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  1. #1
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    Default 10k words b4 the pass

    If a picture is worth a thousand words then it follows.

    This is the last version of the heavily multiclassed div/arcane spellpower builds before they disappear with the enhancement pass, I have made several versions, the only 2 that ive discussed much on the forums are the latest. This build is 13druid/7artie.

    All could/can solo EE quests well, even the latest "hard" ones(gh). Although I thought this would be obvious after I showed some massive damage on the previous version and explained how hard the builds were to kill due to heal amp and strong self healing, apparently this was too much of a leap for many who are opposed to creative builds and playstyles, so heres the proof requested, even tho it shouldn't be necessary for anyone whos played the game a while and has experience soloing ee (who would therefore know approx. how much health EE mobs would generally have, the dc reqs, the use of debuffs etc etc).

    change setting to 720hd and go fullscreen if you cant see the text well.

    http://youtu.be/o2vlRwKp6m0
    http://youtu.be/w3Da-bHYYrU

    The first video is a few screenshots, a couple funny pics of spellpower and equipment bonus maxish, then a ss of completing a gh ee(the one someone said I couldn't complete).

    For spellpower, only 2 I had maxed in the ss were cold and force with +120 staff, rest were all +80.

    The equipment bonus ss is near max, im pretty sure I could get it to +60ish for a screenshot if I really tried, but this is the best I can get solo with this build.

    The EE completion screenshot, now that ive run that one on ee a good bit for testing I can tell you its not that rough once you know it well, can do it in several if not all destinies, and I can do only using ranged or melee and no offensive spells/ed abilities. However, with the endboss at 90k health, that's would suck.

    The ee vid was done with only self buffs and not using any hard to get or short buffs (like draco +50 SP clickie), used no ship buffs so I could prove that being in an animal form would be effective (-2 int = -1 dc on draco ed bombs), I didn't use any long ranged abilities (this build has arty lvls w/insightful dmg) so I could show that the EE killing can be done with spells and ed clickies, some with dcs, some without using a severely multiclassed non cookie cutter build. I actually chose the videos that did not get many crits on purpose to show these builds don't rely on crits, I also didn't use any hard to get epic gear, not a single crafted epic item, twilight and echrono set would've increase damage a lot for example. If I were to set up the perfect group I could definitely set a new record for max damage crit in the game(as has always been the case with these builds a little math can prove it), but then in a few days everything goes haywire, so not gonna happen.

    For those who attacked me for my unusual builds and my assertion that they could do massive dps and solo ees, as ive said before lose your prejudice and learn the game.

  2. #2
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Well this isn't going to end well lol Look man I know why you're so preemptive about this subject I agree that an unfortunately large part of the DDO player base can be pretty elitist, unimaginative and really ignorant about multiclassing and that can ruin the fun of build creativity in a game that is literally only still functioning because of build diversity.

    I like your ideas and when I found out how heighten really works with MCL and Spell power and crit stacking in one of your threads I even built a toon inspired by that.

    A 16 Bard 3 Wiz 1 Druid, that will be if not killed by the Pass then at least left in a ditch all bloody and with a Permanent limp.

    Last I ran him (IronDuergar on Thelanis) he had something like 28% crit chance on Sonic spells, and 520-something sonic spell power (all told, so including Max/Emp), I haven't done ED's yet for obvious reasons... Even had a DC that was as good as any Bard's is going to be, without stacking Focuses up or gearing purely for CC.

    So that said; even I can see where people are going to choose to attack, people are going to say "why no video that actually shows you solo'ing an entire EE or at least a significant portion. That's where they're going to stick the barbs bro. They're going to attack you because you're so preemptive and antagonistic, not that many of them know what they're talking about or have anything valid to bring just insults and parroting others who at least have some nit pick or reasonable SOUNDING criticism even if it turns out not to be valid. They'll just jump on the pile on. Mostly because you don't have a Vid of extended gameplay to shut them up.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01000010 View Post
    For those who attacked me for my unusual builds and my assertion that they could do massive dps and solo ees, as ive said before lose your prejudice and learn the game.
    After seeing what this thread had turned into and the attitudes presented, I retract what I have said.
    Last edited by Drwaz99; 08-14-2013 at 10:14 PM. Reason: I was wrong, way wrong.

