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  1. #21
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    ... I haven't seen anyone talk about Bladeforged Paladin tanks yet. While limited to 32point builds and gear as a first lifer, Bladeforged also get some fantastic benefits:
    ...
    Bladeforged Transformation (6 Paladin) says you can't cast spells and you are immune to healing. However, when I tested it you could cast all Paladin spells and your Reconstruct SLA. While you are immune to positive healing, you can Repair and Reconstruct yourself.
    Thanks for the input & BF does seem to have quite a bit going for it. Some people don't like the way WF look but I personally don't mind WF and that could be a great tank for an all WF party (where all the arcanes & Artificers can also be a "healer" or at least self-healer).

    That being said Bladeforged is not an option for my buddy whose main/only character is a human paladin who alreay at level 25. I assume we will know when the expansion updates allow us to log in but I couldn't find Bladeforged Transformation in the PDF of enhancements.

  2. #22
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralmeth View Post
    My recommendation is to have your friend save their LR until they know / plan their build out further. Instead, just have them reset their enhancements to try things out (I assume this will still be an option). This is what I'm going to do at first, until I have time to review all of the multiclass options.

    As for feedback on your build, IMHO going with a starting stat of 17 in any stat on a Paladin is a mistake as you will want to spread your stats around. I would drop strength and con to 16 each, freeing up 6 build points. Use 1 extra level up into con instead of strength if you want epic toughness. Instead bump up intelligence and/or charisma. Aren't they changing the heal skill to add to your devotion (I'm so busy in RL I haven't had time to keep up), that it might be worth putting points into? Your friend will also want skill points for UMD.
    Appreciate the feedback & I agree that the build at the top may be a little too min/maxed. For at least this week's session I may just leave our party's levels as they are and just redo the enhancements. I can then play around on live more and see how the new skills work. Maybe I can create a PDK &/ MorningLord at level 15 to see how various combos of skills affect spell power and such with little risk to my regular characters or the others in my party.
    Last edited by Nodoze; 08-19-2013 at 09:16 AM.

  3. #23
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    A +3 Supreme tome seems like overkill for a first-lifer, but it does open up some interesting options w/feats. E.g.:
    ...
    DEX 10 + 3 tome lets you add Dodge; INT 10 + 3 tome lets you add CE (combine w/Imp CE from LD for extra PRR).
    Good points. As far as the Tomes go this Paladin is my buddy's only character (and he only plays Paladins) so it is a one time investment and as far as I know it should still be there if we ever decide to TR the entire party. Taking Ralmeth's recommendation to balance the stats does allow one to leverage the tomes better. IIRC Toughness feat isn't as valuable since they took out the Toughness enhancements from the classes/races. I also remember that the Dodge feat was a prereq for the Shintao Monk enhancement Reed In The Wind which may be better than some of the other options. May not work in Full Plate for my buddy but some may go for Evasion instead and that could be interesting.

    Added rep to you all for contributing.
    Last edited by Nodoze; 08-19-2013 at 09:18 AM.

  4. #24
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    My BF tank is currently pal 14 / wiz 1 / ftr 1; the wiz splash got me a metamagic (Quicken) and Repair I enh (+40 Repair Spellpower - unfortunately going away in the new system). I had originally planned to go pal 18, but with all the changes to the enhs, I might go pal 15 / wiz 1 / ftr 4 for the 2 extra feats and maybe a couple of goodies from the ftr PrEs. Currently my feats are: Addy Body, Power Atk, Cleave&GC, IC:Slash, Shield Mastery & ISM, Quicken. If I go ftr 4, I'll have 6 more feats (1 heroic + 2 ftr + 3 epic); that's enough for THF x3, OC, b.sword, and Toughness (or something else - maybe Extend?).

    Mostly fight with falchions (managed to buy a Falchion of the Crusader off the AH cheap); switch to scimitar+shield when I'm tanking. With just the BF starter gear, a couple of Cannith items, and a few lootgen items, I do fine solo most of the time; and the Reconstruct SLA will be a big boost to my self-repairability. But I've yet to do anything "serious" with this build, like flag for Shroud or anything. [TBH, I don't raid much, so that usually isn't worth my while.] Still, not doing too bad for a build I threw together in like 15 mins to farm Cove w/a friend.

