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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Feather, thanks for staying in touch on this. I think I added this part during/after your last reply, so I'll ask again:

    Is there a master list we can referance of "(X) property should apply (Y)" to the item/weapons "+ total" for the purpose of accurate bug reporting?
    It won't cover everything like Paralyzing/Disruption that we can assume are +4 I think, but apart from that they're the same as the Cannith Crafted shards, you can look them all up on the crafting device there.

    Others we can sort of deduce from the AH, find an item, look at it's total enhancement level and deduct the bits we know. So on live right now Incinerating is +6, because a +6 Incinerating Dagger is showing as +12. Maybe that's getting dropped to +5 with the update? We'll see on Monday I suppose.

    The best solution would be to simply add all of these into the Cannith crafting recipes for the next patch so we can see and make them all

  2. #42

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    Will Turbine consider a "stay of execution" or a "pardon" for bound random drop items, such as the BtA items that drop in the Sharn Syndicate chain?

    Since the new expansion pack "named" loot is all effectively "random drop items," will they, too, be governed by a similar sort of sliding scale algorithm for their MLs?

    BTW, this is bad. Taking away prized twink items that players have worked so hard for will be met with resistance and negative consequences. I hope that you all have committed to this course of action after considering those consequences.

  3. #43
    Community Member Veriden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Not at all.



    Nope. Problem is handwrap related, though. Will be detailed below.




    You're entirely correct. The problem here is that really old handwraps have their own versions of their weapon effects that put bonuses onto the player, because that's how handwraps had to work way back when- they modified the player's attacks, rather than the player making attacks that hit with the handwraps.

    Looks like I missed the Special Old Handwrap versions of Banishing, Smiting, and Disruption when I was lowering the value of those mutations. I can fix those down a notch for the first patch after the expansion launches.

    Race Restrictions on items should still be lowering the item's level as if the item was +1 lower Total Enhancement Bonus. It was probably just overlooked- should be an easy fix for patch.
    Thanks for helping us catch an issue with those two effects!

    exactly what I was wanting to know, thanks.

    I was thinking the icyburst / shocking burst/ pure good handwraps should've stayed ~min lvl 14
    5 enhancement
    2 shocking burst
    1 pure good

    Those handwraps are my primary wraps in giant hold since few things have many elemental resistances other than gnolls, fiendish trolls, and fire giants.
    Last edited by Veriden; 08-13-2013 at 07:57 PM.

  4. #44
    Time Bandit & Hero SirShen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veriden View Post
    exactly what I was wanting to know, thanks.

    I was thinking the icyburst / shocking burst/ pure good handwraps should've stayed ~min lvl 14
    5 enhancement
    2 shocking burst
    1 pure good

    Those handwraps are my primary wraps in giant hold since few things have many elemental resistances other than gnolls, fiendish trolls, and fire giants.
    because those handwrap have the icy burst on them go up 4 levels (this is a bug but they are not going to fix it) iv moaned till my hands bleed. See the posts https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5056515 if you dont have Festival in front of it will go up 2 levels for frost and 4 levels for burst.

    It also looks like now all items are the same, even quest reward items and quest arc items are now the same as chest loot (Unless the are a named item), am i the only one to think this is wrong? +2 str gloves that are bound to account as a reward from The Sharn Syndicate are level 3 you can also get +2 str gloves from a chest that is also level 3 and not bound. When this goes live there will be alot more forum posts.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirShen View Post
    It also looks like now all items are the same, even quest reward items and quest arc items are now the same as chest loot (Unless the are a named item), am i the only one to think this is wrong? +2 str gloves that are bound to account as a reward from The Sharn Syndicate are level 3 you can also get +2 str gloves from a chest that is also level 3 and not bound. When this goes live there will be alot more forum posts.
    This is what I've been sitting pondering.

    If all ML is auto-calculated now, then they need to add more -ML effects to allow them to create quest rewards that are different from just standard auto-gen loot.

    Someone asked elsewhere whether this affects the Unsuppressed Ioun Stones that we currently enjoy at ML 5. I'm hoping these count as named items and are excluded from this recalc, or you're going to get a lot of people (myself included) in tears come Monday. Vibrant Purple Archmagi (+8) with Spell Penetration IX (+6) to be ML 23 anyone?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    This is what I've been sitting pondering.

    If all ML is auto-calculated now, then they need to add more -ML effects to allow them to create quest rewards that are different from just standard auto-gen loot.

    Someone asked elsewhere whether this affects the Unsuppressed Ioun Stones that we currently enjoy at ML 5. I'm hoping these count as named items and are excluded from this recalc, or you're going to get a lot of people (myself included) in tears come Monday. Vibrant Purple Archmagi (+8) with Spell Penetration IX (+6) to be ML 23 anyone?
    That's a good question.

    On the one hand some Ioun Stones have unique effects (PLIS for example) and those should be fairly easy to exempt from the automation process and set a seperate level. On the other hand many don't have unique effects, some have effects like Protection +5 and Archmagi which can be found on many other items and those could be affected by the automation process.

