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  1. #81
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    Default A possible resolution?

    It seems like there are 4 distinct reasons why item ML are changing:

    1) Weapons that were crafted in the first Risia festival
    2) Non-bugged Bound to account random loot obtained as an arc end reward that are (were ) 2 levels lower
    3) Items where the +x value of the prefix/suffix changed, e.g. pure good changing from +1 to +2
    4) Bugged items

    1 - Weapons that were crafted in the first Risia festival
    -----------------------------------------------------
    If the devs can identify these, put the equivalent crafting ingredients into the players inventory. Bring back the Risia games a few weeks after the release so people can craft new items. If you have no way of identifying the items that will be changing, just double the pay-out for this time around

    2 - Non-bugged Bound to account random loot obtained as an end reward
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Either apply masterful craftmanship to these items or the automatica calculation can reduce the level by 2 if the item is bound to account.

    3- Items where the +x value of the prefix/suffix changed
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    If you can identify the items, put a masterful craftmanship on the items. otherwise I am ok with this one. Although I question why invulnerability is +3 when it starts to become useless around level 10.

    4- Bugged items
    -------------------
    Do nothing, we will all just have to go through the grieving process on this. i don't expect to be able use a +6 strength item @ level 1. Seriously i don't understand how people are making the argument that these bugged items should remain bugged.

  2. #82
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    When Update 14 hit, Stability got its potential doubled. Was +6 to saves at level 5 OP? Probably. Oh well. They caught on and fixed it...

    It's a bummer when your pet gem affix gets called out, but it happens. Being "Invulnerable" at level 1 seems to be OP as well.


    It also points out that the DR, AC, and elemental resistance systems are broken, and why PRR and Absorption are necessary for higher scaling content.
    "DR 6/- on ML 24 items? Pffft! I make DR 5/magic at level 1! C'mon these EE mobs hit so hard we need more..."
    Well said. I felt a bit upset when all my stability items were suddenly unusable, but I got over it. It probably was op. Invulnerability should be at least +3 potential as it is OP now.

  3. #83
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah179 View Post
    Kind of jumping in late --

    I just buy some base junk off of the AH if I TR'ed unprepared. I craft whatever I can on it for a slight advantage...

    I am level 5 before I notice I should probably re-gear.

    I throw on a couple Chronoscope items maybe... Shocking gloves at least usually. Make 4-5 random pieces of gear and roll on...

    Now I usually don't bother until around 11?

    Then I might bother around 12-14 when shroud gear becomes active...maybe... or just throw on Green Steel and move on.

    12-20 -- I of course take advantage of anything I have or maybe buy an item or two off AH... but I also don't mind trying to find (via loot) some gear during these levels that is better than what I have... something fun to do for me I guess.

    Bottom Line: I know it is disappointing. But I cant imagine gear really is deal breaking level 1-5, that is the first day of TR and other than a few convenience items... like detect secret door... I hardly know what is needed here.

    I have only TR'ed about 5 times across 3 characters now by the way... so I am a novice at best and it is a non issue for me.

    I remember when I first started, I had a mule with 100s of saved potions, cures etc. Adding up to thousands... one day I realized I dont ever use them and sold them all off... it was liberating. (vendor trash sold I mean) (I also realized I could easily buy them all, but I was new when I started collecting and did not have the plat!)

    Then there was the day I realized my mule with 25 quivers full of arrows that I had saved from every playing hour of every toon... meaningless. And another empty mule was born. Did I sell at least the good arrows? No. Arrows are mostly meaningless and hard to switch in the heat of battle... game is broken for using arrows... vendor trash again.

    I would really like to know in these 1200 and 500+ weapon examples, how many actual weapons from the cache did you actually take out and use for more than... well at all. In the past year?

    The honest answer to this, is why some think there is an over reaction to a largely beneficial change to the CURRENT game.

    To the OP: It always is disappointing to discover our hobby was meaningless, even if we stopped doing our hobby years ago... it would be like saving 500 McDonalds toys and finding out 10 years later they are worth about $100.00 if you pay someone $30.00 to unload them...lol
    My sentiments entirely. I appreciate some people spent a lot of time on certain items, much like how some spent a lot of hours on old epic gear just to have that made obsolete with MotU.

