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  1. #21
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    I got vorpaled by a Cacodemon in an Elite Purge the Fallen Shrine once, now that was ****ing awesome.

    The combat log rad something like "snick, snick and off with your head, you were killed by Cacodemons vorpal attack" these may not have been the exact words but it was something like that.

    Up until then I didn't realize that Cacodemons could vorpal, well I sure know now.
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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoasterHops View Post
    I got vorpaled by a Cacodemon in an Elite Purge the Fallen Shrine once, now that was ****ing awesome.

    The combat log rad something like "snick, snick and off with your head, you were killed by Cacodemons vorpal attack" these may not have been the exact words but it was something like that.

    Up until then I didn't realize that Cacodemons could vorpal, well I sure know now.
    Yep, exact same I way learned that, too. I also checked the log and saw the snick snack reference. Very cool.

  3. #23
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    What exactly is "careful", though? What can you really do about some things you mentioned like holds, disintegrate, etc.?

    Beam attacks are often near-instant, and not every monster is going to give you a "tell" that they're about to cast it where you can block/dodge it. Sure, there's spell absorption, but that's only going to work for a very limited number of instances. Hold spells, all you can do is hope you make your save...

    Just saying, yes, zerging is never going to be the best defense - but sometimes the only defense against enemy casters (especially in Epic when their saves against your CC get really high) is to put them into death stance as fast as possible...
    One of the best defenses is not having agro (or being in the way of something targeted at someone else.)

    Buffs and saves, maybe AC and DR.... we have defenses for many types of attacks.

    Use terrain to block or limit attacks. This can be very effective.

    Range things, use terrain while ranging.

    Back to agro, attack as few at a time as possible.


    More specific, ray attacks can be dodged. Ok, not everytime, but you can try.

    Monsters can be disabled too... stunned... etc.




    Anyway... be creative.


    Charge in if you like.....
    But if that doesn't work, I won't give you much sympathy when you come to the forums complaining how something is too powerful.

    Every encounter in the game has been solved by other players.
    Almost every encounter has been soloed.... usually by most classes, for example on Barbs and Sorcs.

    Many of those simply charged in and overpowered the encounter.. with enough HP to survive.
    Others found a more creative way to overcome the situation. (I realize, some cheated, but not all of them did.)

    (actually, I do have some sympathy for some "at-level" encounters....In the Flesh comes to mind...)
    Last edited by Talon_Moonshadow; 08-13-2013 at 09:13 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  4. #24
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    I know most of you find this difficult to believe, but YES! Some monsters actually can kill you!

    Some monsters actually have devastating attacks such as disintegrate, polar ray, light beams, holds, etc. That WILL actually kill players who are TARGETED BECAUSE THEIR ABILITY FAR EXCEEDS THEIR LEVEL AND CR.
    Fixed that for ya

  5. #25
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    The funny thing is, the only thing I consider dangerous on your list... is the no-save, no resist items.

    Lets see.

    Poison Damage
    Horrid Wilting
    Polar Ray
    Scorching Ray
    Evil Damage
    etc...

    That and OVERWHELMINGLY huge regular hits. Double attacks for 330...

    You want to solo Epic Elite content? Ensure you pick a dungeon with a boss that casts spells. Roll in with a 50+ save, that can't fail on a 1, and improved evasion... And just beat them down. Spell power is a joke, except for the few aforementioned abilities.

    That is the tragedy of the D&D spell system. When 85% of damage spells can be counter with a high reflex save, and the evasion feat... You change the game at the end game, and start tossing out new damage types... Just to get SOME effect. Some places the damage numbers are so silly high to beat the 40+ resists, that anyone who doesn't have a stupid high reflex and evasion are instantly melted.

    So yes... "Some" are dangerous... On epic elite. The rest are just fodder, and you can watch movies, while you mindlessly walk the exceedingly short, and simple "dungeons", that you just bash thru, so the guy who wanted you to go in there can hand you the loot that you couldn't find inside an "actual" dungeon.
    But most of those rarely kill me.

    Poison traps are an issue. (I have always been upset that the most dangerous thing in any dungeon is an elite trap... but now we have poison ones that break Turbines own rules for how poison i suppose to be handled....)

    Horrid Wilting seems to be close range for monsters that use it and not too high of damage, unless I am already hurt badly, or getting hurt by multiple sources.

