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  1. #1
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    Default Raiding? When you can't commit to 2 hour sessions ahead of time?

    Just been thinking about raids...

    I've been reading a lot of messages about people complaining about there not being more raids.

    I've had serious trouble getting into raid groups ever since I started DDO and feel that's one area of the game I haven't experienced much yet - as well as the items generated from the raids.

    I find my playtimes vary, are off-peak and I cannot commit to the "scheduled ahead of time" raid groups that ever guild I join seem to rely upon.

    Does anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with this. or should I just assume that raiding will remain out of my reach and therefore the most cherished items and those that will generate shard income if not usable?

    Until that time, raiding will remain one of the areas of DDO not available to me, as well as the corresponding limit on access to those best-in-game items.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by My2Cents View Post
    Just been thinking about raids...

    I've been reading a lot of messages about people complaining about there not being more raids.

    I've had serious trouble getting into raid groups ever since I started DDO and feel that's one area of the game I haven't experienced much yet - as well as the items generated from the raids.

    I find my playtimes vary, are off-peak and I cannot commit to the "scheduled ahead of time" raid groups that ever guild I join seem to rely upon.

    Does anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with this. or should I just assume that raiding will remain out of my reach and therefore the most cherished items and those that will generate shard income if not usable?

    Until that time, raiding will remain one of the areas of DDO not available to me, as well as the corresponding limit on access to those best-in-game items.
    I see only 2 solutions.

    Faster groups (not for everyone)
    Raid during weekend?

    If a raid would last 20mins... then they'd call it a quest.
    Also not every raids so far are time consuming. Some are because of the location but I don't think they'll head that way anymore. FoT is both easy to get to and not time consuming... and it's the last one. Might be an exemple on the way they're heading.

    Good luck on finding a way to experiment raids, I think it's worth it.
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  3. #3
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    what raid takes two hours? Most are way under half that....maybe if you get a terrible group or you do it on the hardest difficulty.

    Even in my experience most of the raids form and complete in under two hours even the ones I put together for the ones hardly run anymore like TOD.

    I think what you could do is watch the raid lfm and when it hits a high enough number then hit it.......but be warned when im leading I often get several people hitting the lfm for the last 2-3 spots. And it can be slow with just one of two people then theres a mad rush once you get several people into the group.

    A lot also depends on server and play times, weekends are most likely your best bet though I notice a lot more raid lfms up during weekends.

  4. #4
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Theres not a raid in this game that takes anywhere near 2 hours on normal or hard.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  5. #5
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    On Ghallanda EH Citw takes 40- 60 mins with much waiting, no lead, and half folks levelling crappy destinies.
    35 mins in good group with few furies, focusing dps on nameds and not messing around at the start.

    EH FoT takes 20 - 40 mins with few mistakes, some deaths and melees in **** destinies swinging Balizardes on TO and stuff like that.
    10 - 15 mins in byoh, ranged heavy groups.

    Elite Shroud or Tod shortmanned in 30 - 50 mins.

    You don't need 2 hours. Just get bufffed before you click the lfm, and show up with appropriate weapon and destiny
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  6. #6
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    I would suggest starting with Fall of Truth on Epic Normal.

    That raid takes anywhere from 10-15 minutes on Normal. Try to get some electric absorb before you go in there - ring of the djinn, custom crafted ring, twisted energy sheath if you can. If not, don't worry about it. Just let the raid leader know you are new to it and don't have any electric absorb so you don't get stuck with a job that might be hard.

    I also find jeweled cloak/pale lavender ioun stone useful for that raid to keep the vulnerability curses away.

    Even though it's the highest level raid in the game, it is very friendly to players that are new to raids, especially on EN.

  7. #7
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    The advice about FoT and weekends best is very helpful. I have electric resist and a pale lav in bank.

    Clarify: 2 hours was maybe poetic license, I can hang in for 30-60 minutes, sometimes even a couple hours, I just can't preplan when that'll be so i can't "prearrange" guild runs and such. If raid lfms are frequent enough during weekends, I'll try then.

    Advice appreciated and more welcomed, I'd sure like to visit raids more.

    Ought to be a wiki page that gives "prep list" hints for raids (and quests) for that matter so we know how to prepare to make it easier to be accepted into groups. I -want- to be properly prepared.

  8. #8
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by My2Cents View Post
    The advice about FoT and weekends best is very helpful. I have electric resist and a pale lav in bank.

    Clarify: 2 hours was maybe poetic license, I can hang in for 30-60 minutes, sometimes even a couple hours, I just can't preplan when that'll be so i can't "prearrange" guild runs and such. If raid lfms are frequent enough during weekends, I'll try then.

    Advice appreciated and more welcomed, I'd sure like to visit raids more.