    First rule of MMOs should be "don't get married to your build or gear because updates can change anything."

    I am not saying it is right, or that I agree, but this seems to be how things are and probably always will be. Updates are like changing DMs or campaigns, the game remains basically the same but a lot of little changes will occur.

  4. #84
    Community Member darksol23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    This reads as hyperbole to me, which is difficult to respond to. I'll give it my best, though.

    Only a few things are increasing the level of existing items:
    • Items crafted from the very first Risia Ice Games with "Frost" or "Icy Burst" will go up in level. (Items with "Festival Frost" or "Festival Icy Burst" from more recent Risia Ice Games will NOT go up in level.)
    • The bugged rings from a few content packs that had no minimum level at all are finally fixed.
    • Very old items with Pure Good from before Pure Good's value was raised from +1 to +2 will increase in level accordingly.


    Realistically, this is not negatively affecting most people, and the systematic improvements to the functionality of the game that it results in are worth it.

    Here's examples of some of the improvements made as a result:
    • Crafted weapons, armor, and shields will have a minimum level 1 lower than they used to.
      (If they aren't immediately affected with Update 19, you can disjunct and re-craft them for the proper level valuation)
    • Crafted items now have a platinum value appropriate to their level, rather than a value of a few copper.
    • Banishing, Vorpal, Smiting, and Disruption will begin to appear in treasure as +4 value effects, rather than +5. This means they'll contribute less to the level on your item.
    Dear FOS,

    I'm glad this is not affecting "most people"; however, it is likely affecting every single person that has been playing since before you were hired (that's right, the game was here before you were). Am I upset by this? You bet. On a whim, you have successfully made the loot that I spent time grinding, building, and trading for worthless. You have successfully made worthless loot that I don't want to use accessible to lower levels; but yet, just as worthless. Ummm yeah! +1 for you!!

    I look forward to more "systematic improvements to the functionality of the game." There are a few things that are still working that could use some "improvements." Oh wait, Turbine also "improved" the enhancements! So now my loot and my characters are being "improved" on the same day. Double fun!

    PS I'm glad you are a dev for Turbine instead of something important like a nuclear power plant. If you were, your perception of "systematic improvements" might leave the majority of the eastern coast with quite the "improved suntan."
    Officer of the Platinum Knights of Cannith, Founder of the guild GHOSTBANE of Cannith
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    Other Characters - Holy, Leap, War, Optimusprime, Intimitank, Lanfear, Can, Afkbiobrb, Garagesale, Leverpuller and many more

  5. #85
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darksol23 View Post
    Dear FOS,

    I'm glad this is not affecting "most people"; however, it is likely affecting every single person that has been playing since before you were hired (that's right, the game was here before you were). Am I upset by this? You bet. On a whim, you have successfully made the loot that I spent time grinding, building, and trading for worthless.
    (1) This your first MMO?

    (2) You really think you're going to say "Man, Tear of Dhakaan is SO much harder now"?

    (3) It's low-end loot... Vets, of all people, should be able to shrug this off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  6. #86
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    Default Sorry No!

    "Banishing, Vorpal, Smiting, and Disruption will begin to appear in treasure as +4 value effects, rather than +5. This means they'll contribute less to the level on your item."

    quote from feather.

    This is wrong. I looked at my 2 melee toons side by side live and lama +1 vorpal kopesh min lvl 10 on live. On lama min lvl 10
    Para bow +1 min lvl 10 on live and on lama.

  7. #87
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Its not about being able to shrug it off or keep gaming through it. Its about time put in. Ive seen ALOT of justification of being able to pay to circumvent time, while others put in a lot more time to get to the same point, and when this is pointed out, players have even been (wrongfully) accused of being jealous because someone can pay to circumvent the time vets put in. Most of the justification in forum discussions has to do with the time factor. And here, we have a situation where people put a lot of time in, and its being disregarded, in the name of "meh you can still easily play through the content".
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  8. #88
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindCakes View Post
    I think you misunderstood something.