    Same with Evil damage.

    Polar Ray can be dodged, minimized with resists, protects... fireshield.

    Similar for scorching ray. (I think my first use of circle ranging was to survive as a squishy ranger in elite Irestone Islet... once I learned that I have seldom had any trouble in there.)
    (I also remember one of my few PVP sessions with a Wizard who made frequent use of Scorching Ray... I buffed against it and circle, jumped, straiffed him and he rarely got me after that.)



    But of course what is dangerous to one player isn't even a concern to others.

    I chose that short list from forum posts I remembered.....it is not all-inclusive or even the best list I could have used.

    My own annoyance is Mind flayers and their psionic attacks....I am not sure how to defend against them, except to take then out quickly or from range. (does Spell Resistance work against that? Will Saves I assume...)

    ...some other spammed stun effects get me often as well... at least when I am the only target and there are other monsters to beat on me while I am stunned.... (and why does that Harper Pin not work?!?!!)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  6. #26
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    You can't create a game that cannot be zerged.... nor would that be fun either.

    In fact, I have no real problem with zergers, unless they ruin someone's fun.. (read in a group where someone is affected by the zerger)

    I happen to enjoy zerging.... just not everytime... mixing it up is fun to me.


    My only complaint having to do with zerging and this thread is when peoplel call fo rnerfs because they cannot zerge something....

    (more often they call for nerfs because they cannot solo with a toon that has only one form of effective attack....)

    Buffs and defenses are part of this game....
    But so are some things that cannot be buffed against.

    In general, I think players should have to chose which gear to equip for specific challenges.

    I also want to see certain builds more useful in certain situations...
    and every build to have a Kryptonite.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  7. #27
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    Fixed that for ya
    Nope, thats not fixed, because their ability is totally within the realm of their CR in most cases. The reason people complain is because we are low HP toons that do high DPS while the mobs are high HP toons that do low DPS. If you make a caster the same level as the CR of the mob you will do similar (if not more) damage on that caster. You just dont have the HP to take that hit.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  8. #28
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    One thing that really rustles my jimmies is the dispel formula. Turbine was lazy and made CR = CL, so mobs will be able to dispel your buffs with very high success, and you will auto-fail when you try to dispel theirs.

  9. #29
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoasterHops View Post
    I got vorpaled by a Cacodemon in an Elite Purge the Fallen Shrine once, now that was ****ing awesome.

    The combat log rad something like "snick, snick and off with your head, you were killed by Cacodemons vorpal attack" these may not have been the exact words but it was something like that.

    Up until then I didn't realize that Cacodemons could vorpal, well I sure know now.
    Aye, had the same thing happen to me. The vorpal blade went snicker and the Cacodemon snacked on my brains

    Since then, I've remembered to wear deathblock items in that quest, and others like it.
    There is no free lunch.

  10. #30
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Nope, thats not fixed, because their ability is totally within the realm of their CR in most cases. The reason people complain is because we are low HP toons that do high DPS while the mobs are high HP toons that do low DPS. If you make a caster the same level as the CR of the mob you will do similar (if not more) damage on that caster. You just dont have the HP to take that hit.

    Wayal, in a level 9 or so quest (maybe 11 on E?) it seems pretty far fetched to have a mob casting for non evadable damage for over 300. That is on top of 3 past ranger lives and boat buffs for another 30 absorb....

    I dont have major red arse over it either way, I just found it pretty surprising to see it. Sure would be nice if my casters could do that kinda damage at that leveL.....maybe they wouldnt be all TR'd into melee types

  11. #31
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    Destruction is really nasty because even if you save, you take monstrous bane damage.

    Remember the death ward/block, kiddies!

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    Fixed that for ya
    Thats always my complaint - when a monster gets an ability BEFORE you get access to the defense against it.

    Case in point, the level draining wolf (hyena?) at the end of Small Problem Elite. If you're at-level for the quest (L7), there is no ready source of Deathward to negate it. The first Cleric hireling that has it is L8, meaning you cant run it while you qualify for BB (and, thus, cant run Big Top at-level either). You wont be able to UMD a scroll of Deathward at L7 either, nor is there anywhere that sells a potion (except Necro I, for which you can grind for a month before you get the 5 Abbott Rings you need, or Mabar event).