    Ought to be a wiki page that gives "prep list" hints for raids (and quests) for that matter so we know how to prepare to make it easier to be accepted into groups. I -want- to be properly prepared.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    On Ghallanda EH Citw takes 40- 60 mins with much waiting, no lead, and half folks levelling crappy destinies.
    35 mins in good group with few furies, focusing dps on nameds and not messing around at the start.

    EH FoT takes 20 - 40 mins with few mistakes, some deaths and melees in **** destinies swinging Balizardes on TO and stuff like that.
    10 - 15 mins in byoh, ranged heavy groups.

    Elite Shroud or Tod shortmanned in 30 - 50 mins.

    You don't need 2 hours. Just get bufffed before you click the lfm, and show up with appropriate weapon and destiny
    Most of the raid delays on Gland tend to be for group filling, not the actual running. I don't bother with the raid lfms unless I'm either planning on healing it, or see one is onboard already.

    EH Dragon can be done in <25m in a good group w/ someone who knows the raid. Lead by someone who doesn't, the time goes up dramatically. Nice thing about Dragon is the ability to have the group fill as your running the pre-raid.

    EH DQ even w/ the pre-raid (which you can do on casual if you choose) isn't long either.

  10. #10
    Community Member Alisonique's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by My2Cents View Post
    Just been thinking about raids...

    I've been reading a lot of messages about people complaining about there not being more raids.

    I've had serious trouble getting into raid groups ever since I started DDO and feel that's one area of the game I haven't experienced much yet - as well as the items generated from the raids.

    I find my playtimes vary, are off-peak and I cannot commit to the "scheduled ahead of time" raid groups that ever guild I join seem to rely upon.

    Does anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with this. or should I just assume that raiding will remain out of my reach and therefore the most cherished items and those that will generate shard income if not usable?

    Until that time, raiding will remain one of the areas of DDO not available to me, as well as the corresponding limit on access to those best-in-game items.
    Know this problem well, seems most folk on most worlds are in the USA, I'm in the UK, and usually there are a small number of guildies on-line when I am. I moved my characters over from Khyber to Ghallanda because I found that most of the time I was virtually on solo runs, and whilst I enjoy pugging there are a lot of streakers who want to play with other streakers.....

    Shame we cant cross server match and get us all able to play with anyone

    So it does make it difficult to experience all that ddo has to offer, even getting flagged can be a pain, never mind actually raiding.

    my 2d

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Theres not a raid in this game that takes anywhere near 2 hours on normal or hard.
    Fail VON pugs.

  12. #12
    The Hatchery Nibor's Avatar
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    Get flagged for FoT and CitW, and keep an eye on the LFM when you have an hour or so. You don't have to plan ahead, especially for your first time in the raid on EN, just find a group that's going and hop in, tell the leader it's your first time and hopefully they'll explain what's going on. Those two raids generally run often enough that you can find one running once in a while - maybe not every time you've got the free time, but mostly.

    Also, both of those raids are fairly leader-friendly, so once you've got some experience with how they run, you can actually lead it yourself without too much trouble. At that point, you can just log in, check the LFM, and if the raid you want isn't running, you can lead it, and it'll happen in your timeframe.

    So, no, you don't have to give up on raiding. You may find it hard to get into EH and EE groups without advance planning - those don't PUG nearly as often. However if you're willing to lead an EH group, you could probably get a PUG FoT EH without too much trouble. EH CitW is harder to PUG as a lot of people don't find the (minimal) increase in rewards worth the extra effort/resources/time to run it on EH instead of EN, so you'd probably need to at least line up the healers ahead of time.

    Anything aside from those 2 raids, though, and it's going to be pretty hit or miss on when there's an LFM up. On Sarlona, I'd guess at cap the next most run raid is ADQ, which is generally a cakewalk (haven't run with pugs but have shortmanned it plenty with my guild) and Shroud, which is just steamrolled by lvl 25 chars, and neither one is run all that often. I also see the occasional VON, and a smattering of the other raids, but not with any regularity. Those you would need a lot more luck to get into by chance when you just happen to be free.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    I think what you could do is watch the raid lfm and when it hits a high enough number then hit it.......but be warned when im leading I often get several people hitting the lfm for the last 2-3 spots. And it can be slow with just one of two people then theres a mad rush once you get several people into the group.
    Yes, once a raid reaches critical mass, it fills fast.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alisonique View Post
    Know this problem well, seems most folk on most worlds are in the USA, I'm in the UK, and usually there are a small number of guildies on-line when I am. I moved my characters over from Khyber to Ghallanda because I found that most of the time I was virtually on solo runs, and whilst I enjoy pugging there are a lot of streakers who want to play with other streakers.....

    Shame we cant cross server match and get us all able to play with anyone

    So it does make it difficult to experience all that ddo has to offer, even getting flagged can be a pain, never mind actually raiding.

    my 2d
    Flagging for CiTW in Demonweb or FoT in GH isn't usually problematic on Gland. Plenty of reasons for puggers to join up even if they've already flagged themselves. AH/ASAH loot, XP, relics, chain rewards.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormraiser View Post
    Yes, once a raid reaches critical mass, it fills fast.
    Critical mass is called one healer.