    EDIT: or quoted the wrong post.
    I understood it quite well. I quoted the person who doesn't like the fanboi label being applied to everyone who doesn't rage (which I agree with) but then turned around and said that apparently if we don't want to be called that we should all be throwing temper tantrums (which I disagreed with) - due to the fact that labeling someone one extreme or another simply due to disagreement, on either side, is a clear indication of having nothing real to say in the discussion.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  9. #89
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    +5 Icy Burst WOP rapier went from level 16 to level 20.

    Excuse me while I put more pins in my FoS voodoo doll.
    yeah, I don't have a ton of festival stuff, but enough that it hurts.

    My main has 2x rapier with icy burst (not festival) shock and puncturing. These are the weapons I use from level 6-11.
    Also two WOPs with icy burst (not festival). These are level 14 and 16 already.

    Raising the level on these weapons is ridiculous.

    We also, for years have hunting for the random drops of nice low level weapons and now you are raising them, why? Just to **** us off?

    Certainly, those who don't have these weapons don't care if they are nerfed. Those of us who have them do care. I care!

    Can I still TR and level up without them. Yes, of course I can. The issue is that I should not have to...
    /sigh

  10. #90
    Community Member mons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    This reads as hyperbole to me, which is difficult to respond to. I'll give it my best, though.

    Only a few things are increasing the level of existing items:
    • Items crafted from the very first Risia Ice Games with "Frost" or "Icy Burst" will go up in level. (Items with "Festival Frost" or "Festival Icy Burst" from more recent Risia Ice Games will NOT go up in level.)
    • The bugged rings from a few content packs that had no minimum level at all are finally fixed.
    • Very old items with Pure Good from before Pure Good's value was raised from +1 to +2 will increase in level accordingly.


    Realistically, this is not negatively affecting most people, and the systematic improvements to the functionality of the game that it results in are worth it.

    Here's examples of some of the improvements made as a result:
    • Crafted weapons, armor, and shields will have a minimum level 1 lower than they used to.
      (If they aren't immediately affected with Update 19, you can disjunct and re-craft them for the proper level valuation)
    • Crafted items now have a platinum value appropriate to their level, rather than a value of a few copper.
    • Banishing, Vorpal, Smiting, and Disruption will begin to appear in treasure as +4 value effects, rather than +5. This means they'll contribute less to the level on your item.
    Perhaps allowing us to use the Stone of Change for those icy burst weapons that have been affected to return them to their original form thus giving us the opportunity to upgrade them with the next risia games arrive? I don't know how viable this would be but at least its something.
    Zerg of Thelanis

  11. #91
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    (2) You really think you're going to say "Man, Tear of Dhakaan is SO much harder now"?
    Tear of Dhakaan runs aren't really affected by this as most TRs will be hitting the quest at level 9. Stat gear can easily be crafted for level 9. Randomly generated Greater False Life belts are pretty common and start at level 9 as does Heavy Fortification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    (3) It's low-end loot... Vets, of all people, should be able to shrug this off.
    The items have also gradually lost their value. Those no minimum level rings are a good example of that. I have a Dexterity +6 that got a lot of use prior to MotU because it helped my characters more easily achieve 95% miss chance from AC. With the changes to AC those extra 3 points have far less impact.
    Ryiah | Raeyah | Reikara
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  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by unacceptable View Post
    Every bound to account item goes up at least 2 levels. Every one.
    Actually it works out that:

    All bound to account item will go up at least two levels - I thin I have seen some bound to account stuff that was more than two levels lower than it should have been, though this could be considered a bug
    Any of the older pure good will go up 2 levels
    Any risia icy burst weapons (as opposed to festival icy burst) will go up 4 levels.

    So anyone with a nice twink bound to account risia icy burst weapon of pure good will see the min level go up by 8 levels

    Aside from the other few mentioned, like invulnerability, there may be a others prefixes/suffixes that are going up in level. And of course there are a few going down in level. Will be interesting to see what else has changed for my crafter.

