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  1. #1
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    Default Dev question: Is Masterful Craftsmanship on Tier Three Challenge Gear WAI?

    The reason I ask is that I copied a character over to Lamm to test the latest iteration of the Enhancements (Still hate it, but that's a different topic) and discovered that my Monk's Tier Three Level 16 Challenge Gear which on Live was ML 14 due to Masterful Craftsmanship was now ML 16, even with Masterful Craftsmanship on it.

    Is this a bug that may get fixed in a few years, or is it WAI?

    I can tell you now that if it is WAI then I am less than amused because the only reason I made it Tier Three in the first place was because of Masterful Craftsmanship. Otherwise I would have left it at Tier Two and passed it to another character when it was out-levelled.
    Last edited by Archangel_666; 08-13-2013 at 09:07 AM.

  2. #2

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    It was pointed out to me that it's possible that maybe if you re-apply MC it'll drop back down. I'm skeptical, but I never got around to trying it so I can't say either way.

  3. #3
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    I did try re-applying and it didn't drop below 16.

    Totally agree with OP that the only point of taking the gear to tier 3 is to drop its ML.
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  4. #4
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    Meh. That is an annoying change, for sure
    It's definitely an N-word.

  5. #5
    Community Member -Zephyr-'s Avatar
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    I always thought that it wasn't WAI.
    Thing is, with the expansion, all items now calculate their own ML dynamically, even random items (which also means the items with Festival Frost and other such buffs are getting a ML bump). I wouldn't be surprised if it means your named item stays the same ML even if you apply Masterful Craftsmanship on it, because then it re-calculates its ML... And since the ML of a named item isn't supposed to change, it takes the "normal" ML 16.
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Zephyr- View Post
    I always thought that it wasn't WAI.
    Thing is, with the expansion, all items now calculate their own ML dynamically, even random items (which also means the items with Festival Frost and other such buffs are getting a ML bump). I wouldn't be surprised if it means your named item stays the same ML even if you apply Masterful Craftsmanship on it, because then it re-calculates its ML... And since the ML of a named item isn't supposed to change, it takes the "normal" ML 16.
    I'd bet money this is NOT the case because that would be a massive buff to challenge gear, and no way do devs want to make challenges good again. (ie: You'd be able to craft +3 worth of stuff on them without an ML increase.) Pretty sure they just added an AML to them.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    (ie: You'd be able to craft +3 worth of stuff on them without an ML increase.)
    I wouldn't worry about that Ellis, there's actually nothing worth crafting at +3. The only thing that was half-way worth considering was 1% Dodge and they've changed Dodge to be non-stacking so that's pointless now too.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Zephyr- View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if it means your named item stays the same ML even if you apply Masterful Craftsmanship on it, because then it re-calculates its ML... And since the ML of a named item isn't supposed to change, it takes the "normal" ML 16.
    That is a reasonable explanation for why it's happening, but if that is true then this will also affect a large number of rune arms as well. Anyone check their rune arms?

  9. #9
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    I've read in the past the Devs saying that Crafting on named items were challenging and do not expect to get more of it. Just like the new rune arms, hallmark of House C's artificers, have augments instead of Cannith Crafting.

    I expect that they'll go live with the broken Lores on all the items, and maybe in Patch 1 or 2 they'll fix the lores and change the craftability to augment slots.

    Overall, I'd be more disappointed by that than happy, though I know a few people would be happier with augment slots.


    Oh, and Rock Boots are correct. Bracers of Wind have Fire Lore. :| I've only seen these broken on the ML 16 and 20 variants. The ML 12s are still correct.

  10. #10
    Community Member Mindos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Zephyr- View Post
    I always thought that it wasn't WAI.
    Thing is, with the expansion, all items now calculate their own ML dynamically, even random items (which also means the items with Festival Frost and other such buffs are getting a ML bump). I wouldn't be surprised if it means your named item stays the same ML even if you apply Masterful Craftsmanship on it, because then it re-calculates its ML... And since the ML of a named item isn't supposed to change, it takes the "normal" ML 16.
    Are we sure this isn't the ML display bug? IE, sometimes the game displays the wrong ML, but logging in and out corrects the issue?

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindos View Post
    Are we sure this isn't the ML display bug? IE, sometimes the game displays the wrong ML, but logging in and out corrects the issue?
    I wasn't able to equip them; it said I was not high enough level.

