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  1. #1
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    Default Stay 18 or level to 20

    Hi,

    Currently level 18 and enough XP banked to get 19 and probably 20.

    Thing is,

    I'm a solo player, like seeing most if not all of the content. I run all quests on hard usually 2 levels above the quest which gives me a good challenge.

    if I take level 20, yes I get a good power jump, but (if I understand it correctly) the Heroic XP I gain is wasted. Is this correct? Or can it could towards epic levels and/or destiny ?

    Opinions?

    Stay 18 (negligible power increase for taking 19 really) and enjoy the content, take level 20 when I've completed most if not all of the Heroic content

    or

    Take 20 (big power jump) plough though the content and then work on ED/Epic Levels?

    Many thanks for thoughts

    Q

  2. #2
    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
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    Stay at level 18 and keep earning XP until you see a message that you can not earn any more XP until you level up, then level up and you will be 1 XP away from level 20. Level 19 is a major bummer since a lot of the quests have lousy XP for the length of time it takes to complete them. By staying at 18 you can run things like the Vale quests without getting an XP penalty. Once you reach level 20 things really open up then with MoTU (assuming you have the pack) and Epic Destinies and you can always go back and the play the heroic content if you so choose or start a new toon

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  3. #3
    Community Member humbleroller's Avatar
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    I prefer to skip 19 all together because there is still lots of things I can do at 16 on Elite.
    In times when I have been tricked (by myself or others) to take level 19 I have needed to wait until I could get into a group that was running IQ, DreamingDark or Reavers Refuge.
    I never do Amrath unless I can play without thinking.
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  4. #4
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    You can confirm by checking your rank on the bottom bar.

    Rank 95 is the last rank of 19 so if you are 96 or above you are ready for 20. There is some glitch where you can keep advancing past rank 95 if you are at 18 sometimes.

    As soon as you get to 20 and ran all the 16s/17s you want to run, I would take 20 so you can start working on your Epic Destiny xp.

    I normally never take 19 until I am ready to take 20, but I always take 20 as soon as I can. I am sure there are many differing opinions about this, but that is mine Also, the XP for epic quests is much higher than the XP for heroic quests.

    One quick tip, if you haven't run Lords of Dust and the rest of the chain, you can hold off on those so that you get the bravery bonus on epic. You won't get the bravery bonus if you also ran a quest on heroic.
    Last edited by slarden; 08-12-2013 at 06:08 AM.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by qourthon View Post
    if I take level 20, yes I get a good power jump, but (if I understand it correctly) the Heroic XP I gain is wasted. Is this correct? Or can it could towards epic levels and/or destiny ?
    If I understand what you are saying I think you may have been misinformed. Running a heroic quest at level 20 gives you the same amount of experience as it would at level 18 (assuming being level 20 does not result in an over-level penalty for the quest in question). If you have enough experience to reach level 20 I would absolutely take level 20 so you can start leveling your ED's. Once you take level 20 feel free to keep running heroic content until you are done with it. There is no penalty for taking 20 (once again assuming you are not trying to run a quest in which a level 20 would cause an over-level penalty like the Vale quests would).
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    If I understand what you are saying I think you may have been misinformed. Running a heroic quest at level 20 gives you the same amount of experience as it would at level 18 (assuming being level 20 does not result in an over-level penalty for the quest in question). If you have enough experience to reach level 20 I would absolutely take level 20 so you can start leveling your ED's. Once you take level 20 feel free to keep running heroic content until you are done with it. There is no penalty for taking 20 (once again assuming you are not trying to run a quest in which a level 20 would cause an over-level penalty like the Vale quests would).
    What nobody else has mentioned is that heroic XP once you get past vale is complete cr@p, especially compared to epic XP. Why run IQ quests for 5k when you could be running epic quests for 60k? or EH VON3 for 110k? Also, as others have pointed out, you aren't getting any ED XP by banking 20, so really you are losing XP. To me this is a no-brainer.

  7. #7
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    If you can take level 20 and have Epic Destinies you will want to Level to 20 as soon as you can.

    Reasons:
    • Class level power boost
    • Activation of Epic Destinies
    • Level 21 - 25 currently and Epic Destines both benefit from each point of XP you earn - Basically if you earn 20K XP; you get 20K for Leveling and 20K for EDs


    Additionally Quests of Level 18 to 19 can be run by Level 20-21 characters with little to no penalty. I do agree that Epic Quests will have a higher XP return. However, some of these Heroic quests can still be "fun" as well as provide flagging/gear that can fill in gaps if your character is not epic level geared. Not that Epic Normal requires gearing.

