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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by WiseFreelancer View Post
    Storm Horns end-rewards include a cloak with Enchantment V and Transmutation IV (or might be the other way round) and a pair of boots with Conjuration V. Unfortunately the items are otherwise pretty useless so I doubt they'll be used. No Necro V on named items that I've seen so far.
    The nether orb, Spell lore 10%, random +5 focus, a SP proc etc. See picture above. It is definately something I can consider giving up my Acid orb for. Especially since it comes with a red augment slot. +5 Evocation here I come.

  2. #22
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    Someone can tell me what's the base damage of Elemental Fury?
    My rogue would know it...
    Thanks.

  3. #23
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Personally seen Staves so far.

    Last night, Necro Focus V, +5 DC to Necro spells.

    Far as other items, cannot think of any off top of my head but that in no way means that they are not out there.

    Hard to keep track of all the new loot and what one has seen or not seen and I have been using the re-roll feature to see more. You can only imagine all the stuff flying by...
    As far as I know, Staves are weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by WiseFreelancer View Post
    Storm Horns end-rewards include a cloak with Enchantment V and Transmutation IV (or might be the other way round) and a pair of boots with Conjuration V. Unfortunately the items are otherwise pretty useless so I doubt they'll be used. No Necro V on named items that I've seen so far.
    Named items are pretty useless in this state. That's why I'd like if Evocation, Enchantment, Necromancy V can be found on Random generated Necklaces/Helms/Trinkets/Cloaks/Gloves/Boots/Bracers/Rings.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
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  4. #24
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    It's an EXPANSION pack. A pack even VIPs have to buy in order to play. This is just not the philosophical pack that is left gather dust in the arsenal of quests. These are raidless end quests.

    I'm willing to give Melange a break - but Bound to Character on Equip items are a monumental waste of shelf space if they're never used. And if they're not at least half useful they can't be sold. That's the nature of the beast.

    In regards to the hood. Dragon helms are one - but this also competes will all helmets before it - like Epic helmets from the old Epic system. Like Greensteel. The great irony of more levels and thus more power is that it gets easier to complete one of the most versatile raids in this game with finite but great options for gears.

    Not all of these needs to be great.

    But like First blood - B-Sword - +8, Bloodletter VII (5-90 slashing), Doublestrike 15%, Keen III (no augment).

    This is a okay B-sword but it competes (for B-sword users) against Nightmare. So at best people might use it as off hand. Doublestrike IS nice, but Keen is redundant. Bloodletter is alright. +8 is good. It's a balance between adding good features that is worth equip it for, and not overpowered in the other stuff. This one I could imagine using for a sword and board build. BUT it will always compete against what came before it.

    Glorious Dawn (ring). Deathblock 6 (18% neg energy absorb), Acid Guard 8 (8-32 acid damage when hit) and green augment.

    We have two ring slots. Would you give up one when there's the necklace out of GH that even absorbs spells, the cloak out of GH plus all the other things in this game with deathblock, energy absorb and spell absorb.

    I'm not saying that the item(s) have to be unique. But if you get a ML 27-28 item then it should feel like it replaces something in your inventory and not a temporary swap-in in case of X quest.

    In regards to the X-bow.

    Sure - flavor and all that. But across all the crossbows in this game today the bar should be on par with needle or at least a compelling reason to use instead of needle. Like it has that one extra that makes it worth to swap away from the MOTU bows or needle. If it doesn't then why would anyone run it on EE to get what we see?

    The scimmi and B-sword have those little extra things that make them interesting. The Xbow adds stat damage and redundant keen feature. And that competes with dust epic items like doublecross bow, silver bow and then the slavers and needle. All which will be even easier to get with 3 more levels under your belt. And are far more compelling and useful.

    Items don't need to be overpowered and great - but they need to fill a useful gap. If it just appeals to a horder mentality and without a useful niche it won't get much use.

    That's not melanges of feather of suns fault. It's to fail to look at say 20+ quest items and see - what kind of interesting niche can I create now?

