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  1. #1
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    Default Arcane Supremacy - looks great but is it really?

    From the AM enhancement tree.

    Arcane Supremacy [2 AP] (ML 5, Char 12, 30 AP)
    On offensive spell cast: 10% chance of: +25% Spell Critical Chance, +100% Spell Critical Damage
    12 sec duration, 90 sec cooldown

    This looks really cool but how much does it actually add?

    Lets say on average it takes 10 sec to make it proc (thats somewhat generous with a 10% chance) meaning its active 12 sec every 100 sec for a 12% uptime.

    If you have no spell crit chance without it the +25% would add 25% more damage total but since you are likely to have another 25% crit chance at least from other source these 25% to base adds 20% total (150% / 125% = 1.2).

    If you had zero crit damage otherwise the +100% would double your crit damage. Since you are likely to have some crit damage from other sources as well lets say 50% then these +100% to base is actually 67% (250% / 150% = 1.67). I am unsure about the exact sources of spell crit damage available after U19 but +50% sounds on the low side to me.

    In total this means that Arcane Supremacy roughly adds 12% * 20% * 67% = 1.6% to your total damage on average.

    Maybe its just me but this seems a bit underwhelmning. I might think that the 100% crit damage should be +200% instead.

    Compare this to adding +30 USP from tier 2 in the AoV FvS tree. Even with 600 spell power another 30 is a raw increase of 5% to all spell damage - and an even larger increase with lower than 600 spell power. Admittingly this cost 3ap while Arcane Supremany only cost 2ap but its much easier to accesss.

    Obviously one can simply take both in some cases but for my WF Wiz/FvS/Mnk there are simply so many great enhancements to pick from that its hard to spent 30ap in the AM tree to reach Arcane Supremacy if its not better than 1.6% increase to overall spell damage.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    In total this means that Arcane Supremacy roughly adds 12% * 20% * 67% = 1.6% to your total damage on average.
    It would be 0.12*1.20*1.67 with you numbers, giving roughly 24% more damage. I think. This is too early for math.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  3. #3
    Community Member Uidolon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    Compare this to adding +30 USP from tier 2 in the AoV FvS tree. Even with 600 spell power another 30 is a raw increase of 5% to all spell damage
    dont understand how this is relevant to the arcane supreme enhancment?

    it seems cheap for 2AP if your anyhow in that tree. it might not be extremly good still id consider it worth 2ap for sure unless the other enhancments are super great and then your golden anyhow since all the other stuff are good. comparing a single enchanment from one tree with a completely diffrent tree that has a completely diffrent set of spells seems illogical to me

  4. #4
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    If you're primarily a Shiradi Caster using the Archmage Evocations SLAs, I think you'd be making a terrible decision not to get this.

    If you're a DC caster, take augmented Lich Form and +1 Necro DCs from T5 Pale Master instead.

    End of list.

    My 2c is that, frankly, Shiradis didn't need the boost, but DC casters did, but that's not what's happened in the Archmage tree so here we are.
    Khyber: Aggrim (Completionist!)
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  5. #5
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    If you had zero crit damage otherwise the +100% would double your crit damage. Since you are likely to have some crit damage from other sources as well lets say 50% then these +100% to base is actually 67% (250% / 150% = 1.67). I am unsure about the exact sources of spell crit damage available after U19 but +50% sounds on the low side to me.
    I might be wrong that I don't think you can get Spell critical damage on Wizards anymore. So it's just that +100% from Arcane Supremacy.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    I might be wrong that I don't think you can get Spell critical damage on Wizards anymore. So it's just that +100% from Arcane Supremacy.
    Not even on items? Thats where I had the 50% from but I suppose that might be gone as well. As posted I wasnt exactly certain about that number. Not that it matters too much if its 2% or slightly less overall.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    If you're primarily a Shiradi Caster using the Archmage Evocations SLAs, I think you'd be making a terrible decision not to get this.

    If you're a DC caster, take augmented Lich Form and +1 Necro DCs from T5 Pale Master instead.

    End of list.

    My 2c is that, frankly, Shiradis didn't need the boost, but DC casters did, but that's not what's happened in the Archmage tree so here we are.
    The point I am trying to make here is that supremacy isnt really all that good - about on par with a plain +2% to crits. Still worth having if you have enough AP to spend in the tree but nothing spectacular.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uidolon View Post
    dont understand how this is relevant to the arcane supreme enhancment?

    it seems cheap for 2AP if your anyhow in that tree. it might not be extremly good still id consider it worth 2ap for sure unless the other enhancments are super great and then your golden anyhow since all the other stuff are good. comparing a single enchanment from one tree with a completely diffrent tree that has a completely diffrent set of spells seems illogical to me
    My point is that I hear some people saying that AM has been buffed alot because of Arcane Supremacy. What I am trying to show is that its decent but nothing spectacular. That has nothing to do with AM being good overall or not.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    If you had zero crit damage otherwise the +100% would double your crit damage. Since you are likely to have some crit damage from other sources as well lets say 50% then these +100% to base is actually 67% (250% / 150% = 1.67). I am unsure about the exact sources of spell crit damage available after U19 but +50% sounds on the low side to me.
    All crit damage will be +100%, with virtually no way to improve it.

    Meaning Arcane Supremacy procs take your crits from 200% to 300%.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    It would be 0.12*1.20*1.67 with you numbers, giving roughly 24% more damage. I think. This is too early for math.
    I agree - it was too early for math - as far as I can tell none of us had it right.

    Lets assume a 20% crit chance without the effect and that each crit does 2 times the normal damage. I dont know the exact values here, so someone who actually knows the correct numbers is very welcome to correct them.

    Without supremacy you are getting:
    - 80% non crits for 1.0 base damage = 0.8
    - 20% crits for 2.0 base damage = 0.4
    Total 1.20 base damage (I know, that wasnt hard to see)

    With supremacy you are getting:
    90% of the time supremacy isnt on.
    - 80% non crits for 1.0 base damage 90% of the time = 0.720
    - 20% crits for 2.0 base damage 90% of the time = 0.360
    10% of the time supremacy is on.
    - 55% non crits for 1.0 base damage 10% of the time = 0.055
    - 45% crits for 3.0 base damage 10% of the time = 0.125
    Total of 1.26 base damage

    Total increase of 5% (1.26/1.20 = 1.05)

    What I forgot was that the extra +100% damage doesnt just affect the extra 25% chance and vice versa.

    Assuming my numbers are correct I have to admit that my first post was wrong. A 5% increase is very worthwhile and I stand corrected.

  11. #11
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    Your second post looks more right. And my math skills stll suck.

    It's definitely an N-word.

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