  4. #4
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    I don't think caster/caster builds are going to vanish altogether. In fact, I'm planning a 15 Sorc/3 Wiz/2 Cleric, though I need to test things stacking and figure out how my AP will end up.

    15 Sorc gives me the basis for my damage spells, and caps a lot of the main spells I'll be using (Wall of Fire, Ice Storm, Cone of Cold to name a few), 3 Wiz gives me access to Zombie form for immunities, 100% Fort, and innate self-healing. 2 Cleric gives me Heal as a class skill for negative spell power, and armor proficiency (in case I ever am able to get a decent suit to 0% ASF).

    I won't have the DCs (especially with the -4 CHA from Zombie form), Spell Pen, or high-level spells, but that's not what Sorcs are for, anyways! My favourite character I've run was a pure Pale Master, and this seems like it'll be better than that was in pretty much every respect save for CCing (which I didn't use most of the time anyways!) and instakilling. More SP, more spell power, faster spellcasts and cooldowns... all the benefits of being a Pale Master, but on a Sorcerer! Something I could only dream of before, because 14 Sorc/6 Wiz ended up being pretty bleh because of things like Spell Focus requirements for PrEs and pretty heavy lack of negative spellpower due to the Pale Master enhancements being the only source of that without multiclassing and hurting the offensive power even more.

    Granted, I don't think caster/caster builds will be that great outside of specifically undead builds, but that'll be there, at least. I wouldn't be surprised if we see more caster/melee builds now, too, especially with more relaxed feat requirements in a lot of areas. It may not be massive damage like you have, but then again I'm not sure we can call what you've done "intended" anyways. :P

  5. #5
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    The build is not good, sorry.

    Most EE GH are some of the easiest EEs in the game, so it's not even a good metric. Let's see you solo EE tor dragons, FoT or some tougher epics. You can't, so you'll never post a screenshot about it. It would take you less time than the amount of trouble you go through defending your poor build.

    On the other hand, multi-caster-class builds are getting a HUGE boost after the expansion. Wizard/fvs/sorc mixes will be extremely common.

    So basically, anyone who knows how to play a caster knows that you don't know what you're talking about. It's just obvious, but sorry it's not obvious to you. I sincerely don't mean any offense.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01000010 View Post
    This is the last version of the heavily multiclassed div/arcane spellpower builds before they disappear with the enhancement pass,
    Disappear? ?*Guess again...

    After the enhancement pass, FVS spash in shiradi builds is going to be a very tempting. I have also tried a 13 fvs/7 wiz build on test that was a lot of fun. The AoV PRE allows for some very strong spell power.

  7. #7
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    I have to echo Iron's comments here. I've been impressed by the creativity and the mixtures you have put together. The numbers you have are impressive. However, the BUT in all of this is that your presentation has always been abrasive. You lose so much of the good stuff you are trying to deliver in how you present it.

    I also agree that I don't think we will see the Multi-class caster disappear anytime soon. In fact the only way I can see that happen is if DC casting became once again the TOP DOG. And while I have seen some nice things in the Enhancement pass that will help, it by no means makes it top dog in the Epic realm.

    Again nice numbers, keep up the creative thinking. But if I could leave you with a piece of advice, it would be to lose the abrasive presentation - forget about the naysayers, present your findings show your results. And in the end understand it is easy for critics to critique - but also be open for something you have not thought about, as this is what you are hoping from your readers.

  8. #8
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    I have to echo Iron's comments here. I've been impressed by the creativity and the mixtures you have put together. The numbers you have are impressive. However, the BUT in all of this is that your presentation has always been abrasive. You lose so much of the good stuff you are trying to deliver in how you present it.

