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  1. #1
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    Default A Plea to the Devs Regarding Divine Might

    I would like to take this opportunity to ask the Devs to please reconsider the change to Divine Might that makes it an insight bonus to Strength. I'm not really going to talk about DM from the standpoint of a min/max build situation, although I'm not entirely sure that Paladins needed a nerf to their somewhat anemic DPS output. Honestly, I can see a lot of situations where having DM be a modifier to strength will be helpful, although I can't imagine anyone will be able to get a +16 to their charisma modifier in order to replace the current +8 to damage. However, as far as that goes, it is now cheaper and easier to get, therefore, I think that tradeoff is probably pretty close to a push, especially with the instantaneous casting time.


    Thematically, however, making Divine Might into an INSIGHT bonus to strength is just wrong. This is supposed to be a "special Paladin bonus" and yet it is replicated on many epic items? I mean, c'mon, Kensais got a slight nerf when their strength bonus was switched to psionic, but at least that conflicted with only one named item. Also, with the increase of the level cap to (eventually) 30, I'm sure we will be seeing insightful strength +5 items, at least. I know I said I would not discuss min/max stuff, but I digress for a minute. Now you are talking about an increase of +3 (or 4.5) to damage, instead of +8. The cost wasn't lowered that much. Now it's not a push, but a push off a cliff! Ok, now to return to theme. It's also now the same bonus that any Tom, ****, and Harry (or should I say XxTomxX, Xx****xX, or Arraetrikos) can get by buying it off the auction house. I can see it now...


    Pally (chest puffed out): "My god loves me, he gave me an insight bonus to my strength in order for me to carry out his will upon the world!!!!"

    XxTomxX: "Big deal, I bought a weapon that does the same for me from a peddlar this morning."

    Pally (deflating a little): "Well, hrm, (regaining some of his poise) that must be a VERY special weapon, blessed by my god in order that I might not have to shoulder the burden of carrying out his entire will upon the world all by my lonesome!!!!"

    XxTomxX: "Nah, he had like 20 of em. Said he couldn't get rid of em fast enough."

    XxTomxX: "Dude, you alright? You're not crying, are you?"

    Pally (shoulders slumped, head bowed):"Hem, hrm, no, no, I'm ok, I think I'll go carry out my god's will over here in the corner if you don't mind..."

    I understand that making it a Sacred bonus conflicts with Sacred Defender stance, making it a Divine Bonus might conflict with the cleric trees, but it should be something special. Heck, make it a KOTD (KOTC/HOTD) bonus if the truth is that you don't want it to conflict with other enhancement bonuses. Paladins actually get little enough that sets them apart from other classes, please don't take away one of the few things that was uniquely Paladin.

    Edit: That bit that is starred out is supposed to be the short form of the name Richard. Forgot it probably wouldn't survive the filter.
    Last edited by BDog77; 08-13-2013 at 05:51 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    I agree it should stack with insightful and I think it should be a generic +to_hit/Damage.

    As it is now it doesn't help anyone who gets their main damage bonus from Charisma, Dex, or Wisdom (basically any stat besides strength).

  3. #3
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Just switch it to a Psionic bonus and you're good. Sure then it'll interfere with Power surge from Fighters, but at least it's only that one thing that involves 1 kind of build.

  4. #4
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    I want you to turn pld's hearts black as coal and have them start to worship lolth. Or some other evil deity.

    I want my pld rip out another characters beating heart, and bite down into it making that gurgling delight sound as their blood shot eyes open wide gaping at nothing with the thick clotted blood running down their chin from their jaws.


    Now that's the kinda pld I can get behind.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    Just switch it to a Psionic bonus and you're good. Sure then it'll interfere with Power surge from Fighters, but at least it's only that one thing that involves 1 kind of build.
    I think changing it to a Psionic bonus would be a bad idea. As it stands now it is a particularly good buff in regards to pushing your strength based tactics and has a synergy with Kensai and power surge.
    It would definitely affect its usefulness if it was changed to a Psionic bonus, it should definitely be its own bonus that stacks with all other strength bonuses, how they type it though I am unsure. How about a Peity bonus?

    Anyways just my thought on it.
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  6. #6

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    No need for a new buff type, the solution is simple, elegant, and not my idea:

    Change divine might back to sacred
    Change Sacred Defense stance from sacred to morale

    Done and done. The Sacred Defense stance prevents rage (morale bonus) anyway, so no harm no foul. Now all pally enhancements stack with each other and with gear.

  7. #7
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    Varg says it won't happen anytime soon and that the changes were based on player feedback:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5066920

  8. #8
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDog77 View Post
    Now you are talking about an increase of +3 (or 4.5) to damage, instead of +8.
    32 charisma is the number I will be looking to hit from a base 14 with the new gear. That is +4 twf, +6 thf damage (after subtracting the +3 insightful strength item). Base 14 plus a +4 tome right now can get a +6 damage boost. If you start from a base 16 charisma, the number you need with a +4 tome to get the top tier Divine Might currently, the numbers get a little further apart.