    EDIT: were I going to redo this build now, it'd probably be pal 15 / ftr 2 / monk 3 - same number of feats, but with Evasion (+Mithril Body). The ftr splash unlocks Repair skill, so I'd use that to make up for losing Repair I enh from wiz.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 08-19-2013 at 09:36 AM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    What's the tipping point for AC to be meaningful in EE Shadowfell content? By meaningful, I mean avoidance of at least 44% of melee attacks. Non-tank builds are hitting that benchmark via 25% Incorporeality (Shadow Veil) and 25% Dodge, and they can get ~25% damage reduction without too much effort.
    same question. i want to get 20 heal amp and 2d6 vs all evil from hotd but this means, i have to make sacrifices on the defender tree. so the question is: do i sacrifice prr, ac or hp?

    my main was a twf 15pal 3 monk, 2 fighter already. for some reason i wanted to play a tank again but i have no clue about the current metagame and what is most important.

    i would suggest to swap quicken spell for extended spell as the pally buffs are annoyingly short on lvl15 without extend.

    also what is a good intimi score and intimi item? i really dont wanna go back from dragon helm to pdk helm. pdk helm was cool when i wa a tank a year ago -.-.


    awesome build here btw! had about 65 reflex yesterday and over 70 fort.

  6. #26
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Shell View Post
    same question. i want to get 20 heal amp and 2d6 vs all evil from hotd but this means, i have to make sacrifices on the defender tree. so the question is: do i sacrifice prr, ac or hp?

    my main was a twf 15pal 3 monk, 2 fighter already. for some reason i wanted to play a tank again but i have no clue about the current metagame and what is most important.

    i would suggest to swap quicken spell for extended spell as the pally buffs are annoyingly short on lvl15 without extend.

    also what is a good intimi score and intimi item? i really dont wanna go back from dragon helm to pdk helm. pdk helm was cool when i wa a tank a year ago -.-.


    awesome build here btw! had about 65 reflex yesterday and over 70 fort.
    Glad you like the Build!

    Adding the Extend Feat is certainly a good option for Quality of Life but personally I would not want to lose "un-interruptible healing" via CSW & Rejuv-Cocoon by dropping Quicken... After losing Racial & Class Toughness Enhancements in the Enhancements revamp the Toughness Feat is much less valuable than before so dropping both Toughness & Epic Toughness would let you pick up Extend and something else (many decent options) & would be my choice over dropping Quicken to get Extend...

    From KoTC, the build already has 20% Heal amp & 1d6 Evil but to pick up the extra 1d6 Evil you have to spend 2 more AP in KoTC (assuming you don't want to lose or lessen Divine Sacrifice) to get the 1d6 Evil (& the prereq 1d6 +1attack&svs vs Outsiders/Undead);

    To keep all the Heal Amp in the build the only option is to take 2AP from SD & while you can swap Tier1 & Tier3 abilities around you can't spend less than 20ap to get to tier 4 so you have to decide what to cut from SD Tier4 & Tier5 abilities:

    T4: 20ap:
    1: Redemption (True Resurrection...);
    3: Greater Sacred Defense (+20%HP->+6con->+6str);
    6: Reinforced Defense
    T5: 30ap:
    3: Greater Sacred Defense (+20%HP->+6con->+6str);
    2: Reinforced Defense; Not enough build points to fully max...

    With the above assumptions to pick up that extra 1d6 (&prereq) your full choices are to steal 2 AP from the following:
    -1AP: Resurrection & Raise Dead (assuming you have CSW & Zeal as 4th level spells) so maybe use cakes, clicky, &/or scrolls or let someone else do it?;
    -1AP: Lose 2 Strength in stance (can be reduced 2-3 times);
    -1AP: Lose 2 Constitution in stance (can be reduced 2-3 times);
    -1AP: Lose 5% HP in stance (can be reduced 2-3 times though the 3rd is 10%);
    -2AP: Lose last Reinforced Defense (15% Armor or Shield AC);

    The build is already short of max AC by 35% of a Shield (or Armor) & personally I didn't think the extra 1d6 Evil (& prereq) were worth giving up without knowing what is OK to give up at the highest difficulties...

    EDIT: The build is also short of a max Paladin Aura and a few other small things in the Sacred Defender tree.

    I thought about it much before posting and felt this was the best balance of offense & defense and the closest to max defense while picking up as much as possible on Heal Amp & Offense...

    Regarding the Intimidate there may be better specific items but at level 28 I believe you can slot +15 skills now on any slot (colorless) and least equal the Purple Dragon Helm.