  12. #12
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    I took a look at my epic frozen tunic on live. The description heading says that it is superior ice lore, but the text says it is fire lore. If I remember right, the text was known to be wrong -it did give ice lore like it was supposed to. But now I am beginning to doubt that assumption.

    Anyway, going back with a fine tooth comb and fixing the cannith challenge item descriptions, effects and MLs seems like a good candidate for a future patch.

  13. #13
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Zephyr- View Post
    I always thought that it wasn't WAI.
    Thing is, with the expansion, all items now calculate their own ML dynamically, even random items (which also means the items with Festival Frost and other such buffs are getting a ML bump). I wouldn't be surprised if it means your named item stays the same ML even if you apply Masterful Craftsmanship on it, because then it re-calculates its ML... And since the ML of a named item isn't supposed to change, it takes the "normal" ML 16.
    Festival frost is not getting a minimum level bump.

    what is getting a minimum level bump is any its that had the old festival effects on them that did not say (festival)

    so if you have a icy burst weapon from back in 2010 that you might be getting a Minimum level bump if you have any weapons from the more recent festivals then you will see no change.

    I have both

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    The reason I ask is that I copied a character over to Lamm to test the latest iteration of the Enhancements (Still hate it, but that's a different topic) and discovered that my Monk's Tier Three Level 16 Challenge Gear which on Live was ML 14 due to Masterful Craftsmanship was now ML 16, even with Masterful Craftsmanship on it.

    Is this a bug that may get fixed in a few years, or is it WAI?

    I can tell you now that if it is WAI then I am less than amused because the only reason I made it Tier Three in the first place was because of Masterful Craftsmanship. Otherwise I would have left it at Tier Two and passed it to another character when it was out-levelled.
    Hmmmm, sure glad this came to light before I spent this week doing challenges to upgrade a few more items.

    Not sure how many more times they can destroy the challenge pack, and still expect it to sell - especially after that massive exp drop.

    Devs: while answering the original question, would you mind telling us just why you hate the challenges so much? And about that massive exp drop.... weren't you guys going to fix that?

    Still can't in good conscience ever recommend ANYONE ever buy challenges after that; Turbine is losing money, everyone knows it but you guys

    The idea behind commerce is for you to create a product I want to buy, remember... Right now you've created a product that anyone can play once a day for free, that has garbage experience, and you now seem to be breaking the items in fun and wonderful ways! There is absolutely no reason for any person to ever buy challenges, ever.

    Which is a shame; I used to like it when I only have 30 minutes to play but I could join a challenge and know it'd be done by that time. Those days are long past, I guess.. now it's just the days of 'either stare at empty lfm list, or create lfms that won't fill during certain parts of the day and just solo everything'.

    Sigh. Nice game we had here once.

    Editted to add: And on last run of lam, all the items had the WRONG EFFECTS on them. Please ensure that you FIX these items before going live next week.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by eris2323 View Post
    Editted to add: And on last run of lam, all the items had the WRONG EFFECTS on them. Please ensure that you FIX these items before going live next week.
    What kind of wrong effects? There is still a window in which I use my Frozen Tunic. Has that item been changed?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie_Seaglen View Post
    What kind of wrong effects? There is still a window in which I use my Frozen Tunic. Has that item been changed?
    I only had a couple of the items on my characters, but for instance, the fire cloak had fire spellpower, and yet cold critical improvements... those kind of things, they mixed up the elements when they re-did their crits in light of their new 'oh we changed our minds, more crits is good' idea.

  17. #17
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    Frozen Tunic now has +Lightning Lore (instead of Frost Lore)

    Cloak of Flames has +Cold Lore (instead of Fire Lore)

    etc etc; assumedly Rock Boots and Bracers of Wind also point to one of the other 4 items with their crit chance.

    All of the rest of the effects save for "+to element spell crit chance" are/were as they appear on live (though glaciation's wording on the Frozen Tunic, and combustion's wording on the Cloak of Flames are changed to something that says the same thing in different words, but they still provide the same spell power for the correct element).

    EDIT: Yarg, what Eris said!
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    Frozen Tunic now has +Lightning Lore (instead of Frost Lore)

    Cloak of Flames has +Cold Lore (instead of Fire Lore)

    etc etc; assumedly Rock Boots and Bracers of Wind also point to one of the other 4 items with their crit chance.
    Wow. I mean, it seems like you would have to go out of your way to actually mess up that bad.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie_Seaglen View Post
    Wow. I mean, it seems like you would have to go out of your way to actually mess up that bad.
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