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  1. #81
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    The TR method of raising ED's involves doing 1 destiny for each of 11 lives.
    That's not entirely accurate. Cleric for the Divine circle, Monk for the martial, Wiz or Sorc for Shiradi + Arcane circle & take your pick to finish out Fury and Avatar. 4 classes, all destinies just for a quick example. Of course, there's other consolidating synergies too. It's really not all or nothing. The "one per life" method is usually only adopted by aspiring completionests or people seeking stacking past lives.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    Also include that you shouldn't have to level from 1-20 many times in a random set of classes just to play the toon you want.
    You mean like if you want a max power character, including all the relevantly beneficial past life bonuses (x3 for caster's DCs & Spell Pen) and the completionest +2 to all stats & skills?

    Why should my max power caster be required to level as a rogue, fighter, barb, pally, ranger, arti, druid, monk and bard? None of these effect casting DCs (ok, there's the bard chooseable PL) or Spell Pen. Getting max power from destinies may require leveling in "off destinies" while playing the class/build you enjoy if you don't want to TR, but it's nothing compared to getting max power attainable by leveling entire classes you don't enjoy that are irrelevant to the class/build you want to enjoy.

    Just thought I'ld add a bit of perspective there...
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 08-15-2013 at 10:56 PM.
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  2. #82
    Community Member Tscheuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    That's not entirely accurate. Cleric for the Divine circle, Monk for the martial, Wiz or Sorc for Shiradi + Arcane circle & take your pick to finish out Fury and Avatar. 4 classes, all destinies just for a quick example. Of course, there's other consolidating synergies too. It's really not all or nothing. The "one per life" method is usually only adopted by aspiring completionests or people seeking stacking past lives.

    You mean like if you want a max power character, including all the relevantly beneficial past life bonuses (x3 for caster's DCs & Spell Pen) and the completionest +2 to all stats & skills?

    Why should my max power caster be required to level as a rogue, fighter, barb, pally, ranger, arti, druid, monk and bard? None of these effect casting DCs (ok, there's the bard chooseable PL) or Spell Pen. Getting max power from destinies may require leveling in "off destinies" while playing the class/build you enjoy if you don't want to TR, but it's nothing compared to getting max power attainable by leveling entire classes you don't enjoy that are irrelevant to the class/build you want to enjoy.

    Just thought I'ld add a bit of perspective there...
    Now here is someone who knows about choice.
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  3. #83
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Except it really doesn't add challenge, it just lowers your dps. This only makes things more challenging as it then takes longer to kill things. This means more resource usage, but that's all it means for the most part.
    Yep. And that lower DPS after being super-powered is what makes it feel so bad.

    You know what would be a GREAT change to make? Instead of "picking" a Destiny and that being the only one that gains EXP, instead have "Destiny Ranks" that you earn over time as you get Epic Exp. This would follow the same exp curve as the current Destinies, and once you reached the end of Destiny Rank 29 and acquired Rank 30, Rank 31 would would require the same amount of exp as Rank 1 thus resetting the curve.

    Each Destiny Rank earns you a Destiny Point, which is spent to advance an Epic Destiny by one bubble. You would be able to spend your points in any ED you wanted. You would still have to pick an "Active Destiny" to get the benefits from that ED, but leveling would be completely independent of which ED you are in.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by djl View Post

    You know what would be a GREAT change to make? Instead of "picking" a Destiny and that being the only one that gains EXP, instead have "Destiny Ranks" that you earn over time as you get Epic Exp. This would follow the same exp curve as the current Destinies, and once you reached the end of Destiny Rank 29 and acquired Rank 30, Rank 31 would would require the same amount of exp as Rank 1 thus resetting the curve.