    As of now I can't find one single toon that would use those rings. None that will use the hood other for the clicky, some that might use the googles for the stat, some that might use the scimmi and the bsword, but nothing else and I got about 10 or so level 25 toons. So a lot of toons with lots of gear slots.

    And when you create a Maul that's a barely better ratkiller, won't replace a level 20 Fury or even the one out of Sub-t, then I think the Devs need to figure out how it fails to compel use.

    Just my 2 cents. Note - it's good that you find so much use out of these items. That's a win win for you. I personally just don't want good quests and great wilderness to become another back no one squints at in the future. Whether we like it or not items are a big reason why we grind some content.
    Excellent feedback!!!

    This is what we, and +Mel, will need to improve his skills at loot creation and what we want to see from it.

    I am also very sure if +Mel had more time then the scant week or so to make these, they could and would have been better.

    It's hard to keep the Monty Haul Campaign going when we have been spoiled with such great loot over the years.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
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  5. #25
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    The AH is fully stocked right now, so I'm taking the opportunity to identify the various permutations available on the new items.

    Goatskin Boots (Feet):
    Speed XV (constant)
    Green Aug slot (constant)
    Colorless Aug slot (constant)
    Permutations: <STR|DEX|CON> +8, Armor +10, <Fire|Cold|Electric|Acid|Sonic> Resist +40, 115% Fortification

    Gloves of the Master Illusionist (Hand)
    INT +11 (constant)
    Illusion Focus +5 (constant)
    Yellow Aug slot (constant)
    Permutations: None

    Prismastic Cloak, Blue (Back)
    Cold Absorption 30% (constant)
    Green Aug slot (constant)
    Permutations: +10 Resistance, Natural Armor +10, +10 Competence to-hit, Bluff +20, Concentration +20, Diplomacy +20, Intimidate +20, Spot +20, Search +20, Haggle +20, Spellcraft +20, Heal +20, Listen +20, Wizardry X.

    There are blue (cold), red (fire), grey (sonic), green (acid) and violet (electric) variations of the cloak.

    Consuming Darkness (Ring)
    Seeker XII (constant)
    Combat Mastery +5 (constant)
    Green Aug slot (constant)
    Permutations: None

    Glorious Dawn (Ring)
    Deathblock VI (Deathblock + 18% neg energy absorb) (constant)
    Green Aug slot (constant)
    Acid Guard VIII (constant)
    Permutations: None

    Prisoner's Manacles (Wrist)
    Incite +30% (constant)
    Reinforced Fists (constant)
    Green Aug (constant)
    Colorless Aug (constant)
    Permutations: +45 <specific> resistance, +9 <STR|CON|DEX>, 120% Fortification, Armor +11

    Shadowsight (Goggles)
    WIS +11 (constant)
    Accuracy X (constant)
    Green Aug (constant)
    Ethereal (constant)
    Permutations: None

    Stolen Necklace (Neck)
    CHA +10 (constant)
    Yellow Aug (constant)
    Permutations: Accuracy IX, Resistance +9, Wizardry IX, Bluff +19, Intimidate +19, Search +19, Spot +19, Natural Armor +9, Haggle +19, Listen +19, Spellcraft +19

    Shade's Hood (Head)
    Resistance +9 (constant)
    Green Aug (constant)
    Yellow Aug (constant)
    Permutations: +45 <specific> Reistance

    Nether Orb (offhand)
    Reg Aug (constant)
    Spell Lore X (constant)
    Energy Siphon XII (constant)
    Permutations: +5 <Transmutation|Conjuration|Enhancement|Necromancy| Evocation> Focus,

    Skullduggery Kit (Waist)
    Exceptional INT skill +6 (constant)
    Exceptional DEX skill +6 (constant)
    Green Aug (constant)
    Permutations: Seeker X, Tumble +20, Protection +10, Hide +20, Open Lock +20, Move Silently +20, Repair +20, Swim +20, Disable Device +20, Speed X, Dodge +10%, Hit Points +50

    Thunder and Lightning (no permutations)

    Some ML28 random loot gen that was kinda interesting:
    Ring -- Deadly X: +10 Competence melee and ranged damage; Haggle (maybe any skill?) +21.

