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  1. #1
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    Andoris's Avatar
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    Default Proposal for expanding end game

    This quote from The Troll got me thinking:

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    EE Chains of Flame is a blast . . . and it's absolutely pointless!

    Quests get run for:

    - XP
    - Fun
    - Loot
    - Favor
    I completely agree. As many have said here, when end game was level 20 there was a significant amount of content, and a decent variety in which quests/raids were ran to get end game gear. Additionally, many of those quests were very fun and challenging. I am going to propose a solution that would address 3 of the above items (XP, Fun, Loot) which I don't think it would be that difficult to bring that back (relatively), from a development and design perspective.

    Here are my thoughts:

    1. Commit and communicate the max level planned and maintain that for a long time 2+years (lvl 28 is a good stopping point imo). If you don't do this, we will be back in the same situaion 6 months after level cap in increased again.
    2. Utilize the "True Elite" difficulty that is hinted at for Saga's in the quest completions log. True Elite should automatically take the quest difficulty to max level (ie 28) similar to the old "Epic" difficulty.
    3. Create an upgrade path for all the old epic gear (lvl 20 stuff) that would give it a level 28 version. In most cases this will be as easy as adding some slots and/or upgrading the numerical value of the abilities a bit.
    4. To upgrade the items they will need to already be an Epic item, and would need ingredients that are gained from running the associated Saga or Raid.
    5. Saga's need to be created for all of the epic adventure packs, completing the saga on epic difficulties will ensure a high percentage chance (maybe 15% EN/25% EH/40% EE/75% True Elite) of giving the seal/shard you want as a end reward.
    6. MOTU items can be upgraded similarly by simply adding slots for the True Elite version
    7. True Elite XP should be significantly higher for all quests (think 50% bonus or more) which will give additional incentive and help reduce the ED grind, or maybe in some way play into your epic TR plans.

    For example, True Elite Bracers of the Claw might be ML 28 have the following abilities: Elite Vulkoor's Might Gives +5 or 6 damage and 30% extra threat, Insightful Con +3, Fortification 125%, and maybe throw in a yellow slot

    It should be easy for a item designer to upgrade all of the old epic items as such

    This will have the effect of adding a metric ton of (old)new Fun content to end game and give a wide variety of gearing options while leveraging the existing code and should be fairly easy to accomplish.

  2. #2
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Default

    /signed

    not that it will happen.

  3. #3
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    /signed
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  4. #4
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    /signed I and many others have had the same revamp old endgame idea scale it to the highest cap and make loot upgradable to 28 (eventually 30th) level.

    Here's the thing, producer Rowan's pm in reply to me asking about my attrition thread (which also offers up old endgame revamp as an idea) was "more/faster updates" paraphrasing. Leading me to believe that their course is set for a while. I also suspect that having an "endgame" is something they have decided to phase out of the game, in favor of an eternal TR/epic TR hamster wheel.

    It's the only reason I can think of why they are A) so fired up to raise the cap to 28 so soon especially with the players already spread thin, and B) the latest expansion having zero raids or anything else that might be considered a "destination" that tests finished character builds.

    My personal problem with this is I have no interest is perfecting the last little minute detail of a character. This "three past lives to get 3 more damage, 15% more heal amp etc... doesn't appeal to me, and especially if there is quite literally NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO to enjoy all that character perfecting. I honestly find first life toons to be totally capable in even EE content.

  5. #5
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    I would be happy for Turbine to set a permanent level cap at 30, and then fill out that space with max level quests, chains, raids, and gear like they had for the level 20 space before MotU.

    I would like to see Heroic TR and EDTR be essentially separate, with an option to chain them with the same EDTR Heart (or whatever).

    This would offer more options to many players. Heroic TR that has no effect on ED's, epic TR to 20 that has no effect on heroic levels, full epic TR to 1 that combines the tradeoffs of both, and solid endgame and gear building.

    imho
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  6. #6
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Would be better than what is going on now so..
    /signed
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    Insulting the development team is not allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jendrak
    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  7. #7
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    I'll /sign as well though I'd like to add that I'd rather see new end game raids than so much time invested in upgrading old stuff.

    Planning for the be all end all lvl cap of 30 some years down the road is a great idea and something they should plan for far in advance.


    The ultimate goal should be something like this:

    1. The lvl cap will never be raised beyond 30 (or whatever number they agree on) so all advancement beyond that will be more variety in end game quests/raids/new TR options.

    2. Every lvl in the game should have at least 10 quests / 2 adventure packs worth of content plus 1 raid.

    3. Each difficulty will have separate, maybe even unique loot so there is some incentive to run things on all difficulties.

    4. Higher lvl / higher difficulty content is actually difficult and takes time/practice to beat. Otherwise people just farm things heavily just after an update and then leave till the next update.

    They would need to include a raid in every update for the next dozen to approach that amount though which is not likely.