    Personally I recommend holding Level 18 until you can level to 20. The reason is due to the number of quests available in the Level 16 Range. Holding 18 means being able to join any group running level 16 to 19 Quests. It is just more options. The only time taking 19 would be good is on a Multi-class where level 19 adds such power as to make a significant difference in the ability to level.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner81 View Post
    Level 19 is a major bummer since a lot of the quests have lousy XP for the length of time it takes to complete them. By staying at 18 you can run things like the Vale quests without getting an XP penalty.
    To clarify: Taking 19 will move you out of the streak/full XP range for Vale quests (more importantly, the farming runs). Your options at that point are:

    Reaver's Refuge chain
    Reign of Madness chain
    Eveningstar Druid chain
    IQ
    Dreaming Dark
    Shavarath

    Terrible XP prospects, and even worse grouping options. If you're on a streak, expect to drop it to hard or spend another week scrounging for 20.

  9. #9
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    Agreed. Unlike banking at lower levels, level 18 toons can bank a full 2 levels instead of coming 1 XP short. Hold 18 until you can't get any more XP, then take 20. Another benefit to taking 20 is the ability to start collecting epic tokens and fragments that can be used for fun things - most notably, a true druidic heart of wood.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Gizeh's Avatar
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    The only reason I can think of to take level 19 instead of skipping directly to level 20 is if you have a tome of learning and want to run level 17-19 quests and get the most xp out of them.

    The reason is that the type of tome that applies depends on character level*, not on quest level, and the heroic tomes of learning give a higher bonus xp percentage than the epic tomes of learning (+50/25% first time bonus on heroic tomes vs. +25/15% from epic tomes).

    *heroic tomes give an xp bonus for level 1-19 characters, epic tomes give a bonus for level 20+ characters.

  11. #11
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    If you were going to sit anywhere I would sit at 20 as you can keep earning and progressing Epic Destinies even if your regular level stays at 20.

    In my static weekly group I was at the 20 cap when MotU released but we had multiple folk who miss many weekly sessions and were levels behind plus we had multiple people use Stones of Experience to catch up and join our party.

    In that scenario I stayed at 20 and capped at least one Epic Destiny and started working on Fate Points leveling others to 3-4 ED levels while waiting for the others (some only make 1 out of every 2-4 gatherings so they straggle for awhile)... Capping Epic Destinies makes for one hell of a powerful level 20 character.

    The weird thing that did happen was that once everyone got high enough that I could go to 21 (or 22) without giving them XP penalties in dungeons I tried to level so I could do a Greater Reincarnate but found that I had more than one level banked & couldn't reincarnate and had to wait until the lowest level person got another level... I suspect it was because sometime after MotU went live I think they lowered XP or something but don't know for sure but that was the only time I have ever notice that I banked multiple levels (and it was very frustrating because I wanted to Greater Reincarnate).

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inoukchuk View Post
    What nobody else has mentioned is that heroic XP once you get past vale is complete cr@p, especially compared to epic XP. Why run IQ quests for 5k when you could be running epic quests for 60k? or EH VON3 for 110k? Also, as others have pointed out, you aren't getting any ED XP by banking 20, so really you are losing XP. To me this is a no-brainer.
    I assume he wants to play heroic quests because he wants to play and enjoy them. Usually the idea that quests are nothing but experience to get you to the level cap so you can be bored playing 2 raids is an attitude of people that have been playing for a long time and no longer enjoy the quests for what they are but merely for the progress they get from them. The main reason to run the Inspired Quarter quests is because they are a lot of fun. I enjoy the quest packs in there every life even though the experience is low.

    And honestly, epic experience is addictive. Once you play epics it is hard to go back to heroics. It is much better to do all the heroics you are ever going to want to do before you start doing epics and get addicted to the much higher amounts of experience.
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  13. #13
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    I assume he wants to play heroic quests because he wants to play and enjoy them. Usually the idea that quests are nothing but experience to get you to the level cap so you can be bored playing 2 raids is an attitude of people that have been playing for a long time and no longer enjoy the quests for what they are but merely for the progress they get from them. The main reason to run the Inspired Quarter quests is because they are a lot of fun. I enjoy the quest packs in there every life even though the experience is low.
    Thanks for pointing that out. I've tried it both ways, and it really doesn't make that much difference. And being level 19 as a caster in those IQ quests makes them far easier as your FoD/Destruction/etc is more likely to work. I rarely bank 19 any more, just play the game and enjoy myself. Farming the same quest over and over is a lot less fun that playing quests that are interesting but have poor xp. YMMV.

    Personally, I don't like the IQ quests that much, at least the ones with the dream stuff and the constant CHA damage. But i do love the Amrath quests... they are a boatload of fun, a great challenge, and most people have not done them to death so you don't have the massive zerg fests.

  14. #14
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    Many thanks for all the responses, much appreciated.