    Bracer -- 130% Fortification; Perform (any skill?) +20

    Bracer -- +50 resist (one element); Seeker XI: +11 seeker.

    Goggles -- Wisdom +10, Resistance +11

    Goggles -- Wisdom +11, Search (any skill?) +20
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  6. #26
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Lol. I just..

    Quote Originally Posted by Melange View Post
    Any and all random effects that are in U19 are following your former example - a small number related mutations that may have different value to different players. They are tradable and sellable until equipped.
    I can just lol at this.

    Every single item has a chance to drop with EVERY SINGLE SKILL +20.

    This is TERRIBLE IN CAPS.

    A small number RELATED MUTATIONS?

    I..have no words.

    Terrible. Just horribad. Awful.

    @to whoever liked Random Named loot: this is partially your fault. Good luck grinding these **** items with Haggle +20 on them.

    EDIT: Carpone, did you see any Random gen loot with +5 <School focus> DC?
    Last edited by Wizza; 08-10-2013 at 12:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
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  7. #27
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    I am trying hard to be positive, I was very enthusiastic about these "salvage" items and they are a serious let down. My big issue is monk wraps...

    Thunder and lightning is a waste of space for an additional 0.5[W] from impact II and elemental damage that every other mob I meet may or may not be completely immune to... I lose the untyped damage, neg leveling and dc stunning boosts from grave wraps... what we need are weapons designed to fill a need not effects labeled on a dartboard and a bunch of darts...

    We just had stunning/shatter/vertigo changed to debuff resists to increase use and the class that gets their own special version of stun doesn't even get it. Most classes have the option of using what is available. Monks do not, we have to use what allows us to be centered and in the case of stunning fist... no weapons... so we need wraps with dazing. Our class granted abilities Just received tactical DC boost from sundering items.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadderly View Post
    Monks do not, we have to use what allows us to be centered and in the case of stunning fist... no weapons... so we need wraps with dazing. Our class granted abilities Just received tactical DC boost from sundering items.
    That is not necessarily true anymore. With ep pass you can use weapons other than wraps.

  9. #29
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    double post
    Last edited by Da_Most_Shady; 08-10-2013 at 01:43 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    This is what we, and +Mel, will need to improve his skills at loot creation and what we want to see from it.

    I am also very sure if +Mel had more time then the scant week or so to make these, they could and would have been better.
    I'm glad there's still one person who believes that they actually listen to us when there's overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Because if they did, these items would have been massively different. There was so much good feedback from the first iteration of items that was just ignored.

    Almost everyone asked for better items, nobody asked for more. What we got was more and and marginally (and that's a HUGE maybe) better. That should show you how much they listen.

  11. #31
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    As far as I know, Staves are weapons.



    Named items are pretty useless in this state. That's why I'd like if Evocation, Enchantment, Necromancy V can be found on Random generated Necklaces/Helms/Trinkets/Cloaks/Gloves/Boots/Bracers/Rings.
    Yes, I am well aware that some are weapons as well as some are casting implements. I am just trying to be factual in what I have seen or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  12. #32

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    Goatskin Boots (Feet):
    Speed XV (constant)
    Green Aug slot (constant)
    Colorless Aug slot (constant)
    Permutations: <STR|DEX|CON> +8, Armor +10, <Fire|Cold|Electric|Acid|Sonic> Resist +40, 115% Fortification

    I can use this - the speed XV means you compete with the EE GH Collar. So now we have 2 items that compete - which means ability for different slots. 2 Augments, excellent. Especially now when we can find skill augments. The random stuff...too many. It makes finding and grinding for the ideal boots hard. Like Fort boots. I wish it was slimmed down a little - ability should be +3 Insightful choices only or Fort. There are so many items out there with elemental resists.