    I also agree that I don't think we will see the Multi-class caster disappear anytime soon. In fact the only way I can see that happen is if DC casting became once again the TOP DOG. And while I have seen some nice things in the Enhancement pass that will help, it by no means makes it top dog in the Epic realm.

    Again nice numbers, keep up the creative thinking. But if I could leave you with a piece of advice, it would be to lose the abrasive presentation - forget about the naysayers, present your findings show your results. And in the end understand it is easy for critics to critique - but also be open for something you have not thought about, as this is what you are hoping from your readers.
    All he has to do is take a screen of him completing a tough challenge. Instead, he spends about 10x more recording effort taking videos of him killing spiders in quite possibly the easiest EE in the game?

    Come on. No one who plays this game seriously is impressed with him killing spiders in EE trial by fire.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    All he has to do is take a screen of him completing a tough challenge. Instead, he spends about 10x more recording effort taking videos of him killing spiders in quite possibly the easiest EE in the game?

    Come on. No one who plays this game seriously is impressed with him killing spiders in EE trial by fire.


    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    I sincerely don't mean any offense.
    *edit*
    Meh, nobody is right in the thread. What I posted wasn't right, so now it's gone. One things still stands tho:

    Take it to PM's.
    Last edited by Drwaz99; 08-14-2013 at 10:15 PM.

  10. #10
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    What I don't understand is why you feel like you have to come here and basically insult him and his build. It's almost like you want to "put him in his place". And just know when people type this:



    I usually means that you know your post was offensive. It's another version "Don't take this the wrong way, but...." Have you ever considered giving polite constructive criticism instead saying they doesn't know ****.

    Is it the absolute best build? That's completely subjective but probably no. Is it a effective build that does well? Absolutely. I think that any build that can solo ANY EE quest is a solid build when you consider there are many more people out there who cannot do EE even in a full and balanced party.

    Sure he comes over a little brash. I bet that's partially because individuals like you choose to be rude and make a point to point out all the flaws. But he's proud of his build and what he can do, and just because you disagree I can't find a reasonable reason as to why you would come in here and start trashing him.

    Then again maybe there's more to the story than what is represented here. And if that's the case, take it to PM's.
    Sometimes hypocrisy isn't apparent to the pot. When I mangle expressions, it is because I am being clever. You, however, are not.

  11. #11
    The Hatchery stoerm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Let's see you solo EE tor dragons, FoT or some tougher epics. You can't, so you'll never post a screenshot about it. It would take you less time than the amount of trouble you go through defending your poor build.
    At this point we need a screenshot or a link from you, or you're just a troll.
    Praise the Dark Six and pass the heals to pure melees.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    The build is not good, sorry.

    Most EE GH are some of the easiest EEs in the game, so it's not even a good metric. Let's see you solo EE tor dragons, FoT or some tougher epics. You can't, so you'll never post a screenshot about it. It would take you less time than the amount of trouble you go through defending your poor build.

    On the other hand, multi-caster-class builds are getting a HUGE boost after the expansion. Wizard/fvs/sorc mixes will be extremely common.

    So basically, anyone who knows how to play a caster knows that you don't know what you're talking about. It's just obvious, but sorry it's not obvious to you. I sincerely don't mean any offense.
    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Sometimes hypocrisy isn't apparent to the pot. When I mangle expressions, it is because I am being clever. You, however, are not.

    First of all, it is absolutely adorable you consider yourself clever, I wont argue with you on that point, im pretty sure youre incapable of being convinced otherwise despite any amount of evidence.

