 2 levels below randomly generated items since they were instituted because they are chain rewards competing with named items and being bound to account. Many characters have things like BtA ML 1 FF boots or +4 stat gear that is 2 levels below randomly generated items. If those levels go up, it's a pretty hefty nerf to stored items and the lists. There BtA items have already been left out of the improved armor tiers and augments. If the level goes up, they'll pretty much only be useful for crafting blanks.



    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Here's examples of some of the improvements made as a result:
    • Crafted items now have a platinum value appropriate to their level, rather than a value of a few copper.
    I actually see this as something of a nerf as well. I generally don't sell crafted items to vendors. I deconstruct them if I don't want them anymore and the essences are more important than any plat I may get. On the other hand, with the low low prices of crafted items, it makes repairing a lot more pleasant.

  5. #45
    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib_360 View Post
    In another thread on the topic of undocumented changes to Cannith crafting, it was noticed that invulnerability now has a cost of +3 rather than +1. If I understood his post correctly, I think Cordovan implied that this change was unintentional (something about "halo effect from item changes"). From your above quote, it appears to be intentional.

    If it was intentional, why was it changed now after all this time? Can we expect to get some positive attention paid to Cannith crafting, such as by introducing the missing prefixes and suffixes, or just further nerfs to what we already have?

    Edit: Most, if not all, of the docents I craft for leveling have invulnerability on them. This change would raise the ML by 4 levels on all of those.
    ^ THIS x1,000,000

    FoS post "confirms" that this change was intentional so somebody here is either:
    1. Lying to us and hoping we will not spot these things.
    2. Somebody is lying higher up and as such people such as Cordovan and Feather don't really know what is happening.
    3. Can't think of a third option.

    Personally I think the first option is more likely since this happens time and time again, stealth nerfs and nothing said until we find it in game. Turbine/devs/whoever when are you going to realize that people who play this game are intelligent people and will continue finding these nerfs and putting you all in uncomfortable positions just because you can't be honest with us? WAKE THE HELL UP AND SMELL THE LIE DETECTOR!

    Stoner81.

    PS - I am not saying that Feather or Cordovan have intentionally lied to us, I am trying to get across that something is not right and it feels like we are being lied to.

  6. #46
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FnaCotton View Post
    Fanboi much?

    He clearly only answered what he wanted to, he has had multiple replied EVERY one avoiding the BTC issue...

    Risa Icy Burst, THE FIRST YEAR, was the only year without cheaters jumping off Masts and rooftops.... I (and many others) earned my bursts the hard way now I am being punished because some new developer decided my.. ney OUR time is worth less then their time doing their job of making changes that affect everyone in a positive way.
    Posts like this make me sad about the state of human nature and how utterly immature people become when they are anonymous and not face to face and thus start acting like self entitled kids.

    Apparently "fanboi" (btw that spelling always makes me think the person who spelled it that way is a 12 year old girl; not an insult just an observation of where I might expect that spelling to come from) now describes anyone who dislikes something but is capable of remaining civil and rational. So I guess now to not be a fanboy one apparently must leg kick and tantrum and call names while not being happy about a change. It's not enough for Unacceptable to disagree with the change while showing manners and affording another human being some basic dignity... Now one must behave like an anonymous child.

  7. #47
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    *snip*

    Realistically, this is not negatively affecting most people, and the systematic improvements to the functionality of the game that it results in are worth it.
    the people it is affecting are those who sought after gear with a low minimum level for TRing.

    Min lvl 4 Festival Icy burst shock of pure good
    Min lvl 4 Festival Icy burst vicious of pure good

    now the Festival Icy burst will not increase the Min lvl on these treasured twink items but, the pure good might.

    A great many player who TR often are always on the look out for items with a low Min lvl

    this is why everyone is upset these twink items are prized


    for me

    I could not care about the bugged Min level 0 rings being fixed

    the changes to the original ricia effects is a bummer

    the changes to the old pure good is a bummer and here why when ever old gear is improved the items already obtained don't get buffed a great example was the changes to the Necro 4 tome page turn ins I had a pair of Deatnips and when the change come into effect I had to reacquire 16 more tome pages to get the new ones. The point is your not retro actively improving our old gear why retro actively nerf our old gear?

    the changes to Cannith Crafting sound good but, I'll wait to see it on live I guess.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    This reads as hyperbole to me, which is difficult to respond to. I'll give it my best, though.

    Only a few things are increasing the level of existing items:
    • Items crafted from the very first Risia Ice Games with "Frost" or "Icy Burst" will go up in level. (Items with "Festival Frost" or "Festival Icy Burst" from more recent Risia Ice Games will NOT go up in level.)
    • The bugged rings from a few content packs that had no minimum level at all are finally fixed.
    • Very old items with Pure Good from before Pure Good's value was raised from +1 to +2 will increase in level accordingly.


    Realistically, this is not negatively affecting most people, and the systematic improvements to the functionality of the game that it results in are worth it.