    Gloves of the Master Illusionist (Hand)
    INT +11 (constant)
    Illusion Focus +5 (constant)
    Yellow Aug slot (constant)
    Permutations: None

    Not very useful. Int 11 is terrific but I think a little too much, Wish it was a Int 9 or +3 insightful Int. But it is niche for sure - if anyone can find the use for the focus

    Prismastic Cloak, Blue (Back)
    Cold Absorption 30% (constant)
    Green Aug slot (constant)
    Permutations: +10 Resistance, Natural Armor +10, +10 Competence to-hit, Bluff +20, Concentration +20, Diplomacy +20, Intimidate +20, Spot +20, Search +20, Haggle +20, Spellcraft +20, Heal +20, Listen +20, Wizardry X.

    There are blue (cold), red (fire), grey (sonic), green (acid) and violet (electric) variations of the cloak.

    Way to many random permutations. Get rid off the skills - there are other items with those skills already. And with skill augments this creates way to many useless permutations. The absorb is good. Maybe make it 35 instead since you can craft low level 33% already. (if they still stack good, if not then this is bad). But the limitation of permutations allows for unique niche cloaks. As of now you'll find tons of cloaks for pittance on the Ah that no one would like. Make it, natural armor, resistance, intimidate, spellcraft and Wiz X only. That allows for enough versatility to be interesting for many different classes.

    Consuming Darkness (Ring)
    Seeker XII (constant)
    Combat Mastery +5 (constant)
    Green Aug slot (constant)
    Permutations: None

    I just can't recommend this. It should be combat mastery 6 or 7. That would make this a serious niche item. Since future tactical skill augments are going to be red, this can't even be combined with say Stunning (now daze) skill augments for a nice combo. As such this will compete with the cloak, the drow ring and challenge spare hands - all which will be easier to get then this.

    Glorious Dawn (Ring)
    Deathblock VI (Deathblock + 18% neg energy absorb) (constant)
    Green Aug slot (constant)
    Acid Guard VIII (constant)
    Permutations: None

    I don't find a use for it. Maybe as a swap in but I'm sure I can find other items that fill all these. This need 2 great augment slots to be okay and some other features to be unique.

    Prisoner's Manacles (Wrist)
    Incite +30% (constant)
    Reinforced Fists (constant)
    Green Aug (constant)
    Colorless Aug (constant)
    Permutations: +45 <specific> resistance, +9 <STR|CON|DEX>, 120% Fortification, Armor +11

    The fort permutation would be okay but the item is fundamentally flawed. Another item with reinforced fist competing with many other items with it. 2 Augments is good, seems to be a few less permutations but it's still too many. I only have one Monk toon but I just don't think will fit it or any future build. The permutations are strong for sure, but the item itself is weak.

    Shadowsight (Goggles)
    WIS +11 (constant)
    Accuracy X (constant)
    Green Aug (constant)
    Ethereal (constant)
    Permutations: None

    Okay if only for the wis part. Lots of items and random loot with accuracy. Ethereal - lots of items already. I suggest making it a Wiz or Char permutation and add 3 displacement clickies. It would be the third item with displacement on it (if you coun't a greensteel) and it would be unique enough to consider in some circumstances. Ethereal and accuracy are going to be wasted on a Wiz item that will most likely only be primarily used by Divine classes.

    Stolen Necklace (Neck)
    CHA +10 (constant)
    Yellow Aug (constant)
    Permutations: Accuracy IX, Resistance +9, Wizardry IX, Bluff +19, Intimidate +19, Search +19, Spot +19, Natural Armor +9, Haggle +19, Listen +19, Spellcraft +19
    Too many permutations. Char 10 is good, but with only 1 augment and so many permutations, many of which you can find better on the cloaks that you can get easier - well - lets just say that you can find random loot necklaces with +11 char. Combined with a cloak with absorb and a better permutation this will have to compete with so many different better necklaces.