    Please report back what you find at cap and any recommended adjustments !
    Last edited by Nodoze; 08-22-2013 at 10:49 AM. Reason: just denoting some other areas the build is short of max AC etc.

  7. #27
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    thanks. will try out the ac line at some point and see how it changes. but feeling survivable enough. survived the arena in ee belly of beast with self heals only and tanking

    yes people complain often about the pallys dps. but when you are in the situation where you simple do not need to care if ee velah snouts and can keep on beating without taking any damage, that is also a good dps contribution.

  8. #28
    Community Member MoonRunner's Avatar
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    If you are going B-Sword you will want First Blood from (I think I got mine in) Thrill of the Hunt which will give 13-15% doublestrike and Keen II. This will most likely be his main weapon especially if he is the type that doesn't like to swap a lot, which means improved crit is not needed. I would use for Dodge if he is doing the evasion thing but if not dodge wont bypass his armors dex bonus anyway and he is most likely going to have enough from an item to max it so he might want something else.

    I also agree that 16 is enough in any one stat. I think I went 16/14/16/10/10/10 I like the extra reflex save I get from the dex but I need to take a second look now that +8 and 9 is so common I may be everloaded on dex. I took 10 int so my +3 tome would allow combat mastery and I have to have an item to cast my spells but I guess now +8 is common and could probably dump wis all the way for 2 more cha.

    IDK I am still debating changing from pure pally to something similar to what you have posted here. My build is very close to what you have here but pure pally. I have B-sword, the shield masteries and cleaves, combat mastery and I think all the thf line with overwhelming crit and I just traded imp crit for tower shield because I got my First Blood. Pure pally just doesn't pay off anymore with no weapons of good while maxing Defender. Anyway just some thoughts.
    Last edited by MoonRunner; 09-10-2013 at 12:38 AM.
    My Main is a 7th life Pure Druid - Friertuck

    AKA LitleJohn 2nd life wiz, Starsfan 2nd life Barbarian and Thrasiuus Epic Pally 1st life and a few iconics.

  9. #29
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonRunner View Post
    If you are going B-Sword you will want First Blood from (I think I got mine in) Thrill of the Hunt which will give 13-15% doublestrike and Keen II. This will most likely be his main weapon especially if he is the type that doesn't like to swap a lot, which means improved crit is not needed. I would use for Dodge if he is doing the evasion thing but if not dodge wont bypass his armors dex bonus anyway and he is most likely going to have enough from an item to max it so he might want something else.

    I also agree that 16 is enough in any one stat. I think I went 16/14/16/10/10/10 I like the extra reflex save I get from the dex but I need to take a second look now that +8 and 9 is so common I may be everloaded on dex. I took 10 int so my +3 tome would allow combat mastery and I have to have an item to cast my spells but I guess now +8 is common and could probably dump wis all the way for 2 more cha.

    IDK I am still debating changing from pure pally to something similar to what you have posted here. My build is very close to what you have here but pure pally. I have B-sword, the shield masteries and cleaves, combat mastery and I think all the thf line with overwhelming crit and I just traded imp crit for tower shield because I got my First Blood. Pure pally just doesn't pay off anymore with no weapons of good while maxing Defender. Anyway just some thoughts.
    Thanks for sharing and please post back what you decide. I agree that the original build posted above is a little too min-maxed and it may make sense to balance out the stats better though would want to figure out the max dex bonus at end game before investing more there.

    My buddy will stay heavy armor & tower shield tanking as that is the way he sees his character and I don't think he would be ok with pajamas even if it is better in game. Since we already have a AC/PRR tank Paladin on my Paladin I am focusing on DPS & Paladin is becoming a splash. I was originally looking at the Avenging Angel 8-fighter/6-Paladin/6-Monk with FotW Adrenaline Smites but then started thinking 12-fighter/4-Paladin/4-Monk/FotW for the Psionic boost to smites but now starting to think about going 12-fighter/2-Paladin/6-Monk/Legendary-Dreadnought to keep the 25% incorp. Hate to lose the adrenalized smites but I have already played multiple FotW builds and would like to try Legendary Dread and see how I like less "spikey" damage and the more boosts & extra multipliers from Legendary Dread... Regardless, either route will give me a feel for pajamas verses heavy armor on a melee which is foreign to both of us as Heavy Armor Paladins from PnP days and though I am willing to try it as long as there is at least some Paladin in there I know my buddy won't go there.