  16. #16
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by My2Cents View Post
    Ought to be a wiki page that gives "prep list" hints for raids (and quests) for that matter so we know how to prepare to make it easier to be accepted into groups. I -want- to be properly prepared.
    Something like this?

    http://ddowiki.com/page/What_should_...g_to_a_raid%3F

  17. #17
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrancisP.Fancypants View Post
    Fail VON pugs.
    This.

    Crappy groups with no direction can take well over an hour to do Von5. Then they fail at the pillars because they are too daft to comprehend the simple instructions of "Prep the Djinn, do NOT kill."

    For whatever reason, the majority of the random evon pugs I join are complete rubbish. It's such a simple raid if people can follow directions, but it's impossible if they can't.

  18. #18
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by My2Cents View Post
    The advice about FoT and weekends best is very helpful. I have electric resist and a pale lav in bank.

    Clarify: 2 hours was maybe poetic license, I can hang in for 30-60 minutes, sometimes even a couple hours, I just can't preplan when that'll be so i can't "prearrange" guild runs and such. If raid lfms are frequent enough during weekends, I'll try then.

    Advice appreciated and more welcomed, I'd sure like to visit raids more.

    Ought to be a wiki page that gives "prep list" hints for raids (and quests) for that matter so we know how to prepare to make it easier to be accepted into groups. I -want- to be properly prepared.

    Flag for FoT. Post a group if you need help getting flagged and run FoT. It is the best raid in the game in terms of fun and time. Loot is good (less so soon) but you need the Heroic Comm's. Even a bad run shouldn't take more than 30 minutes on EN unless it is a lag wipe.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

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  19. #19
    Community Member Spoonwelder's Avatar
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    What server are you on.....my guild runs a raid night on Mondays - 830PM -10PMish PST which may work for you if you are on Argo. We fit in 2 raids in that time slot (usually one quick one longer one). We are a friendly bunch and if I am asked I can give a verbose version of the raid instructions for people new(ish) to the raid.

    We run our VoN 5/6 (eN/eH) in about 30-40min and fill mostly from guild but usually have 1-2 spots we pug out.

    ADQ takes about an hour due to the running around time but we have had it down to 30-35min if we have our **** sorted really well.

    FOT we only ever bother to do eN as the main thing there now is comms and the chance of d2 isn't worth the added difficulty. FOT is a 20min with 10 of that being getting everyone there then listening to the narration.

    CITW - is longer - usually an hour all in with buffing, running, getting 12 etc....and then just running through the quest is a trudge and a half.....then if anyone makes a mistake in the end fight.....

    Anyway - if you are on Argo and want to get in a raid or two PM me here and I can save you a slot.
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  20. #20
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djl View Post
    This.

    Crappy groups with no direction can take well over an hour to do Von5. Then they fail at the pillars because they are too daft to comprehend the simple instructions of "Prep the Djinn, do NOT kill."

    For whatever reason, the majority of the random evon pugs I join are complete rubbish. It's such a simple raid if people can follow directions, but it's impossible if they can't.
    The solution to that in EH VON6 is to ask "Who can solo a base".

    Three people or more will usually say 'I can'. Assign them a base each, and get everyone else to buff for Velah while those three run off. If you have only one or two that can solo a base, assign four or five randoms to each other base and tell them "Attack nothing until told to, then kill everything".


    As for realistic completion times in PUGs for the raids that are run still:

    At-level heroic VON5-6: 60 min mediocre PUG
    At-level heroic Reaver: 15-20 min (the raid has a hard 25 min limit on it anyway)
    At level elite Shroud: 60 min, high chance of failure
    At level hard Shroud: 40 min, moderate chance of failure
    Epic hard VON5-6: 45-60 min mediocre PUG, can be done in 20-25 with solid leadership even if only two people know it
    Epic elite VON5-6: 60-75 min, moderate failure chance
    Epic DQ2: 3-15 min, EE fails often but it doesn't take long to get back into it
    Heroic Normal LOB (overlevel): 30 min
    Epic Normal LOB: 25 min (yes, this is actually easier than HN as mob stats are considerably lower)
    Epic Hard LOB: 35 min, slight failure chance
    Epic Normal Master Artificer: 30 min (again, this is the easiest difficulty, heroic normal is considerably harder)
    CITW Normal, 6 chests: 35-45 min
    CITW Hard, 6 chests: 45-75 min
    FoT Normal: 10 min
    FoT Hard: 25-30 min
    FoT Elite: 30-90 min (varies immensely with group; can actually be done in under 10 min). Very high failure chance.

    The only raid that requires a 2 hour or longer commitment is CITW elite. Whilst there are strategies to do it in under an hour, few people know them.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

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