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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindos View Post
    Are we sure this isn't the ML display bug? IE, sometimes the game displays the wrong ML, but logging in and out corrects the issue?
    I wasn't able to equip them; it said I was not high enough level.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    I might agree with you if adding such did not increase the ML, since they do I disagree. While adding say Melee Alacrity to an item is nice, it bumps up the ML required to use it so much that if you can use it you can already use the next tier of gear.
    I was responding to the following theory:

    Quote Originally Posted by -Zephyr- View Post
    I always thought that it wasn't WAI.
    Thing is, with the expansion, all items now calculate their own ML dynamically, even random items (which also means the items with Festival Frost and other such buffs are getting a ML bump). I wouldn't be surprised if it means your named item stays the same ML even if you apply Masterful Craftsmanship on it, because then it re-calculates its ML... And since the ML of a named item isn't supposed to change, it takes the "normal" ML 16.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    So for clarity, we are supposed to be able to use Masterful Craftsmanship and it is supposed to reduce the Minimum Level by two?
    I would just bug report this if you haven't already, and urge everyone else to do the same. No intentional changes implies that masterful craftsmanship not working as before isn't intentional, so more bug reports can only help get it prioritized for review and correction.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by hit_fido View Post
    I would just bug report this if you haven't already, and urge everyone else to do the same. No intentional changes implies that masterful craftsmanship not working as before isn't intentional, so more bug reports can only help get it prioritized for review and correction.
    I would but...

    Submit a Bug



    We apologize for the inconvenience, but at this time the in-game bug reporting tool is down.

    To submit a bug please visit http://ddobugs.turbine.com?task=ticket
    I laughed. Bug Report is bugged. What a surprise...

  5. #25
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    I bug reported this back in Closed Beta Week 1.
    I've brought it up in every single DevChat I attended. (9 of them)

    Is it REALLY a bug reporting system?

    Feels like you're making it a Bug Popularity Contest or Bug Nagging system.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    I bug reported this back in Closed Beta Week 1.
    I've brought it up in every single DevChat I attended. (9 of them)

    Is it REALLY a bug reporting system?

    Feels like you're making it a Bug Popularity Contest or Bug Nagging system.
    It may not actually work this way but it stands to reason the more duplicate bug reports they see from different players, the more priority they'd give to looking into the issue.

    This is the bug reporting tool I've used, seems to be working (for me), ymmv:

    http://ddobugs.turbine.com/ics/suppo...c&deptID=24037

  7. #27
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    I took a look at my epic frozen tunic on live. The description heading says that it is superior ice lore, but the text says it is fire lore. If I remember right, the text was known to be wrong -it did give ice lore like it was supposed to. But now I am beginning to doubt that assumption.

    Anyway, going back with a fine tooth comb and fixing the cannith challenge item descriptions, effects and MLs seems like a good candidate for a future patch.

  8. #28

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    Well, I went ahead and submitted it anyway. Maybe if enough of us report the issue it will get kicked up the priority list.

  9. #29
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Zephyr- View Post
    I always thought that it wasn't WAI.
    Thing is, with the expansion, all items now calculate their own ML dynamically, even random items (which also means the items with Festival Frost and other such buffs are getting a ML bump). I wouldn't be surprised if it means your named item stays the same ML even if you apply Masterful Craftsmanship on it, because then it re-calculates its ML... And since the ML of a named item isn't supposed to change, it takes the "normal" ML 16.
    Festival frost is not getting a minimum level bump.

    what is getting a minimum level bump is any its that had the old festival effects on them that did not say (festival)

    so if you have a icy burst weapon from back in 2010 that you might be getting a Minimum level bump if you have any weapons from the more recent festivals then you will see no change.

    I have both

  10. #30
    Community Member Veriden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    We've made no intentional changes to the Cannith Challenge items, nor do we intend to change them. Any odd or inconsistent behavior you're seeing with them are probably bugs- please submit bug reports regarding them so that we can get them fixed as soon as is possible. Thanks.
    So then, how about this, is this intentional or a bug?

    On live now these handwraps shown are current:




    but on lam with how the new min level calculations work each set of hand wraps which each over 2 years old now (save for the icy, shocking, pure good which I pulled back in jan of '10 and enhanced with the next risia games)




    same exact wraps, now in need of scrapping due to lack of usefulness b/c I have better wraps at their new levels.

  11. #31

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    On randomly generated weapons, minimum level to equip the item is based on the item's Total Enhancement Value, which is the "plus number" in the top right corner of the item tooltip.

    Weapons, armor, docents, robes, outfits, and shields follow the following progression:
    +1 - Level 1
    +2 - Level 2
    +3 - Level 4
    +4 - Level 6
    +5 - Level 8
    +6 - Level 10
    +7 - Level 12
    +8 - Level 14
    +9 - Level 16
    +10 - Level 18
    +11 - Level 20
    +12 - Level 21
    +13 - Level 22
    +14 - Level 23
    +15 - Level 24
    +16 - Level 25
    +17 - Level 26
    +18 - Level 27
    +19 and higher - Level 28

    "Accessory" items (gloves, boots, cloak, rings and such) use the following progression:
    +1 - Level 1
    +2 - Level 3
    +3 - Level 5
    +4 - Level 7
    +5 - Level 9
    +6 - Level 11
    +7 - Level 13
    +8 - Level 15
    +9 - Level 17
    +10 - Level 19
    +11 - Level 20
    +12 - Level 21
    +13 - Level 22
    +14 - Level 23
    +15 - Level 24
    +16 - Level 25
    +17 - Level 26
    +18 - Level 27
    +19 and higher - Level 28

    Up to level 20, this is the same they have followed for many years on the Live servers, as well. Random items with levels that do not match their value are the result of data entry errors or other bugs.