    If you stay pure Paladin and have invested in UMD I believe you can still put a Master's Touch scroll in your main hand and Tower Shield in your off hand and grant yourself proficiency in Tower Shield. That helps Paladins who without splashes are feat starved. Two of my buddies are not good with buffing and stuff like that after each rest as they just want to run and go kill so they would likely be better off having the feat but I like to try to max things and don't mind.
    Last edited by Nodoze; 09-11-2013 at 06:42 AM.

  10. #30
    Community Member MoonRunner's Avatar
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    Here is what I have come up with

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Thrasiuus+20 LR
    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
    (5 Fighter \ 15 Paladin) 
    Hit Points: 300
    Spell Points: 185 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 24
    Reflex: 14
    Will: 13
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    20
    Dexterity            10                    13
    Constitution         15                    18
    Intelligence         10                    13
    Wisdom                8                    11
    Charisma             16                    23
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               0                     7
    Bluff                 3                     6
    Concentration         2                     4
    Diplomacy             3                     6
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                3                     6
    Heal                  3                    23
    Hide                  0                     1
    Intimidate            7                    29
    Jump                  3                     5
    Listen               -1                     0
    Move Silently         0                     1
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                0                     1
    Search                0                     1
    Spot                 -1                     0
    Swim                  3                     5
    Tumble                n/a                   2
    Use Magic Device      5                    17
    
    Level 1 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 7 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 9 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 11 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 12 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 13 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 20 (Paladin)

    I am still playing with ED's so I wont make suggestions there. I prefer Empower heal to quicken on this build because anytime you are truly tanking you should have a dedicated healer assigned to you so your LOH should be all you need. Any other time Empower seems more effective for my play style as I can do a little mini kite throw a few cure mods to top off then get back in the fight. When I went the quicken route I could stay put and toss those cure mods and while yes they always hit they didn't heal for enough to take a swing between cure mods. Bottom line is a Pallys LOH are used for in combat situation while their cure mod is used to top them off between fights so Quicken is obsolete on a pally unless it works on cocoon then I could see a small argument for it. I also took Extend and one of these two metas are what might be swapped for combat expertise. I currently have it and don't use it much but at the same time I don't take a tanking roll often as I am mostly working on earning fate points atm.

    That is the build I would recommend for your friend and if you really want to wear lingerie I would suggest you use 2 of those fighter levels and take rogue then drop Cha to 14 so you can make dex 14. If you are not going to stay centered then you gain nothing from monk that you don't get with rogue. You need to take 3 levels of fighter for your kensia enhancements.

    I did some testing on an iconic and for verification you can build both stances but would have to toggle between them. Anyway I have lots more to experiment with but this is basically were I am at this point. I think that build is the one I will do but am waiting just a little longer before I do.
    Last edited by MoonRunner; 09-12-2013 at 03:05 PM.
    My Main is a 7th life Pure Druid - Friertuck

    AKA LitleJohn 2nd life wiz, Starsfan 2nd life Barbarian and Thrasiuus Epic Pally 1st life and a few iconics.

  11. #31
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Why ftr 5? Is that so you can add Block & Cut?

  12. #32
    Community Member MoonRunner's Avatar
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    Oh yes I left that point out. This build definitely favors a splash of a third something Assuming that you will take 3 fighter/ 15 pally. I guess the best 2 class version would be 4fighter 16 pally for the extra fighter feat and one more pally spell. If you are splashing a third class for evasion then 15/3 will get what you need for feats and enhancements. Sorry I thought that out early in my planning but in the end I just added 2 more fighter levels to top the build off.

    On another note I just made an Iconic Shadar-Kai lvl 2 rogue18 cleric planning a future raid healer since I have been TRing my main healer. Anyway I discovered now that we have a need for heal and spellcraft skills multi classing a rogue becomes more difficult. Of coarse a pally only needs the heal as they have no spells that benefit from spellcraft. That changes the argument of multi classing to a rogue vs a monk but that may be more of a question for multi class trappers post U19.
    Last edited by MoonRunner; 09-12-2013 at 04:41 PM.
    My Main is a 7th life Pure Druid - Friertuck

    AKA LitleJohn 2nd life wiz, Starsfan 2nd life Barbarian and Thrasiuus Epic Pally 1st life and a few iconics.