    If they thought it through before hand then they might have been exempted already, but the cynic in me says "This is Turbine we're talking about".

    I suspect that most people when testing things out on Lamm will have done what I did, copied over a max level char, or copied over a char and used the Guide to max it so they could test the Enhancements properly. That being the case it's entirely possible that Ioun Stones were affected but nobody noticed because they were high enough level to use them with a higher ML and so didn't show up as red and were easily missed.

  7. #47
    Time Bandit & Hero SirShen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    This is what I've been sitting pondering.

    If all ML is auto-calculated now, then they need to add more -ML effects to allow them to create quest rewards that are different from just standard auto-gen loot.

    Someone asked elsewhere whether this affects the Unsuppressed Ioun Stones that we currently enjoy at ML 5. I'm hoping these count as named items and are excluded from this recalc, or you're going to get a lot of people (myself included) in tears come Monday. Vibrant Purple Archmagi (+8) with Spell Penetration IX (+6) to be ML 23 anyone?
    I think they are named items so shouldnt be effected, will have to look on next beta but i still think it stupid that i can now loot better items from chests then quest rewards/arc rewards unless they are a named item.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Someone asked elsewhere whether this affects the Unsuppressed Ioun Stones that we currently enjoy at ML 5. I'm hoping these count as named items and are excluded from this recalc, or you're going to get a lot of people (myself included) in tears come Monday.
    The ML on VPIS I had on a character copied to Lamannia did not change.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by hit_fido View Post
    The ML on VPIS I had on a character copied to Lamannia did not change.
    Thanks for the confirmation on this. Good to know.

    It's just a shame that we as players cannot simply assume that something will work as intended when Turbine makes changes and have to rely on other players testing for confirmation.

  10. #50

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    I'm surprised to see so much confusion on this, so I thought I'd step in and nip it in the bud.

    As said several times, named items do not automatically calculate their level.

    A "Vibrant Purple Ioun Stone" is not a randomly generated item. Neither are Greensteel accessories or weapons. Those are what we call "Named" items.


    Here's the difference between a Named item and a Random item:

    Named items are items that were made by one of DDO's designers, with specific mutations (magical effects) placed on it, or as part of a system where a specific set of effects can be on it. Data on this item, such as its required level to equip, it's name, description, and statistics were all set manually by a designer.

    Random items consist of a "blank" base item (such as "Longsword" or "Helmet") produced by a chest or quest reward list, which the game then "mutates" by adding a 'Prefix' effect, a 'Suffix' effect, or both. That produces the final item.

    There are only two exceptions to this.
    Behind the scenes, Rune Arms and Cannith Challenge items are also tagged as "Random", not "Named". This is to make them compatible with Cannith Crafting, which is designed not to work on "Named" items.

    Like other Craftable items, Rune Arms and Cannith Challenge items have already been exhibiting a behavior where they modify their level based on the effects that are crafted on them.

  11. #51
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    There are only two exceptions to this.
    Behind the scenes, Rune Arms and Cannith Challenge items are also tagged as "Random", not "Named". This is to make them compatible with Cannith Crafting, which is designed not to work on "Named" items.

    Like other Craftable items, Rune Arms and Cannith Challenge items have already been exhibiting a behavior where they modify their level based on the effects that are crafted on them.
    If the cannith challenge items go all wonky on us (different than live) with their minimum levels, is it WAI, a known issue, or should we bug report it?
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  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    If the cannith challenge items go all wonky on us (different than live) with their minimum levels, is it WAI, a known issue, or should we bug report it?
    Bug report any oddness you see with them, please.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    I'm surprised to see so much confusion on this, so I thought I'd step in and nip it in the bud.

    As said several times, named items do not automatically calculate their level.

    A "Vibrant Purple Ioun Stone" is not a randomly generated item. Neither are Greensteel accessories or weapons. Those are what we call "Named" items.


    Here's the difference between a Named item and a Random item:

    Named items are items that were made by one of DDO's designers, with specific mutations (magical effects) placed on it, or as part of a system where a specific set of effects can be on it. Data on this item, such as its required level to equip, it's name, description, and statistics were all set manually by a designer.

    Random items consist of a "blank" base item (such as "Longsword" or "Helmet") produced by a chest or quest reward list, which the game then "mutates" by adding a 'Prefix' effect, a 'Suffix' effect, or both. That produces the final item.

    There are only two exceptions to this.
    Behind the scenes, Rune Arms and Cannith Challenge items are also tagged as "Random", not "Named". This is to make them compatible with Cannith Crafting, which is designed not to work on "Named" items.

    Like other Craftable items, Rune Arms and Cannith Challenge items have already been exhibiting a behavior where they modify their level based on the effects that are crafted on them.
    Considering how many "Named" items have "Random" properties on them now, I'm sure you understand how people could be a bit confused.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    I'm surprised to see so much confusion on this, so I thought I'd step in and nip it in the bud.