    Shade's Hood (Head)
    Resistance +9 (constant)
    Green Aug (constant)
    Yellow Aug (constant)
    Permutations: +45 <specific> Reistance
    This is a clicky item. And I can almost guarantee that it will only be there, in which case most will settle for the lowest epic item with the clicky.

    Nether Orb (offhand)
    Reg Aug (constant)
    Spell Lore X (constant)
    Energy Siphon XII (constant)
    Permutations: +5 <Transmutation|Conjuration|Enhancement|Necromancy| Evocation> Focus,
    Great item. This will give the Wiz orb a run for the money. I wish the augment was a purple or orange instead but at least it's red. So we can boost it with spell power. Unique.

    Skullduggery Kit (Waist)
    Exceptional INT skill +6 (constant)
    Exceptional DEX skill +6 (constant)
    Green Aug (constant)
    Permutations: Seeker X, Tumble +20, Protection +10, Hide +20, Open Lock +20, Move Silently +20, Repair +20, Swim +20, Disable Device +20, Speed X, Dodge +10%, Hit Points +50
    Probably okay for rogues but way too many permutations. Some of which are useless for a rogue (repair, Swim?) and can be found on other items. It's better to minimize permutations so you find a few different options but all fills a niche.

    Thunder and Lightning (no permutations)
    As mentioned earlier, this one is alright but no one is going to replace their better wraps with this.

    Personally I don't need tons of new items. What we should instead be looking for are unique named items. Named items should feel like they were made with a purpose. Maybe it's a single use or a average jack of all trades use.

    But they should all feel like they had 'something' about them that people want, or at least specific classes. It's never wrong to be class specific as long as you have a good reason to use it. Many choices are good, but there should still be something that sets them apart.

    Too me it feels like we have a few good items out of this expansion pack, but there's just something missing. Maybe a raid that can upgrade items - add an augment, add something that makes them better. If you look at Motu you had some items that seemed okay (like the planar stones with a stat ability) but through a upgrade path got better (combined with a relic weapon you added more things to it). And in order to be able to make the planar set you needed to unlock favor.

    This was (sorta) added to GH - with the diff tiers of raid items. Or you can upgrade dragon armor. There's always a forward goal to make something better.

    What do we have in this expansion pack? Lots of items - most fluff and a few quests. 2 Wilderness. But we don't have the one thing we really can look forward to - the upgrade. The unlock. The future goal. I mean even this expansion pack really helps people playing MOTU - with more PDK favor we now have a much greater chance to unlock top favor so we can finally get all those sets upgraded and planar sets done.

    And that's not a compelling reason to run this expansion pack in the longhaul.

    Please turbine - do not create future expansion packs without something that makes them unique. I won't be fooled like this again. You have not given me a good reason to run these quests over and over above and beyond getting favor and XP.

    Please - think vale. Think Upgrade. Take the best features you have in this game and combine them. Give us a future expansion with the same durability, versatility as Vale. When people make their own stuff, we always work for a future goal, a future dream and we get exactly what we want. And that is why it's still running and that is why people still make greensteel stuff.

  13. #33
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    ...
    The crossbow is useless - sure - its 3 diff poisons - but you're once again wasting 1 feature on keen - when most people already use improved critical. And doubleshoot? I bet most ranged already pick the Epic feat anyways. Why would I pick this over Needle? And no augment slot?

    ...
    reread the descriptions on Keen III and Impact II, they add +1/+.5[w] (respectively) now as well.

  14. #34
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    I don't mean to be that rude guy but these items are complete garbage. I honestly was excited that they were coming out with a new two hander, but come on.

    - That maul is a good 30+ damage a swing behind the esos, and that's with pulverizer. I doubt anyone is even gonna use it to stun. It's just that bad
    - The wraps are ok but I kinda feel like the should have stunning on them, since stunning is the best part of a monk and possibly an improved weapon dice increase.
    - The rings combat mastery is a few too low
    - A shadow walk clicky?
    - And also stop making + to hit on items when its completely useless
    - the cross bow? ***?
    Last edited by moo_cow; 08-10-2013 at 02:51 PM.