  13. #33
    Community Member boredman's Avatar
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    Default How about a Unarmed Paladin 15/monk 3/fighter 2

    Im thinking on using a LR (not the 20+ one) to change my old pre update unarmed paladin 15/monk 4/fighter 1, into a Paladin 15/monk 3/fighter 2:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Punisher 3 sep 2013
    Level 28 Lawful Good Human Male
    (2 Fighter \ 15 Paladin \ 3 Monk \ 8 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 466
    Spell Points: 452 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 24
    Reflex: 17
    Will: 19
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (36 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 28)           (Level 28)
    Strength             16                 23                   23
    Dexterity            13                 17                   17
    Constitution         13                 16                   16
    Intelligence         10                 13                   13
    Wisdom               15                 19                   20
    Charisma             14                 18                   20
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
    +4 Tome of Charisma used at level 17
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
    Balance               6                    22
    Bluff                 2                    13
    Concentration         6                    34
    Diplomacy             2                    13
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                2                    13
    Heal                  5                    34
    Hide                  2                    11
    Intimidate            4                    36
    Jump                  7                    26
    Listen                3                    13
    Move Silently         2                    11
    Open Lock             n/a                  n/a
    Perform               n/a                  n/a
    Repair                0                     9
    Search                0                     9
    Spellcraft            0                     9
    Spot                  3                    13
    Swim                  n/a                  n/a
    Tumble                n/a                  n/a
    Use Magic Device      2                    13
    
    Level 1 (Monk)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Concentration (+4)
    Skill: Heal (+2)
    Skill: Intimidate (+2)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+2)
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+2)
    
    
    Level 6 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 7 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    
    
    Level 8 (Monk)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Improved Sunder
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+2)
    Skill: Jump (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+2)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    
    
    Level 11 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+2)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+3)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 14 (Monk)
    Skill: Balance (+3)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+2)
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
    
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+2)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+2)
    
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+2)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+2)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    
    
    Level 20 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+2)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    
    
    Level 21 (Paladin)
    Skill: Bluff (+2)
    Skill: Haggle (+2)
    Skill: Hide (+2)
    Skill: Intimidate (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2.60779e+007)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical
    
    
    Level 22 (Paladin)
    Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
    Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
    Skill: Hide (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2.60786e+007)
    
    
    Level 23 (Paladin)
    Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
    Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
    Skill: Hide (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2.60788e+007)
    
    
    Level 24 (Paladin)
    Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 25 (Paladin)
    Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    
    
    Level 26 (Paladin)
    Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
    Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
    Skill: Hide (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
    
    
    Level 27 (Paladin)
    Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
    Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
    Skill: Hide (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Damage Reduction
    
    
    Level 28 (Paladin)
    Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Wisdom (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Protection from Tainted Creatures (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Skin (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Skin (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Skin (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Fists of Iron (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Fiendslayer I (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Courage of Heaven (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Fiendslayer II (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Improved Courage of Heaven (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Damage Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Damage Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Damage Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Sacrifice (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Charisma (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Censure Demons (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Charisma (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Sealed Life (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Divine Righteousness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Inciting Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Martial Arts (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Martial Arts (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 3)
    The idea is to have a more dps paladin that use mountain stance for more PRR, some hitpoints and possibly the grand mountain stance for +1 crit on 19-20 rolls, for some reason the planner didn't allow to take adept, master and grandmaster of forms features but i believe that can be taken (i took a second toughness, quicken and emp healing instead).

    Human for: Is the race i currently have but gives more heal amp, extra feature, damage boost, ability scores and maybe skills but tight on ap.

    15 paladin for: Csw and Cmw, zeal, cha bonus to saves and strength, heal amp enhancements and energy drain inmmunity, some usage of sacred defender stance for more PRR and saves (using handwraps), some bonus against evils or undeads, some lay of hands, some sp for cocoon, damage boost, etc.

    3 Monk for: stunning fist (64 dc is easily achivable on Gmof destiny, can raise to 70+ dc with better gear and past lives plus imp sunder to help), handwraps (antipode, gravewrappings, undead beaters, adamantine knuckles, etc), more heal amp from shintao tree plus more PRR in mountain stance and 10% offhand chance (i believe?), fist of iron, maybe even some sneak damage from ninja spy but tight on ap.

