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  1. #1
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Default Yes, you all want Otto's Boxes. Have fun with that.

    OK, I get it. You all want Otto's boxes.

    It's getting a little bit tiresome though. I don't know how many people you think are just sitting on them waiting to trade them for gear, but the demand clearly outweighs the supply. By about 100 to 0. Trade chat is just a constant spam of people asking for Otto's right now. The server marketplace forums have been bad enough. I mean, I see that you all have big lists of mediocre EE items that you think are worth around $50 US in some combination or another, but good god. Even if the items you are offering are decent, it almost seems like insider trading with things about to change.

    I'm not coming back into this thread because this is going to be a one way communication, but I will preemptively post my responses below. Feel free to imagine them after any of the posts that might follow.

    "Oh cool, you did manage to rip someone off for an Otto's Box? That's great. I guess if enough people ask for them constantly it might work out for a person or two.
    It's like asking everyone you meet out on a date. Someone somewhere is going to be drunk enough."

    "Oh really? You like to sell them? Are you sure you aren't just the alt account of someone who is trying to buy them?"

    and finally...

    "Oh, you think what you offer is a fair exchange? Well then let me ask you this; How many Otto's Boxes have you sold? Oh wait, you only buy them? I wonder why that is..."

  2. #2
    Founder & Hero Gara's Avatar
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    The value is subjective. One thing I am really tired of is people saying the boxes cost $50.00. Are alot of people really waiting until the Ottos is in the store before they buy points? The value is closer to $30 or under for anyone with half a brain who plans ahead.

    If anything I wish they would wait longer between releases of these evil things. They do indeed wreck the economy or enhance it depending on how resourceful you are during the time they are available.
    Last edited by Gara; 08-14-2013 at 09:45 PM.

  3. #3
    Community Member TheNameIwasntB4's Avatar
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    Default Want to have fun with them?

    Link your Otto's Box, and see the measly offers they send you.

    For some reason, they think virtual vendor trash is worth something. Yes, there are the fair and good offers, but the ratio of idiotic offers to good offers is about nine to one.

    I feel sorry for the players(mostly kids) that are taken advantage of. This sort of brings out the evil in society, not the good.
    April 2013 - Manager Meeting - New Forums, WOW!! We just had over 90% new players join!!

  4. #4

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    The truth some people don't wanna face, Otto's Box (at least the stone) is p2w.

    Btw, can you please put sos shard in store? I want ESOS without killing velah! :P

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by morkahn82 View Post
    The truth some people don't wanna face, Otto's Box (at least the stone) is p2w.
    No, Otto's boxes are pay to level faster, like xp pots.

    The main p2w item in the game is Epic Destinies. Without them you basically are near useless so you have to pay to buy them.

  6. #6
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    I honestly have no idea why they made these things tradeable. I mean, none of the items in them are tradeable, are they? So why should the whole package be?

    Having items like this tradeable essentially makes them an alternative currency of sorts, and that's why they are so prevalent in trade requests and offers.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citzen_Gkar View Post
    No, Otto's boxes are pay to level faster, like xp pots.

    The main p2w item in the game is Epic Destinies. Without them you basically are near useless so you have to pay to buy them.
    Experience potions are pay to level faster. Stones are instant leveling without playing. You dont get a bonus on xp, you buy xp. Big difference. And since the whole game is about character progress and to gear your character, its p2w.

    Completionist lost its predicate being an achievement to me. Nevertheless I go for it, wo stones.
    Last edited by morkahn82; 08-16-2013 at 06:12 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by morkahn82 View Post
    Big difference.
    Difference? Yes. Big difference? No. In both cases you're paying cash to skip chunks of the game. That's all it boils down to.

  9. #9
    Community Member Uidolon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citzen_Gkar View Post
    No, Otto's boxes are pay to level faster, like xp pots.

    The main p2w item in the game is Epic Destinies. Without them you basically are near useless so you have to pay to buy them.
    the diffrence is that ED you still need to do the grind after you bought them and this is content they have made not getting big boost without work. otto lets you pass directly to goal collect the PL skipping past the grind.
    buying ED tomes of fate that is win on the other hand you a stacking bonus that is practically impossible to get ingame without using store.

    saying ED is win is like saying new adventure packs is p2w.

    dont like the fact that ottos and raidbypasses are tradeable since you can then buy and trade them making them indirectly what they promised they would not do add powerful gear into the ddo store.

    Quote Originally Posted by morkahn82 View Post
    Completionist lost its predicate being an achievement to me.
    i agree on this when a completionist reached completionst hed have what is it 4 lives left if he had not been eating +30%pots all the time. that is day and nite difference. seeing as you use the pots on the most effective quests and then can avoid worse exp/quests its in practice even more then 30%.
    Last edited by Uidolon; 08-16-2013 at 06:14 AM.

  10. #10
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    It's interesting that, in combination with the new Daily Dice, you could probably work out a $ (or at the least Turbine Points) value equivalent of a completionist character.

    i.e.
    Average number of gold daily dice rolls to go from level 1 to 8 given expected value of experience point bonus that comes with each roll x TP cost per roll +
    TP cost of an Otto's Box +
    Average number of gold daily dice rolls to go from 16 to 20 given expected value of experience point bonus that comes with each roll x TP cost per roll +
    TP cost of True Heart of Wood
    x
    13

    Oh, I suppose the first life would be a little less too, since you start at level 7.

    Oh, and first and second life have different experience requirements to the remaining 11. Could be factored in obviously.