    Here's examples of some of the improvements made as a result:
    • Crafted weapons, armor, and shields will have a minimum level 1 lower than they used to.
      (If they aren't immediately affected with Update 19, you can disjunct and re-craft them for the proper level valuation)
    • Crafted items now have a platinum value appropriate to their level, rather than a value of a few copper.
    • Banishing, Vorpal, Smiting, and Disruption will begin to appear in treasure as +4 value effects, rather than +5. This means they'll contribute less to the level on your item.
    Thanks for your reply. Still not answered BtA items from quest rewards and quest arc rewards being the same level as chest loot. A dev stated in the past that the bugged rings we collected would stay at that level (I come to terms with them going) but can you understand why i feel cheated. The Risia weapons i worked hard for are now useless for the levels i use to use them at, so now i have to find replacements. Nothing has been said about can we update these old risia weapons and they will go down in level?

    So now any items and weapons i get that might be good now will be changed in the future and stated they were bugged at the time of release. Now beside changing characters every few up date is this going to be the same with weapons/items as well?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner81 View Post
    ^ THIS x1,000,000

    FoS post "confirms" that this change was intentional so somebody here is either:
    1. Lying to us and hoping we will not spot these things.
    2. Somebody is lying higher up and as such people such as Cordovan and Feather don't really know what is happening.
    3. Can't think of a third option.
    I can and it was rather obvious: the things they are ignoring are trivial except to a small segment of twink gear invested players, and behind the scenes they are rolling their eyes over the minutia that the forum goers often choose to make a mountain out of. The fix might be non trivial and take more time and break more stuff, so rather than address every little permutation, of every minor nook and cranny of possible loot they simply don't say anything about it.

    I would be stunned if 1% of the player base had a significant collection of bound random loot end rewards that they craft on for the purpose of getting twink items 4 levels sooner than they otherwise could. I have a nearly maxed crafter and frankly I can't be bothered with that stuff, even where I already own a bound random item to craft on, I often don't bother, MOSTLY because that stuff is out leveled often within HOURS OF CHARACTER CREATION. Especially now that yellow and clear slots are floating around the AH for pennies. A +6 con item with a augment slot even when it adds to the ML is just WAY more useful for a WAY longer time, than an ML9 +6 CON belt (or whatever)

    So what would you rather have? Fixed bound random gear, or maybe some Epics updated to match their new Augment pass heroic counter parts?

  10. #50
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    Not that I want to put out the torches or dull the pitchforks but here are a couple of ideas:

    Re-apply Risia effect to your twink weapons: The Festival Risia should overwrite the old non-Festival Risia and the min levels should revert to where they are now. Getting new Risia should be pretty easy and cheap these days. On Ghallanda it's around 60k, which is chumpchange to a serial reincarnater.

    With the advent of new weapon prefixes and suffixes didn't the old twink gear become obsolete? One example: min lvl 2 Festival Icy Burst weapons of Lacerating outperformed most of my old Risia weapons. They have largely been relegated to a mule named "Nostalgia" after I made new twink weapons. Sometimes I even pull them off that mule and use them just because... you guessed it... nostalgia.

    Can't think of any solution to the BTA stuff raising 2 levels. It seems that is probably an oversight and hopefully they will change it back.

  11. #51
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonko_the_sane View Post
    Not that I want to put out the torches or dull the pitchforks but here are a couple of ideas:

    Re-apply Risia effect to your twink weapons: The Festival Risia should overwrite the old non-Festival Risia and the min levels should revert to where they are now. Getting new Risia should be pretty easy and cheap these days. On Ghallanda it's around 60k, which is chumpchange to a serial reincarnater.

    With the advent of new weapon prefixes and suffixes didn't the old twink gear become obsolete? One example: min lvl 2 Festival Icy Burst weapons of Lacerating outperformed most of my old Risia weapons. They have largely been relegated to a mule named "Nostalgia" after I made new twink weapons. Sometimes I even pull them off that mule and use them just because... you guessed it... nostalgia.

    Can't think of any solution to the BTA stuff raising 2 levels. It seems that is probably an oversight and hopefully they will change it back.
    I don't believe that the appropriate response here is to suggest that people who spent many hours making their items go back and do the same all over again...
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  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    I can and it was rather obvious: the things they are ignoring are trivial except to a small segment of twink gear invested players, and behind the scenes they are rolling their eyes over the minutia that the forum goers often choose to make a mountain out of. The fix might be non trivial and take more time and break more stuff, so rather than address every little permutation, of every minor nook and cranny of possible loot they simply don't say anything about it.

    I would be stunned if 1% of the player base had a significant collection of bound random loot end rewards that they craft on for the purpose of getting twink items 4 levels sooner than they otherwise could. I have a nearly maxed crafter and frankly I can't be bothered with that stuff, even where I already own a bound random item to craft on, I often don't bother, MOSTLY because that stuff is out leveled often within HOURS OF CHARACTER CREATION. Especially now that yellow and clear slots are floating around the AH for pennies. A +6 con item with a augment slot even when it adds to the ML is just WAY more useful for a WAY longer time, than an ML9 +6 CON belt (or whatever)

    So what would you rather have? Fixed bound random gear, or maybe some Epics updated to match their new Augment pass heroic counter parts?
    I just wanted to clarify something for the post that Stoner81 was replying to.