  13. #93
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    I'm probably missing something, but:
    1) How will this affect thaumaturgy quarterstaves, which routinely have +28ish enchantment by level 22ish?
    2) Regarding invulnerability, I'd like to point out that invuln gear is generally useless by level 8/9 since everything and its mother will bypass. By pushing the level up, it's basically becoming useful for all of 2-3 days of leveling, tops.
    Cannith, Slicing Blow. Vilenna (18/1/1 Clonkard), Marvala (20 monk), Phrenia (19/1 rogue/fighter), Malchara (12/6/2 AA), Denaria (18/2 ...wonk?)

  14. #94
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    What is the difference between festival icy burst and not festival icy burst?

    Did the later risia game upgrades raise the min level already? Thus making this bring the earlier ones to the same min level?
    /sigh

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    What is the difference between festival icy burst and not festival icy burst?

    Did the later risia game upgrades raise the min level already? Thus making this bring the earlier ones to the same min level?
    Basically the very first year of the Risia games the recipes added plain simply icy burst or frost, it looked and was coded as if it was just plain random loot frost/icy burst but didn't add to level. In subsequent Risia events the recipe added an effect called Festival Frost or Festival Icy Burst, again didn't add to levels, but because it was coded differently the new system can ignore it whereas it treats the original recipe effects as plain frost/icy burst and adds the appropriate number of levels.

  16. #96
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CeltEireson View Post
    Basically the very first year of the Risia games the recipes added plain simply icy burst or frost, it looked and was coded as if it was just plain random loot frost/icy burst but didn't add to level. In subsequent Risia events the recipe added an effect called Festival Frost or Festival Icy Burst, again didn't add to levels, but because it was coded differently the new system can ignore it whereas it treats the original recipe effects as plain frost/icy burst and adds the appropriate number of levels.
    That is what I thought. So basically, one group of people who played the games first is going to get screwed, while people who played the SAME game and made the SAME upgrade get to keep their weapons.

    Why can turbine not look at the weapons and recode them (or whatever) to not screw over those of us with the upgrades from the first game?
    /sigh

  17. #97
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    That is what I thought. So basically, one group of people who played the games first is going to get screwed, while people who played the SAME game and made the SAME upgrade get to keep their weapons.

    Why can turbine not look at the weapons and recode them (or whatever) to not screw over those of us with the upgrades from the first game?
    Because from the data in the database these items with the old festival icy burst are just flagged as icy burst. They could have provided a stone-of-change recipe to fix those, but well. The only chance to find those programmatically would have been to check if the item has icy burst and a ML that is too low. However they would have needed to implement that before U19 hit, which is actually to late, because with U19 the ML get automatically adjusted.

    It is just easier to...
    * We have collectable bags, hell even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
    * Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisAmethyst View Post
    The only chance to find those programmatically would have been to check if the item has icy burst and a ML that is too low. However they would have needed to implement that before U19 hit, which is actually to late, because with U19 the ML get automatically adjusted.
    Could still be done by taking the a backup of the data that gets taken before any update like we get with tomorrow's downtime and running a script to identify characters with those items in their inventory, bank space, or tr cache (and maybe any in the shared bank just get sent to the first character alphabetically for that account).

    Once you have a list, you just feed that list into another script to send them icy kits through the mail. Something like it was done for the glaciation effects we lost before, so not beyond the wit of man.

  19. #99
    Community Member eachna_gislin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Could still be done by taking the a backup of the data that gets taken before any update like we get with tomorrow's downtime and running a script to identify characters with those items in their inventory, bank space, or tr cache (and maybe any in the shared bank just get sent to the first character alphabetically for that account).

    Once you have a list, you just feed that list into another script to send them icy kits through the mail. Something like it was done for the glaciation effects we lost before, so not beyond the wit of man.
    Do you really want turbine making a global code change like this?

    Were you here when they broke monk robes by adding a distinguishable graphic to them? My mailboxes were flooded for weeks with replacement outfits I'd sold months earlier.

    And I still never got back my outfit with the large guild slot, only the medium (of course).

    Because the in game ticket tool is broken for me and staff refuses to respond to out of game web tickets.

  20. #100
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    Seems like some of my spellcaster's weapons (boost to spell damage/crit chance) have also increased in level.

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