  15. #35
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    People still run shroud because the loot is over powered for its ml, and even at 28 people will still slot the sp item and hp item. Thats how OP they were. Make Alchemical similarly powerful and people would still be running it. As it stands its barely run anymore same with other crafting that uses similar mechanisms. Its not thr degree of certainty that keeps people wanting stuff, its the degree of OP ;p
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  16. #36
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    The loot's okay. A few good items, nothing making me drool and looks like I'll be keeping most of my stuff.

    Can't say much or it is really worth hunting.

  17. #37
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    I wouldn't compare this to anything out of Caught in the Web, this isn't raid loot. CITW itesm should be superior to anything out of this pack. Its not much of a level creep.

    Compare it to Epic Gianthold. In general the Epic Gianthold stuff is better, but not by all that much. There are now more choice for gear and that is a good thing. Personally, I hate wearing the same thing as many players because its "ideal", so yeah... no "must have" items in my opinion, but then again, I think that about most gear.
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  18. #38
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    Just a few thoughts on some of the items:

    The Thunder and Lightning Wraps :
    -Add Lightning Strike as it is Thematic.
    -Remove Impact and replace with Additional Base damage die as Per Adamantine Knuckles. More than 0.5 too btw.
    -Add Shatter 14.... quivering palm DC will now be boosted by this.

    Consuming Darkness:
    -Definitely up the Combat Mastery to +7.

    The Trapsmiths Xbow:
    -The poison should only effect one stat and not have a chance at 3 different as it doesn't become a plausible stat reducer because of this, if it is all 3 on a crit then so be it, also maybe the base threat range should be increased by 1. This would allow it to occur more often, I don't mean Keen on the item but the actual base threat range....

    The Maul:
    -First up increase its base threat range, this would go a long way to making it viable.
    -Change its 4(1d10) to maybe 3(2d8), this way it benefits more from thing like Deadly weapons and other effects that up the die increase.

    The Bastard Sword:
    -Add a Red Slot.
    -Add greater good or something similar so it deals a little more damage and also bypasses the most common DR being good.

    The Scimitar
    -Add 1 to the base threat range, simple fix or make it a *3 crit.
    -Make the 1d6 base damage 1d8 instead, if you do one of the above ad this then it will be a much nicer item.

    The Shades Hood
    -Thematically the shadow walk may seem the way to go but its way off the mark. Would be better if it was some sort of perma lesser displacement or an incorporeal proc on hit chance, if its an EE item how about a 25% chance for 5 seconds of 25% Incorparal, which can actually stack with itself up to 4 times for 100% incorporal which no longer stacks and runs out once the timer ends. With the time actually stacking too.
    -Improved deception......

    The Shuriken
    -With the change to poison procs from shruriken only occurring on crits, increase the base threat range. (this is from Ninja Spy)

    Glorious Dawn
    -Add radiance guard , fits the name thematically and actually has some use.

    Remove all the skill +20 chances from the variable loot, its not required, keep the list small and useful. (Maybe keep Disable 20 chance on the skullduggery kit)

    Basically for named weapons at these sort of levels need to look at useful effects + doing something with the base weapon itself. Things like increased base threat range, crit multipliers or vastly improved die damage is what people are looking for from end game weapons.
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  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    reread the descriptions on Keen III and Impact II, they add +1/+.5[w] (respectively) now as well.
    You're right. But honestly - I rather have something unique about them. Anytime you fight something that doesn't take stat damage this crossbow will be useless.

  20. #40
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    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    SW United States
    Posts
    2,776

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosbeak07 View Post

    Compare it to Epic Gianthold. In general the Epic Gianthold stuff is better, but not by all that much.
    That's one of my main issues with the new stuff. EGH is generally better and 3-4 levels lower.

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