    The only at-level source is a BTC item from another quest pack, the Fleshrender Visors, or being Warforged, or bringing a L7 Cleric PC. Which, for low level Heroic content, I feel is too high a bar.

    Level drain disables you very quickly, and kills you soon after, considering you only have 7 levels to lose and the proc chance on that mob is inordinately high. Even worse, you have to keep an NPC alive, meaning you cant even kite that mob, or he'll just level-drain Brawnpits to death instead, who doesnt have the common sense to stay out of melee - you HAVE to hold aggro on the wolf.

    Its situations like that, Kobayashi Mari scenarios, that I have a problem with.

  13. #33
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    Wayal, in a level 9 or so quest (maybe 11 on E?) it seems pretty far fetched to have a mob casting for non evadable damage for over 300. That is on top of 3 past ranger lives and boat buffs for another 30 absorb....

    I dont have major red arse over it either way, I just found it pretty surprising to see it. Sure would be nice if my casters could do that kinda damage at that leveL.....maybe they wouldnt be all TR'd into melee types
    Casters can do that damage at that level. The issue is the scaling of HP of mobs compared to HP of PCs. Mobs that level can have over 1k HP - especially the reavers and render type mobs that throw these spells. When a PC hits for 300 it doesnt have the same impact percentage wise as when a mob hits for 300.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  14. #34
    The Hatchery Nibor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    The only at-level source is a BTC item from another quest pack, the Fleshrender Visors, or being Warforged, or bringing a L7 Cleric PC. Which, for low level Heroic content, I feel is too high a bar.
    I disagree, I think that's plenty of solutions for wanting to run BB-elite. "bringing a cleric PC" is not exactly a high bar. Neither is "obtain the at level clicky", unless you're talking about a first lifer.

    I'm not really concerned if every quest in the game is not balanced to first life BB-Elite soloers, I think that bar is far too low.

  15. #35
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    But... what would we do if we ever encountered such a monster?!
    Sacrifice the Halfling to the monster so the rest of the party can get away!

    It is a sound tactic.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  16. #36
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Sacrifice the Halfling to the monster so the rest of the party can get away!

    It is a sound tactic.
    Finally I agree with you on something!

    it's true, you don't have to out-run the mobs you only have to out-run your slowest team member. Using them as decoys and human (well, halfling) -shields is completely acceptable.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    TCase in point, the level draining wolf (hyena?) at the end of Small Problem Elite. If you're at-level for the quest (L7), there is no ready source of Deathward to negate it. The first Cleric hireling that has it is L8, meaning you cant run it while you qualify for BB (and, thus, cant run Big Top at-level either). You wont be able to UMD a scroll of Deathward at L7 either, nor is there anywhere that sells a potion (except Necro I, for which you can grind for a month before you get the 5 Abbott Rings you need, or Mabar event).

    The only at-level source is a BTC item from another quest pack, the Fleshrender Visors, or being Warforged, or bringing a L7 Cleric PC. Which, for low level Heroic content, I feel is too high a bar.

    Level drain disables you very quickly, and kills you soon after, considering you only have 7 levels to lose and the proc chance on that mob is inordinately high. Even worse, you have to keep an NPC alive, meaning you cant even kite that mob, or he'll just level-drain Brawnpits to death instead, who doesnt have the common sense to stay out of melee - you HAVE to hold aggro on the wolf.

    Its situations like that, Kobayashi Mari scenarios, that I have a problem with.
    I don't mind that encounter for a few reasons:

    1) The flesh render visors are BTA, not BTC
    2) Flesh render visors are available from a chain level 3-7, which is typically run around level 6-7 if you do it in one go
    3) That wolf only shows up on elite

    Not a compelling reason to ignore the issue, but you could also be a wizard in zombie form.

  18. #38
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    Nonono, OP.
    Nice try, but we're not falling for your tricks.
    You just want to scare everyone away from DDO so you have all of Eberron and Eveningstar for yourself.


  19. #39
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DunkleNymphe View Post
    You just want to scare everyone away from DDO so you have all of Eberron and Eveningstar for yourself.

    No tricks needed, Turbine's doing a good job of that on their own.

  20. #40
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    Default Balderdash!

    I will not fall for your ridiculous prevarications my good sir!

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