    Just a thought. I don't have enough info on the daily dice xp bonuses to calculate it. Or really the inclination, but I'd happily read someone else's figures!
    Khyber: Aggrim (Completionist!)
    All of my builds are grossly out of date. Just roll a human or drow mechanic / assassin rogue thing.
    Blind insta-kills floating eye balls.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Difference? Yes. Big difference? No. In both cases you're paying cash to skip chunks of the game. That's all it boils down to.
    Well, yes then, experience pots from store are p2w too, just like rare tomes. These were always my thoughts, but I would have never quoted that in forums.

    Since we can buy xp and rare tomes in store why not rare gear? Doesn't make much difference any more.

    And yes I know, there is actually nothing you can "win" in the game.
    Last edited by morkahn82; 08-16-2013 at 06:22 AM.

  12. #12
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    I don't want an Otto's box.
    There is no free lunch.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by morkahn82 View Post
    Well, yes then, experience pots from store are p2w too, just like rare tomes. These were always my thoughts, but I would have never quoted that in forums.

    Since we can buy xp and rare tomes in store why not rare gear? Doesn't make much difference any more.

    And yes I know, there is actually nothing you can "win" in the game.
    Tomes aren't really equivalent. They make a small difference in character ability -- a difference that matters less with each update, actually -- but don't allow you to skip things. XP pots and these stupid boxes do.

    And I really don't buy into the "P2W" concept either. I just think it's sad how many experienced players fall into the trap of being in a big hurry to get nowhere, and how many new players end up at high levels but completely unprepared because of these means of skipping content.

    What people call "pay to win" in here is really "pay to brag", because that's all you can do with a powerful character you bought your way to -- and it's really nothing to brag about anyway.

  14. #14
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    If you don't like them, don't buy them.

    Turbine needs to make a little cash too, yaknow.

    If you think grinding out a past life somehow makes you 'cooler', then good for you.

    It's none of your business what we spend our money on - it's our money, not yours.

    Sorry it's bothering you so much. Perhaps you need a break from the trade channel?

  15. #15
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eris2323 View Post
    If you don't like them, don't buy them.

    Turbine needs to make a little cash too, yaknow.

    If you think grinding out a past life somehow makes you 'cooler', then good for you.

    It's none of your business what we spend our money on - it's our money, not yours.

    Sorry it's bothering you so much. Perhaps you need a break from the trade channel?
    Those of us who enjoy playing the entire game use that trade channel. No one cares how you spend your money, and no one is jealous that you can pay for a past life when other people play to get it.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Those of us who enjoy playing the entire game use that trade channel. No one cares how you spend your money, and no one is jealous that you can pay for a past life when other people play to get it.
    Certainly seemed that way from the original post.

    Sorry it's bothering you too. Perhaps in a week or so it'll all die down, like last time, and you can go back to other silly people selling other stuff for outrageous prices.

    "I'm sick of all these pesky people having wants and needs and using the marketplace, how dare they use it to attempt to trade for something!"

  17. #17
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eris2323 View Post
    Certainly seemed that way from the original post.

    Sorry it's bothering you too. Perhaps in a week or so it'll all die down, like last time, and you can go back to other silly people selling other stuff for outrageous prices.

    "I'm sick of all these pesky people having wants and needs and using the marketplace, how dare they use it to attempt to trade for something!"
    Bothering me? LOL no - its hilarious, pure entertainment value. Someone puts a box up for sale and gets offered shinola for it in the trade channel, which starts flame wars, and soon the discussion is a 2 way troll session about how the other person obviously doesn't understand how economies work. One line of attempted trade + 30 minutes of flame fest =/= using the marketplace for its intended purpose.

    Those are the people who should leave the trade channel, and allow the rest of us to use it for, you know......TRADING. This is the point the OP was making. Your accusations of it bothering us that people spend their money to not play DDO are a well rehearsed straw man argument that has nothing to do with the OP whatsoever. No one cares what you spend your money on, and no one is jealous of people who pay to not play DDO.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Bothering me? LOL no - its hilarious, pure entertainment value. Someone puts a box up for sale and gets offered shinola for it in the trade channel, which starts flame wars, and soon the discussion is a 2 way troll session about how the other person obviously doesn't understand how economies work. One like of attempted trade + 30 minutes of flame fest =/= using the marketplace for its intended purpose.

    Those are the people who should leave the trade channel, and allow the rest of us to use it for, you know......TRADING. This is the point the OP was making. Your accusations of it bothering them that people spend their money to not play DDO are a well rehearsed straw man argument that has nothing to do with the OP whatsoever.
    I know nothing of these 'straw men' you speak of, do I need special bane weapons for them?

    Who cares, this is just another 'omg people play the way i want you to play' thread.

    Haven't noticed any huge flamewars in trade channels recently myself.

    How DARE people use the market channels to try to trade, I know right? The nerve of them.

  19. #19
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eris2323 View Post
    I know nothing of these 'straw men' you speak of, do I need special bane weapons for them?

    Who cares, this is just another 'omg people play the way i want you to play' thread.

    Haven't noticed any huge flamewars in trade channels recently myself.

    How DARE people use the market channels to try to trade, I know right? The nerve of them.
    No its a thread about people using the market channels to flame eachother due to not agreeing on what ottos box is worth.

    All this stuff you keep accusing people of about being jealous about how someone else spends their money, is a straw man argument.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    No its a thread about people using the market channels to flame eachother due to not agreeing on what ottos box is worth.

    All this stuff you keep accusing people of about being jealous about how someone else spends their money, is a straw man argument.
    I guess we both came away from that first post with different impressions of it, then.

    I guess we can't squelch people in marketplace chat? Granted, I've never tried.....

    The original poster states he won't be coming back to argue - guess you are filling in for him?

    Thanks for that, it's awesome having someone like you around to take up the slack!

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