    As said several times, named items do not automatically calculate their level.

    A "Vibrant Purple Ioun Stone" is not a randomly generated item. Neither are Greensteel accessories or weapons. Those are what we call "Named" items.


    Here's the difference between a Named item and a Random item:

    Named items are items that were made by one of DDO's designers, with specific mutations (magical effects) placed on it, or as part of a system where a specific set of effects can be on it. Data on this item, such as its required level to equip, it's name, description, and statistics were all set manually by a designer.

    Random items consist of a "blank" base item (such as "Longsword" or "Helmet") produced by a chest or quest reward list, which the game then "mutates" by adding a 'Prefix' effect, a 'Suffix' effect, or both. That produces the final item.

    There are only two exceptions to this.
    Behind the scenes, Rune Arms and Cannith Challenge items are also tagged as "Random", not "Named". This is to make them compatible with Cannith Crafting, which is designed not to work on "Named" items.

    Like other Craftable items, Rune Arms and Cannith Challenge items have already been exhibiting a behavior where they modify their level based on the effects that are crafted on them.
    Noted for posterity.

    So Thaumaturgy staffs are randomly generated, correct?

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrancisP.Fancypants View Post
    Noted for posterity.

    So Thaumaturgy staffs are randomly generated, correct?
    For these purposes, no. Their levels won't be changing.

    Their total enhancement values are wonky and all over the place due to issues with how they're set up, so old Thaumaturgy staves aren't compatible with item value progression.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    There are only two exceptions to this.
    Behind the scenes, Rune Arms and Cannith Challenge items are also tagged as "Random", not "Named". This is to make them compatible with Cannith Crafting, which is designed not to work on "Named" items.

    Like other Craftable items, Rune Arms and Cannith Challenge items have already been exhibiting a behavior where they modify their level based on the effects that are crafted on them.
    Over a year ago, YOU specifically said that Risia crafting only works on Random items. At the time, that excluded Cannith Crafted items because they were NAMED items. Does this now mean our Cannith Crafted items can now get Icy Burst?
    Last edited by oradafu; 08-14-2013 at 12:36 PM.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    There are only two exceptions to this.
    Behind the scenes, Rune Arms and Cannith Challenge items are also tagged as "Random", not "Named". This is to make them compatible with Cannith Crafting, which is designed not to work on "Named" items.

    Like other Craftable items, Rune Arms and Cannith Challenge items have already been exhibiting a behavior where they modify their level based on the effects that are crafted on them.
    So the two exceptions to the Named versus Random rule are:
    1. Rune Arms (actually random)
    2. Cannith Challenge Items (actually random)
    3. Thaumaturgy Quarterstaffs (actually named)

    Would you like to explain to us again the difference between Named and Random?

    Did I mention that we're a tough sarcastic audience?

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    Over a year ago, YOU specifically said that Risia crafting only works on Random items.
    This is still true.

    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    At the time, that excluded Cannith Crafted items because they were NAMED items.
    This is untrue. Crafting does not turn a random item into a named item. "Random" or "Named" is a property of the base item itself.
    Risia crafting excludes Cannith Crafted items because it also excludes items marked as "Craftable".


    Glad I could help clear that up, though!
    You can also check here for some assistance with this type of question:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deductive_fallacy

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    So the two exceptions to the Named/Random rule are:
    1. Rune Arms
    2. Cannith Challenge Items
    3. Thaumaturgy Quarterstaffs

    Would you like to explain to us again the difference between Named and Random?

    Did I mention that we're a tough sarcastic audience?
    No, the two exceptions I originally listed when detailing what is random or named were correct.

    There's a point where I need to decide it's best to give you guys less detail because it only serves to muddy the waters.

    Since you're interested though, I'll happily pick nits with you!
    Thaumaturgy quarterstaves are random items, just not for the purposes of the scripting that gets items to automatically set their levels appropriately to their total enhancement value.

    As I detailed in my earlier post, I was listing the two exceptions to what would logically be thought of as named items but are actually random. Those are Rune Arms and Cannith Challenge items.

    I did not mention Thaumaturgy staves because they would be expected to be Random items, and they are indeed Random items.

    If I was listing items that were Random but were exempted from the scripting that automatically sets item level, then that list would contain Thaumaturgy staves.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    This is still true.



    This is untrue. Crafting does not turn a random item into a named item. "Random" or "Named" is a property of the base item itself.
    Risia crafting excludes Cannith Crafted items because it also excludes items marked as "Craftable".


    Glad I could help clear that up, though!
    You can also check here for some assistance with this type of question:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deductive_fallacy
    This new line about items be Craftable as something separate from Random and Named is new. You didn't bring this up a year ago. You just stated that NAMED items can't recieve Risia Crafting. If you stated this stuff about Craftable items being a separate category from both Named and Random back then, I won't have brought up the freaking question.
    Last edited by Cordovan; 08-16-2013 at 01:25 PM.

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