    The increase in ML (potential +1 to +3) for the invulnerably suffix I was referring to would apply to all current and future crafting shards if I am understanding the change correctly, not some small subset of special bta items that I have collected. I don't really think this is some outlier case that wasn't anticipated as it would apply to all shards of invulnerably .

  13. #53
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    This change is dumb and adds no value to the game. I'm hoping whoever came up with it will go ruin the Batman game and stop wrecking DDO.

  14. #54
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib_360 View Post
    I just wanted to clarify something for the post that Stoner81 was replying to.

    The increase in ML (potential +1 to +3) for the invulnerably suffix I was referring to would apply to all current and future crafting shards if I am understanding the change correctly, not some small subset of special bta items that I have collected. I don't really think this is some outlier case that wasn't anticipated as it would apply to all shards of invulnerably .
    When Update 14 hit, Stability got its potential doubled. Was +6 to saves at level 5 OP? Probably. Oh well. They caught on and fixed it...

    It's a bummer when your pet gem affix gets called out, but it happens. Being "Invulnerable" at level 1 seems to be OP as well.


    It also points out that the DR, AC, and elemental resistance systems are broken, and why PRR and Absorption are necessary for higher scaling content.
    "DR 6/- on ML 24 items? Pffft! I make DR 5/magic at level 1! C'mon these EE mobs hit so hard we need more..."

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other affixes than Pure Good and Invulnerability that were raised like that
    But why even touch Invulnerability in the first place?

    It's only good against creatures with non-magical weapons. As soon as their weapons become +1 it gets bypassed.

    So it's a nice option to have to help you survive at the lowest levels.

    What you guys need to understand is that anything that benefits us, we'll be happy about, although you might not get a lot of thanks for it. Anything that changes how it's always been that doesn't benefit us causes a backlash and any good that you think you've done get washed away in the negativity.

    What you should be doing is offering anyone with an old Festival Item a one-time new Icy Kit like you gave those of us who lost our festival effects completely a while back. And reverting Invulnerability back to a +1 shard. It's far from OP at +1.

  16. #56
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    Posts like this make me sad about the state of human nature and how utterly immature people become when they are anonymous and not face to face and thus start acting like self entitled kids.

    Apparently "fanboi" (btw that spelling always makes me think the person who spelled it that way is a 12 year old girl; not an insult just an observation of where I might expect that spelling to come from) now describes anyone who dislikes something but is capable of remaining civil and rational. So I guess now to not be a fanboy one apparently must leg kick and tantrum and call names while not being happy about a change. It's not enough for Unacceptable to disagree with the change while showing manners and affording another human being some basic dignity... Now one must behave like an anonymous child.
    Kind of ironic that you dont approve of everyone who likes a change receiving the fanboi label (neither do i) however, you then talk about everyone who doesnt like the change as leg kicking, tantrum, and calling names. I dismiss both of these extreme assumptions as well rehearsed ad hominem responses by people who disagree with a specific stance, but have no refutation of that stance whatsoever. To engage in one while rediculing the other is a direct contradiction.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  17. #57
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post

    What you should be doing is offering anyone with an old Festival Item a one-time new Icy Kit like you gave those of us who lost our festival effects completely a while back. And reverting Invulnerability back to a +1 shard. It's far from OP at +1.
    The stone of change option used in the past to fix other situations would work here. People can put their risia icy burst item into the stone of change, press the button, and icy burst gets changed to festival icy burst.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    [*]Crafted items now have a platinum value appropriate to their level, rather than a value of a few copper.[*]
    Nooooooooooooo. This is truly a shame. One of the nicest parts of having crafted gear was that you could die 10 times in a quest and come back to a repair bill of 1 silver. I loved the fact that everything crafted was worth 1 copper each.
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The stone of change option used in the past to fix other situations would work here. People can put their risia icy burst item into the stone of change, press the button, and icy burst gets changed to festival icy burst.
    Even if they don't have the ability to differentiate from an "old Festival icy burst" item and a new "Icy burst" item because of the way it was coded before, I don't see this being an issue. If the item ever gets deconstructed or whatever it'll lose the effects anyway, so not much there to exploit.

    Some Icy Burst items that weren't from Risia might drop a couple of ML, who cares just do it.

    In the same way, I'd say that any Festival effect below Icy Burst isn't significant, Cold Touch and Frost are insignificant, so losing them isn't a real issue, just get an Icy kit next time the games are up.

    It's not OP, so yeah, just do it.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    Nooooooooooooo. This is truly a shame. One of the nicest parts of having crafted gear was that you could die 10 times in a quest and come back to a repair bill of 1 silver. I loved the fact that everything crafted was worth 1 copper each.
    When they say you can't please all of the people all of the time, they really meant it, eh?

    Your stuff is now worth more = bad news

    On the positive side, now you have an extra incentive not to die 10 times in a quest

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