    2 Fighter for: haste boost 30, +3 to tactics, and extra features.

    my toon is 36 pt but can drop a little bit cha or wis on 32 or 34 pt toons
    Prereqs on base stats: 23 base Str for overwhelming critical, 17 Dex for greater and perfect twf, then can spent on Cha for bonus to saves and strength with dm, and wisdom for SF dc, then at least 14 con for hitpoints (not sure if need 16 base for master stone stance)

    Gear can use until lvl 25 (pre u19)

    weapon : antipode
    goggles: dream visor or deadly of accur with slot for dex
    ring: avithoul or tod ring with holyburst or heal amp 20, ring of shadows, stormreaver,etc
    outfit: spider spun caparison insight wis, or white/black dragon with prr slotted
    helm: dragon or epic mask of comedy
    Boots: treads of falling or Gs of 45 hp and displacement clickies
    gloves: claw set or inmortality (fot ones)
    Neclace: jorgundalls collar eh or ee or shintao set or health 8+ random loot
    Bracers: claw or convalescence heal amp 30 of parrying +4
    cloak: cloak of night lvl 24 or random loot with dodge, cha +8 and slots, etc
    trinklet: planar of prowess for +15 prr and artifact bonus with antipode

    The toon is capable of using all meele destinies (prefered Gmof for more wisdom and tactics, LD, primal avatar, US and then Fotw), has good doublestrike, saves, PRR, some dodge, tactics with Sf +imp sunder and maybe Gmof ones, self healing with very good heal amp + coccon + csw/cmw, decent damage with unarmed speed + haste boost+ damage boost+ zeal+ df+dm, plus maybe earth stance for +1 crit and overwhelming critical and fist of iron. (the only drawback is the hitpoints that are a little low for tanks (around 700-900 hp depending on destiny and stance, but with good saves, PRR, evasion and self healing can be fine)

    Also has decent intimidate and hate generation with divine righteousness and maybe mountain stance and enhancements from sacred defender stance.

    Twists: sense of weakness, rejuvenation cocoon, legendary tactics or dance of the flowers or brace of impact
    Last edited by boredman; 09-29-2013 at 09:24 PM.

  14. #34
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    Reading this thread with interest as I have a 13Pal/1Ftr in progress, but with that whole "unequip your shield and lose a bunch of hit points" the original build using THF is obviously no longer optimal. As only a Premium player I don't have access to Monk, so I'm wondering if going 4 levels of Fighter works, or if there's another splash that is better. Without doing any in-depth research, my thought was to go 16Pal/4Ftr (going Ftr5 doesn't get me anything, and 16Pal has an extra 1st level spell). Feats would be (incomplete list) CE, Improved Crit: Slash, Shield Mastery, Imp. Shield Mastery, PA, and Cleave/Great Cleave. Those last two would be to approximate the THF function from the previous build idea of spiking DPS & holding agro without having to switch weapons. Many of the enhancements would still be in line with those discussed above.

    Also wondering if Imp. Trip is worth the investment for such a build. Should be noted this is my first Tank build in DDO, so somewhat uncharted territory (though I do have other active epic level toons).

  15. #35
    Community Member Meat-Head's Avatar
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    Thought: Go CHA Based fully. Use Divine Might.


    Pros: Saves and Intim go up while sacrificing no strength.
    Cons: Click a button every 2 mins
    Pro of the Con: It's instant now (or close to instant)



    ??
    KASHIL -- KASHILAH -- MATTAH -- MAHGANE -- KHYBER -- ANNIHILATION
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    First, Meat-Head is exactly correct...

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meat-Head View Post
    Thought: Go CHA Based fully. Use Divine Might.


    Pros: Saves and Intim go up while sacrificing no strength.
    Cons: Click a button every 2 mins
    Pro of the Con: It's instant now (or close to instant)



    ??
    How are you not sacrificing strength? Every 2 points of charisma translates to only 1 point of strength.

  17. #37
    Community Member Meat-Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    How are you not sacrificing strength? Every 2 points of charisma translates to only 1 point of strength.


    KASHIL -- KASHILAH -- MATTAH -- MAHGANE -- KHYBER -- ANNIHILATION
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    First, Meat-Head is exactly correct...

  18. #38
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    OK, so the STR loss from converting CHA notwithstanding, does it make good tanky sense to add Cleave/Great Cleave? Seems like there's a lot of flavors out there, just want to see if there's a reason I haven't seen anyone mention this one before.