    1. I can solo ee Tor dragons and the vast majority of other epics. I chose this one because someone named it specifically because they felt it was "harder" than the "easy" EEs.
    2. Casters are the easy button, they aren't hard to play, wether dc based, nuker, shiradii tankish, yeah, not hard to play, the fact that you think someone whos played twice as long as you wouldn't know how to play a caster reveals that you likely had problems learning to play a caster yourself. Congrats on finally "mastering" them.
    3. This isn't a caster build, it is a hybrid.
    4. You don't offend me, but I do feel bad for you.

    To everyone else, thanks for the support, yeah, I can be abrasive, not one to turn the other cheek. Someone wants to throw a punch at me they better hope they have a good chin.

    I agree caster multiclass will still be possible after the pass, what I meant was something along the lines of this build wouldn't, the overall high spellpower and crit range/multiplier will simply not be possible soon, but I agree there are some nice combos that will be possible, splash fvs the most obvious.
    Last edited by 01000010; 08-14-2013 at 06:39 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoerm View Post
    At this point we need a screenshot or a link from you, or you're just a troll.
    Even when Atomic is criticizing my builds, he's giving me information to improve them. The OP set the tone of the thread, and the most abrasive post in the thread is still the original.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01000010 View Post
    I agree caster multiclass will still be possible after the pass, what I meant was something along the lines of this build wouldn't, the overall high spellpower and crit range/multiplier will simply not be possible soon, but I agree there are some nice combos that will be possible, splash fvs the most obvious.
    If you would focus more on being clear and accurate rather than trying to be sensational or puffing yourself up...

    You'd get a ton more support and the right kind of attention.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    If you would focus more on being clear and accurate rather than trying to be sensational or puffing yourself up...

    You'd get a ton more support and the right kind of attention.
    Nitpicking +1!!!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    ...killing spiders in quite possibly the easiest EE in the game?

    Come on. No one who plays this game seriously is impressed with him killing spiders in EE trial by fire.
    Come on. No one who plays this game seriously thinks Trial By Fire is anywhere close to being in the running for easiest EE. (Though it's certainly one of the easier of the GH EEs.)

    You have run Lords of Dust, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    ...if DC casting became once again the TOP DOG. And while I have seen some nice things in the Enhancement pass that will help, it by no means makes it top dog in the Epic realm.
    I didn't actually run quests on Lama with it enough to tell for sure, but DC casting did get a huge boost. I know my character's DC will go up by 9 points or so.

    I don't care whether it is "top dog", but I'll be happy to have it more useful than it has been.

  18. #18
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoerm View Post
    At this point we need a screenshot or a link from you, or you're just a troll.
    I am going to second this.

  19. #19
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01000010 View Post
    ...
    To everyone else, thanks for the support, yeah, I can be abrasive, not one to turn the other cheek. Someone wants to throw a punch at me they better hope they have a good chin.

    ...
    See this right here is the issue that I've been trying to point out. You have some very interesting insights, but you come out posturing and ready to fight. That is like showing up in a crowd and calling them all names - of course someone is going to take a jab at you.

    There will always be people that will disagree with your ideas and if they work or even if they are the best. When you come to realize that you can learn to communicate better because you are no longer tied down by taking an abrasive offensive stance against an onslaught that has not happened yet.

    Some of the best ways to pre-emptively counter known arguments is to draw out the comparisons between traditional thinking and your idea. Showing that comparison also shows that you have thought this out (like I can tell you have). Again stay true to the goal you have with your post - which seems to be education on how multi-class actually works and don't get sidetracked by the "Must Win a Fight" that some forum posters will attempt to goad you into.

  20. #20
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    I didn't actually run quests on Lama with it enough to tell for sure, but DC casting did get a huge boost. I know my character's DC will go up by 9 points or so.

    I don't care whether it is "top dog", but I'll be happy to have it more useful than it has been.
    My experience on LAM does show that my DC caster will get a nice improvement. I also don't care if DC casting gets "Top Dog" status once again like it did when epics first came out and again when the Epic Ward was modified. "Top Dogs" always have a target on their back .

    I want to see multiple paths to power, I really don't want to see everyone playing the same character Build,.

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