    I stayed 18 until I had enough banked for 20, thinking of holding off until I'd completed my quests up to 18, but got tempted and took 20

    Nice power boost, now I can plough through 16/17 quests to farm gear (got my Lucid Dreams on my 3rd run of Mindsunder!!!)

    Question now is:

    As a pretty solid Arti how should I start on Epics? As in, just start on level 20 epics or are there "good intro Epics to get a feel for them"?

    Thanks once again for any thoughts and inputs.

  15. #15
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    If you own MoTU, start eveningstar I chain, which is 4 quests. (Impossible Demands, Unquiet Graves, The Lost Thread, then the "final" of Battle for Eveningstar. Run it on epic hard, should be fine.

    Or just anything on epic hard to be honest. Epic hard is pretty easy, whereas epic elite isn't (at least for me) - I'd hold off doing that until you get some more gear. I just like eveningstar chain because I flag for CiTW ^^
    *Note* To clarify, I mean the Kings Forest chain.
    After that comes Schyndylryn (or something), followed by Demonweb... then a fight with a lady that has serious boobs.
    Last edited by Soulfurnace; 08-15-2013 at 04:41 AM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by qourthon View Post
    Many thanks for all the responses, much appreciated.

    I stayed 18 until I had enough banked for 20, thinking of holding off until I'd completed my quests up to 18, but got tempted and took 20

    Nice power boost, now I can plough through 16/17 quests to farm gear (got my Lucid Dreams on my 3rd run of Mindsunder!!!)

    Question now is:

    As a pretty solid Arti how should I start on Epics? As in, just start on level 20 epics or are there "good intro Epics to get a feel for them"?

    Thanks once again for any thoughts and inputs.
    You can still run heroic quests you enjoy like the Inspired Quarter/Shavarath and get epic/ed xp if you wish, but the xp totals for those quests are very low compared to epic quests.

    I usually run all the level 20s, then the 21s and kings forest, then the 22s with underdark and the drow city, then 23s, etc. Specifically I almost always run partycrashers, snitch on epic elite to keep my streak going. I usually run impossible demands on EE if my reflex save is decent. Then I go to an EH streak for leveling so I don't need to worry about my gear so much until I get to 25. A guildy and I even ran a few toons all the way to 25 mostly on EN because we didn't have great grear and wanted to start outside our main destiny to work on twists. What we lost in hard and streak bonuses we made up for by getting to 25 really really quick just running through EN quickly.

    I also try to keep an eye out for raids I am flagged for and run those when I can.

    If you want to get xp really quick and didn't farm jungle of khyber on heroic, you can farm that out before Monday and then can run it again for the daily bonus when U19 comes out and the xp model changes.

    Mostly, just do what you enjoy. Getting to 25 and 28 isn't too bad. With the new xp system you get a daily bonuses which heavily encourages running a quest once and then moving on to another quest. That is how most people like to run anyhow.

    The only wrong way to do quests is to take a recommendation you don't enjoy. Have fun and the levels will come.
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    Quote Originally Posted by qourthon View Post
    As a pretty solid Arti how should I start on Epics? As in, just start on level 20 epics or are there "good intro Epics to get a feel for them"?

    Thanks once again for any thoughts and inputs.
    First things first, for an Arti especially more than anyone, is to get your L20 Cannith Challenge gear. The base items require Heroic components, while the upgrades require Epic components. The problem is, the Heroic missions give you a LOT less rewards if you run them at L21+...so make sure you have all the base components upgraded to L20 BEFORE you start advancing your Epic level, otherwise you're going to have to run the Heroic challenges like 20 times to get enough components.

    I'd get at least Bracers of Wind, Ring of the Stalker, Ring of Master Artifice if you're WF/Construct Essence, and a Calomel Heavy Repeater, at L20 Tier 1. Or if you have Shared Stash and a L15-20 alt, then its not a big deal, of course.

    Before that, even, you might want to pop over to ES and pick up a L20 Cormyrian Heavy Repeater, unless you already have an Epic-level repeater. The 2[w] base die alone makes a huge difference, and there aren't many other Epic RXBs that aren't ML21+. Its not as good as a Calomel in terms of pure DPS, but its super fast to roll one, and it'll help your other farming.

    Epic is all about gear, especially before you get your Destinies fleshed out - so your first steps into Epic are mostly going to be upgrading your gear, getting augments for your sockets, etc.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    First things first, for an Arti especially more than anyone, is to get your L20 Cannith Challenge gear.
    Alternately (because those are nice, but some people- myself included- would rather pull their own teeth than grind challenges) make your Min2 and Lit2 repeaters, maybe a Doublecross and a Glorious Obscenity/Lucid Dreams and move on (bonus if you thought to get your Cove spyglass).

    Upgrade to Slaver's Hand and Archaic Device when you can. As long as you keep your traps up and throw weapon buffs, no one will care much what your DPS is.

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