  8. #8
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Here's the thing about their "eternal hamster wheel" of TR/Epic TR . . . it's looking right now like 90% of the above level 20 content . . .

    It's pointless.

    What is the point in grinding for more power when you can already beat everything in the game?

    This strategy will fail.

    Of course I could be wrong. If the benefits of Epic TR are game-breakinly powerful you'll get people to do it. if it's the measly +1 damage or 5% healing amp it's all meh.

    I'm not sure Turbine will offer something that game breaking. Then again these are the same people who think a DC 75 Quivering Palm is good for the game.
    Last edited by Teh_Troll; 08-12-2013 at 02:04 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakharov View Post
    .
    .
    .

    Planning for the be all end all lvl cap of 30 some years down the road is a great idea and something they should plan for far in advance.
    .
    .
    .
    Little more than a year from 25 to 28; I can see 30 coming after just another year or two.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Grosbeak07's Avatar
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    Keep in mind a lot of games are staying away from Raiding = End Game.

    Lotro has pretty much abandoned that idea in the same way DDO has.

    I'd like to see more challenges that scale up to 12 players and then have more solid 6 man quests and quest chains.

    I'm tired of flagging and then trying to run raids and having people not flagged.

    So in a way /signed.
    Magical Rings are well... magical. - Gandalf

  11. #11
    Community Member Grosbeak07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    Little more than a year from 25 to 28; I can see 30 coming after just another year or two.
    I think we'll see 30 early next year.
    Magical Rings are well... magical. - Gandalf

  12. #12
    Community Member count_spicoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakharov View Post
    I'll /sign as well though I'd like to add that I'd rather see new end game raids than so much time invested in upgrading old stuff.

    Planning for the be all end all lvl cap of 30 some years down the road is a great idea and something they should plan for far in advance.
    im with zak here. your proposal isn't a bad one but I would like to see new end game quests and raids that give a good challenge. I have farmed enough of the lower level quests to nauseam that rerunning them at upper levels with just tougher monsters doesn't do it for me. Some really challenging level 28 raids and EE quests that give you some incentive to keep running them and build your toon accordingly to be able to compete in that end game content.

  13. #13
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by count_spicoli View Post
    Some really challenging level 28 raids and EE quests that give you some incentive to keep running them and build your toon accordingly to be able to compete in that end game content.
    Biggest part.

    Who cares if you're tank can make EE LOB look stupid? it don't matter.

    There needs to be a loot incentive to run it.

    EE FoT at least gives you a lottery ticket at a chance of winning Draconic Soul Gems.

  14. #14
    Franchise Director ProducerRowan's Avatar
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    Just to give some insight, our next raid (coming out early in 2014) will be balanced to level 30. Lots of dracoliches.

    We plan to raise the level cap to 30 at the end of 2014, and keep it there for the extended future.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    I would be happy for Turbine to set a permanent level cap at 30, and then fill out that space with max level quests, chains, raids, and gear like they had for the level 20 space before MotU.
    Interesting ideas.

    ... lost the race to Rowan!
    Last edited by Vargouille; 08-12-2013 at 02:59 PM.

  16. #16
    Franchise Director ProducerRowan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Interesting ideas.
    Shh, we're supposed to keep everything secret!

    (Oops)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProducerRowan View Post
    Just to give some insight, our next raid (coming out early in 2014) will be balanced to level 30. Lots of dracoliches.

    We plan to raise the level cap to 30 at the end of 2014, and keep it there for the extended future.
    If you plan to stick to that level, then build from there and recreate a real endgame that just keep growing, i'll be coming back for sure. Maybe not right now, but I like the game well enought (even think it's great when there's... something to do) to wait and re-make it my predilection MMO. That'd be awesome really.

    Now, DO IT! .

    Edit: Now seeing that it seems serious... I MIGHT be trying the new expansion. I had lost hope in the future for a little while.
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 08-12-2013 at 03:03 PM.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Grosbeak07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProducerRowan View Post
    Just to give some insight, our next raid (coming out early in 2014) will be balanced to level 30. Lots of dracoliches.

    We plan to raise the level cap to 30 at the end of 2014, and keep it there for the extended future.
    Great news.
    Magical Rings are well... magical. - Gandalf

  19. #19
    Community Member soloist12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProducerRowan View Post
    Just to give some insight, our next raid (coming out early in 2014) will be balanced to level 30. Lots of dracoliches.

    We plan to raise the level cap to 30 at the end of 2014, and keep it there for the extended future.
    As long as you're at the helm Rowan, I'm going to keep playing

  20. #20
    Community Member Momsboys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProducerRowan View Post
    Just to give some insight, our next raid (coming out early in 2014) will be balanced to level 30. Lots of dracoliches.

    We plan to raise the level cap to 30 at the end of 2014, and keep it there for the extended future.
    Actual level or epic level?
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