    Each Destiny Rank earns you a Destiny Point, which is spent to advance an Epic Destiny by one bubble. You would be able to spend your points in any ED you wanted. You would still have to pick an "Active Destiny" to get the benefits from that ED, but leveling would be completely independent of which ED you are in.
    Now this is a very interesting idea. I wish this was mentioned last year as I doubt they are willing to spend the money to redo the ED system now. But I sure wish they would.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    Now this is a very interesting idea. I wish this was mentioned last year as I doubt they are willing to spend the money to redo the ED system now. But I sure wish they would.
    Sadly, they were (pre release) and have been (since they came live) offered may suggestions on how to make leveling "off destinies" a more palatable experience. The closest they've come to acting on them was the Shears of Fate, which were instead just used as a store purchasable exploit. It seams they'd rather just use the systems current implementation as a the stick that makes Epic TR something of a carrot...
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Except it really doesn't add challenge, it just lowers your dps. This only makes things more challenging as it then takes longer to kill things. This means more resource usage, but that's all it means for the most part.
    That's exactly the problem powergamers run into: Things in this game don't get "harder" or "easier", they just need more or less time and money (in- or out-of-game). For everybody else, playing in an off-destiny or running higher difficulties is just that, higher difficulty. A chance of dying at a moment's notice is exciting, but powergamers either don't experience it or aren't hampered by it at all.

    For me, the new XP ransack mechanic is great. I rarely play long enough in a single day and repeat few enough quests that an 18 hour wait for the XP to reset is no big deal. It'll hurt at low levels particularly, when quests are really short and not in chains, so I'll hit the XP loss pretty hard, but that just means I do other quests, or wait until tomorrow to run them again. It's literally not an issue for me, nor for a lot of other people.

    But powergamers... they'll never be satisfied. I can see why devs would simply shrug when brought complaints about this kind of thing, because there's no way of appeasing them. And it's not the powergamers themselves that's the issue, it's the way they play. Going for max XP and max efficiency negates 95% of the work the devs do when it comes to classes, races, abilities, items, quests... They'll use and abuse anything that's too easy, too fast, too efficient, and if something doesn't match those, it's worthless... I don't want to say they play the game wrong, but... well...

    I think we should see how things play out before going all haywire. The new ransack penalties stack quick, yes, but powergamers will be powergamers... they'll find a way. Being able to start farming quests at lower levels will probably largely make up for not being able to get as much XP out of subsequent runs (in heroic levels, at least), but we'll have to wait and see what people can do with that. And when it comes to EDs, I don't really know enough to say anything on that, but changing from grinding them out in a weekend to grinding them out over a week doesn't seem like that much of a problem to me. But what do I know, I'm a filthy casual. :P

  7. #87
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    Any kind of inconvenience this change has for myself in the later levels(I do chain run the 2 Culprit quests once in a while) is vastly offset by the fact that i don't have to worry about which quests i run or how i run them to get max xp out of them during the heroic levels.

  8. #88
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    Oh, so you didn't hear? They have this new thing called TR. It is really neat, because it let's you pick a different class that better fits a given next destiny.

    /sarcasm

    So, yes, there is another option, however much you try to act like it doesn't exist.
    I actually knew you would have this response. Not interested in playing certain classes just to level through off destinies and I shouldn't feel like I need to. Completionist is not something I am trying to strive for. It may be an option, but its an option that sucks and just stupid. This is the design the devs came up with. I can either TR and get completionist that would take me at least 2 years before playing a class I actually enjoy with the benefits from twists I want or I can have no fun for the next month leveling through destinies that weaken my character considerably until I get the twists I want. Either option sucks, but I'll take the second one.

    I think you are in the minority on the extreme option.

  9. #89
    Community Member Tscheuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    I actually knew you would have this response. Not interested in playing certain classes just to level through off destinies and I shouldn't feel like I need to. Completionist is not something I am trying to strive for. It may be an option, but its an option that sucks and just stupid. This is the design the devs came up with. I can either TR and get completionist that would take me at least 2 years before playing a class I actually enjoy with the benefits from twists I want or I can have no fun for the next month leveling through destinies that weaken my character considerably until I get the twists I want. Either option sucks, but I'll take the second one.

    I think you are in the minority on the extreme option.
    Would that be the 'I want to explore every facet of this game' extreme, or the 'I want to max out my character' extreme, or the 'I'll get there when I get there' extreme?
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    I think you are in the minority on the extreme option.
    Agreed. No matter how they spin it, the fact still is that to earn more twists... you have to play outside that destiny. Either by going back to heroic, or by going to other destinies.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    Would that be the 'I want to explore every facet of this game' extreme, or the 'I want to max out my character' extreme, or the 'I'll get there when I get there' extreme?
    It would be the, I don't want to have to do extreme silly stuff just to get an incremental improvement. There should be an option to advance that doesn't involve transforming my character into something else for a significant period of time.

    Twists are a big part of the epic destinies, the way they are currently earned is a poor design. Your arguments don't change that.

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