    The difference now is that the game automatically handles item level on random equipment, and so these kinds of bugs automatically fix themselves, and cannot occur again in the future.

    As evidenced by the fact that only a few people have seen alterations in the level of their items, there are not many bugged items out there that are in this situation. If we could somehow track and exempt them, we would do so- however, this is a global change to how items in DDO function. These items have nothing unique about them that we can check or otherwise track in order to exempt them from how item level is now set.

    This goes both ways- some items that had too high of a level will correct themselves downwards.
    We also adjusted the values of some properties downwards. For example, Banishing, Vorpal, Smiting, and Disruption are now +4 instead of +5, which means that they contribute less to the minimum level required to equip the items they are on.

  12. #32
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veriden View Post
    So then, how about this, is this intentional or a bug?

    On live now these handwraps shown are current:




    but on lam with how the new min level calculations work each set of hand wraps which each over 2 years old now (save for the icy, shocking, pure good which I pulled back in jan of '10 and enhanced with the next risia games)




    same exact wraps, now in need of scrapping due to lack of usefulness b/c I have better wraps at their new levels.
    Well it looks like the 'old' banishing remained on that ML 20 handwraps and FoS added the 'new' banishing effect to it also for ML purposes. In other words +2 (enhancement) + 1 (Pure Good) +5 (old banishing) + 4 (new banishing) = +11 or an ML 20 item...

    Yes, basic checking of results would have shown something was messed up...which apparently is against Turbine policy.
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  13. #33
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Ignore above post, math does not add up
    Proud Recipient of At least 8 Negative Rep From NA Threads.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    We also adjusted the values of some properties downwards. For example, Banishing, Vorpal, Smiting, and Disruption are now +4 instead of +5, which means that they contribute less to the minimum level required to equip the items they are on.
    That doesn't add up in my head with the example quoted above.

    +2 Enhancement = +2
    Disruption = +4
    Holy = +2

    Racial Restriction = -2 ML

    So that item should have an enhancement level 8 which would make it ML 14, but the racial restriction would drop it to ML 12?
    But it's showing as an enhancement level 9? Where's the extra +1 coming from?

    Do the new Paragon/Epic Weapon attributes increase the enhancement level?
    Is the Racial Restriction no longer reducing the ML and will be ignored in the next update?

    Have I had one too many single malts or is there something obvious I'm missing?

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    On randomly generated weapons, minimum level to equip the item is based on the item's Total Enhancement Value, which is the "plus number" in the top right corner of the item tooltip.
    Will the eldritch rituals (bound & attuned, force dmg, resistance, adamantine etc) be effecting the "+ value" of items, and if so by how much?

    Edit:
    Is there a master list we can referance of "(X) property should apply (Y)" to the item/weapons "+ total" for the purpose of accurate bug reporting?
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 08-13-2013 at 06:44 PM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  16. #36
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    It looks to me like the new paragon / epic weapon flag is adding to the enhancement bonus and I would bet thats because these are handwraps.

    Welcome to more handwraps bugs!

    Its also likely that with the removal of race restricted items, it broke the effect on old items. At least, again, on handwraps.
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  17. #37
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    Is greensteel affected?

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Will the eldritch rituals (bound & attuned, force dmg, resistance, adamantine etc) be effecting the "+ value" of items, and if so by how much?
    Not at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZzpxpzZ View Post
    It looks to me like the new paragon / epic weapon flag is adding to the enhancement bonus and I would be thats because these are handwraps.
    Nope. Problem is handwrap related, though. Will be detailed below.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    That doesn't add up in my head with the example quoted above.

    +2 Enhancement = +2
    Disruption = +4
    Holy = +2

    Racial Restriction = -2 ML

    So that item should have an enhancement level 8 which would make it ML 14, but the racial restriction would drop it to ML 12?
    But it's showing as an enhancement level 9? Where's the extra +1 coming from?

    Is the Racial Restriction no longer reducing the ML and will be ignored in the next update?

    Have I had one too many single malts or is there something obvious I'm missing?
    You're entirely correct. The problem here is that really old handwraps have their own versions of their weapon effects that put bonuses onto the player, because that's how handwraps had to work way back when- they modified the player's attacks, rather than the player making attacks that hit with the handwraps.

    Looks like I missed the Special Old Handwrap versions of Banishing, Smiting, and Disruption when I was lowering the value of those mutations. I can fix those down a notch for the first patch after the expansion launches.

    Race Restrictions on items should still be lowering the item's level as if the item was +1 lower Total Enhancement Bonus. It was probably just overlooked- should be an easy fix for patch.
    Thanks for helping us catch an issue with those two effects!

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie_Seaglen View Post
    Is greensteel affected?
    This is a damned good question.

    If greensteel suddenly becomes ML 20 or the like .... well ...... let's just say that would be "un-good" for everyone involved.


  20. #40
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    Feather, thanks for staying in touch on this. I think I added this part during/after your last reply, so I'll ask again:

    Is there a master list we can referance of "(X) property should apply (Y)" to the item/weapons "+ total" for the purpose of accurate bug reporting?
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

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