  19. #39
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    If you're not going pure for capstone or 18 / 2 for Glorious Stand, I think pal 14 / monk 2 / ftr 2 is your best option. Pal 14 gets you core enhs thru lvl 12 and one lvl 4 spell slot (Zeal); monk 2 gets you 2 extra feats, Evasion, +3 to saves, and some T1 monk enhs which work even while uncentered; ftr 2 gets you 2 feats, Haste Boost, and access to other goodies, like Extra Action Boost or Shield Striking. The question is what to do with those last two lvls:
    • Pal 15: 2nd lvl 4 spell slot, +1 Smite & Remove Disease
    • Pal 16: +1 lvl 2 spell slot, +15 SPs (big whup)
    • Ftr 3: access to Overbalance & Spiritual Bond
    • Ftr 4: 1 extra feat
    • Monk 3: +5% run speed & monk path (but only if centered); +5% heal amp +10 Pos Spellpower from Shintao core
    • Monk 4: +0.5[W] and +2% Dodge if centered; otherwise nothing


    Seems to me pal 16 and monk 4 add the least to a S&B build, so let's drop those options. So that leaves 15 / 3 / 2, 14 / 3 / 3, and pal 14 / ftr 4 / monk 2 as possibilities.

    Here's one possibility:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 28 Lawful Good Human Female
    (2 Fighter \ 15 Paladin \ 3 Monk \ 8 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 438
    Spell Points: 260 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 24
    Reflex: 12
    Will: 12
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
    Strength             16                    24
    Dexterity             8                     8
    Constitution         16                    18
    Intelligence         10                    10
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             14                    18
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
    Balance              -1                    19
    Bluff                 2                    12
    Concentration         3                    12
    Diplomacy             2                    12
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                2                    15
    Heal                  3                    30
    Hide                 -1                     7
    Intimidate            6                    41
    Jump                  3                    18
    Listen               -1                     7
    Move Silently        -1                     7
    Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
    Perform               n/a                  n/a
    Repair                0                     8
    Search                0                     8
    Spellcraft            0                     8
    Spot                 -1                     7
    Swim                  n/a                  n/a
    Tumble               n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device      4                    23
    
    Level 1 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
    Feat: (Deity) Favored by the Sovereign Host
    Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 2 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 6 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 7 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 8 (Monk)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 10 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 11 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 13 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 17 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 20 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Fiendslayer I (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Sacrifice (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Divine Righteousness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Redemption (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Inciting Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Inciting Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Inciting Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Charisma (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Swift Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Charisma (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Harbored by Light (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Harbored by Light (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Harbored by Light (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Item Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Protection from Tainted Creatures (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Reed in the Wind (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Exemplar (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Exemplar (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Exemplar (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 21 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical
    
    
    Level 22 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 23 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 24 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    
    
    Level 25 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 26 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 27 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Damage Reduction
    
    
    Level 28 (Paladin)
    Pal 15 for Zeal+CSW; monk 3 for +5% heal amp; Shield Striking boosts shield bashing chance to 35% (assuming WAI). Tried to include everything I could to max out my S&B DPS & stance, while still squeezing in +3% Dodge, +25% heal amp, and +6 Intim +25% threat from Stalwart + Shintao.

    Skills: 23 ranks of Intim, 11 ranks of UMD, 20 ranks of Heal, 9 ranks of Balance. +2 INT tome would let me max Heal and bump up Balance some more.

    It probably looks odd to start this w/28 pts. But I find that forces me to figure out what really matters to my builds in ways that multi-TRs with tomes out the wazoo do not.

    Enhs can be tweaked to be more DPS-centric, by shifting APs from upper-tier SD into KotC (more core enhs, more Sacrifice & Exalted Smite, etc.) and Kensei (Extra Action Boost, Weap Spec I); or more heal-amp-centric, by bumping up KotC and racial trees.

  20. #40
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    I see Cleave/Great Cleave in there so that's answered, but since I don't have access to Monk (only Premium as mentioned above) my question is does it make sense to do more than splash Fighter? Since you referenced the pally capstone I'm guessing it beats out the extra feat I get from going Ftr4? Also, I see you have THF feats in there. But, with all the SaD enhancements that boost HP when wielding a shield, I'd lose well over 100 hp if I ever swapped (at level 14 I'm already losing ~75). Doesn't seem worth it to me - I'd rather ditch the THF feats, stay S&B, and pick up something that'll help in another way.

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