    What makes the DPS a little harder to calculate is that the strength bonus may give Paladins and Paladin splashed characters a viable stunning blow DC, which means extra damage on those hits.

    Quote Originally Posted by BDog77 View Post
    Also, with the increase of the level cap to (eventually) 30, I'm sure we will be seeing insightful strength +5 items, at least.
    There is a lot of speculation going on here. They are about to raise the level cap to 28, and insight bonus gear isn't being raised or even included in the new gear. It is a bit much to assume that insight bonuses will eventually completely cancel out Divine Might. I'm not saying it definitely wont happen, but it makes more sense to talk about things actually are happening.

    That being said, I would prefer Divine Might was not an insight bonus. I can't think of morale bonuses off the top of my head that Divine Might would conflict with, so I like Ellis' plan until someone points out something that I have forgotten.

  9. #9
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    Yeah, I like what that poster said about Turbine passing the buck. I'm sure no one suggested that DM shouldn't stack with items, just that it should stack with defender stance. Mostly what I'm talking about here is thematically, though. Whatever it is, it shouldn't be the type of bonus that anybody in game can get. If that doesn't make sense to people, I really don't know what more I can say.

    Edit: Oh, that poster was Ellis, lol. Great point, man, appreciate the help!
    Last edited by BDog77; 08-15-2013 at 03:31 PM.

  10. #10
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    Just switch it to a Psionic bonus and you're good. Sure then it'll interfere with Power surge from Fighters, but at least it's only that one thing that involves 1 kind of build.
    That's a better option. It's less important how it affects munchkin splashes than those who have pally as a primary class.

  11. #11
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    Varg says it won't happen anytime soon and that the changes were based on player feedback:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5066920
    Alright, fess up...who is the pally idiot who provided this as feedback?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    Alright, fess up...who is the pally idiot who provided this as feedback?
    Good question. I couldn't find anything on the forums. Maybe it was survey's - but I think if it was that overwhelming then we would have seen a thread at least. Although saying it was from "player feedback" - albeit feedback no one can see, is a convenient excuse if you don't want to fess up to the true explanation. Maybe it was just one player who said something somewhere. That wouldn't surprise me at all.

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  14. #14
    Community Member Psiandron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    That's a better option. It's less important how it affects munchkin splashes than those who have pally as a primary class.
    Here Here!!

    That was exactly my thought.

    As to the OP, I have to stand in favor of a change being made. Pally Dps is hard enough to come by. I really don't see that changing the DM bonus to psionic or, as EllisDee suggested, switching it back to sacred is going to make Pallys OP.

    I know that the current slew of enhancements is locked down. The final version is on Lammania now. But, that doesn't mean that the dev's can't start on some modifications now.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    I'd love to read some of that feedback.
    You and me both.

  16. #16
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    What you all have done to DM is a slap in the face to pure paladins. Who ever provided this "feedback" was either trolling you all or just plain brain damaged.
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  17. #17
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    My guess is that they misinterpreted the feedback.

    Plenty of players have asked for:

    Longer duration
    Less strict reliance on starting CHA
    STR bonus instead of damage bonus (to make THF and TWF impact more in line with each other)

    And they did just that. The problem was the implementation. By making it (a) non-stacking, and (b) requiring very high CHA to come close to the old damage bonus, it ended up actually hurting DM as an ability for most Pally builds. If instead of just reading feedback, more devs also played paladins, I think the solution would have been a different one.

    The same goes for changes to cleric, fvs, and some other classes. The lack of appreciation for the in-game implications of recent changes smacks of a lack of first-hand understanding of what it's like to play certain classes, and what players really enjoy about them.

  18. #18
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99
    Varg says it won't happen anytime soon and that the changes were based on player feedback:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5066920
    I'd love to read some of that feedback.
    Probably easy to imagine. Point however is, what people say, and others interpret is not always what they really want.

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  19. #19
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justagame View Post
    My guess is that they misinterpreted the feedback.

    Plenty of players have asked for:

    Longer duration
    Less strict reliance on starting CHA
    STR bonus instead of damage bonus (to make THF and TWF impact more in line with each other)

    And they did just that...
    Exactly this.

    Independent of the stacking nature, it might thematically probably even more in line to make it depended on caster level, as others suggested in Divine Might should be a tier4 enhancement, instead of CHA at all. Because if you got to level 20 as a Paladin without breaking your oath, you must have a damn good connection to your deity.
    * We have collectable bags, hell even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
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  20. #20
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    Varg says it won't happen anytime soon and that the changes were based on player feedback:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5066920
    What?!?!! Who the heck would have suggested that? Whoever did, obviously did not understand game mechanics. Paladins are DPS starved. There is no reason to lower their already low DPS. Why would the developers think that Paladin DPS is too high, and needed to be nerfed?

    Developers, please fix this! Divine Might should stack with all other Paladin DPS bonuses.
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