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  1. #1

    Default Stealth: Acting, Even killing, in Plain Sight outside Assassinate

    One of the challenges of stealth is interacting with objects like levers, doors, runes and some casting (like summoning a flaming sphere). The following are remedies. Their invisibility remains, even while interacting. This includes attacking! Special thanks to Qezuzu for the observations about shadowscale armor clickies:

    1. Twist Magister's Fade into the Weave. Description: Active Ability: (Cooldown 2 minutes) Triggers a diplomacy effect and renders you invisible for 20 seconds. It is only Tier 2. It does not require spell points. Note that if you are already invisible when it is activated, their will be no indication that the effect is in place until you interact/attack; then the timer's status appears and a globe of energy crackles briefly about your character.
    2. Shadowdancer's Improved Invisibility. Description: Improved Invisibility: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 4 minutes) Turn invisible for [10/20/30] seconds. Attacking does not break this effect. After it wears off, you retain partial concealment for a time (grants Displacement for [30/60/90] seconds). This is nearly identical to Fade into the Weave. It is a Tier 4 enhancement and hence costly to Twist. It does, however, give a nice defensive boost when it wears off. It also has a VERY long cooldown. Due to both its cooldown and its strong defensive aspect (the displacement), it is really wasted on object-interactions.
    3. Draconic's Go out with a bang: Description: Active Ability: (Cooldown 4mins) Can only be used when HP <=50%. Nearby enemies take [1d8+8/1d10+10/1d12+12] [fire/cold/acid/electric] damage per caster level (reflex save DC 20 + 1/2 character level + INT/CHA modifier for half damage). Then trigger a diplomacy effect and become invisible for 20 seconds. Invisibility doesn't break if attacking or casting spells. This is an odd one. It is offensive and requires one to have half hp. However, like Fade into the Weave, it is only a Tier 2 twist. Not ideal for stealth.
      Note: Cost: 15 sp. Metamagic: Quicken (does not increase spell point cost)
    4. Shadar-Kai Core Enhancements. Description: Shadow Phase: You become invisible and are able to move through monsters as if you were ethereal for six seconds. (Cooldown: 1 minute). Shadow Jaunt: You become invisible and charge forward. During the jaunt, you are able to move through monsters as if you were ethereal. These effects last for six seconds. (Cooldown: 1 minute). These cooldowns can be reduced to 30 seconds with the final core ability. They are the only non-epic version of this list (though not including invisi guard below). The two drawbacks are one, that one must be Shadar Kai, and two, they last very briefly.
    5. Thunder-Forged Shadowscale Armor clickie. Even the flawed version (ML 26) comes with a shadow phase clickie (3x/day) which duplicates the effects of Fade into the Weave. Though costly (even prohibitive for some) to make, and having a high ML (as well as the possible need to swap armor briefly), this is a great way to avoid using Twists of Fate. Quezuzu demonstrated the use of these in the flaming sphere scroll thread.
    6. Though not usable intentionally, there is also the invisibility guard from the Cloak of Night, all levels. Situational.


    There are two things that one must do to remain undiscovered:
    • Do not move, as in walk or run. After interacting, return to stealth mode before moving. Strangely, even though mobs can hear you make footsteps, they do not (often, not always) hear you kill their allies next them!
    • Beware of True sight/True seeing mobs facing your direction.


    One might consider stacking back-to-back these bonuses. In SD one can twist the Draconic and Fade, using the first three to essentially remain invisible for nearly a minute. Not recommended since the draconic version requires 50% health.

    A stealthy shadar-kai with the full racial cores running in Shadowdancer and with Fade into the Weave twisted can complete many epic quests without ever being seen, including the execution of bosses. It is not necessary, though, to be shadar-kai, since Fade into the Weave's cooldown is brief in the context of stealth runs. One can farm Haunted Halls very easily in shadowdancer with Weave twisted to bypass the first door and the secret one without attracting attention!

    A stealthy player with powerful burst damage (such as manyshot, combined haste/damage boosts etc) will have a much easier time progressing past bosses. For example, the red-named Rowan Watzun of Spies in the House--one can hit Fade into the Weave, barrage him, then sneak away. His fellows will wonder what he ate to cause him to bleed and die!

    Here is a lousy pic of me pelting Edgar in Fleshmaker's (I was level 20 right after an ER and right before a TR just to test this out). As one can see, I am pelting Edgar but none of the henchmen are aware of me due Fade into the Weave. I eventually pulled him to the upper platform without the others knowing (since I ran around up there kiting, they heard my footsteps and went up to investigate):



    When I return to epics (am level 4 on my main, so it will be a while), I will update this. I am in the process of adding it to Spencerian's stealth guide (he is on break). Please post your feedback and other uses for it and any screen shots so that we may build on this technique as a community.
    Last edited by Saekee; 04-17-2016 at 03:06 PM. Reason: spelling error; added Go out with a Bang

  2. #2

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    Oh cool! Cordovan spotlighted this thread in the Chronicle 134! Thanks!

    I forgot to show this pic. I was level 20 after an ER and before my TR but wanted to illustrate these techniques. I jumped into HH in a low difficulty setting (not sure if it was EN or EH) just to show how much easier it is to bypass that first door (via the secret door route at the entrance). For those interested in using stealth to farm fragments and chests via the falling zombies, this technique allows for ZERO encounters--use fade on this door here and Improved Invisi when opening the secret door leading to the two leap points before the zombies.

    Last edited by Saekee; 03-27-2015 at 08:49 AM.
    ROGUE Part QUATRE: Prove your Stealth Skills!

    Proud Knight of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main; epic completionist), Naerfelka (farmer)

  3. #3

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    Updated with an edit to first post:

    3. Draconic's Go out with a bang: Description: Active Ability: (Cooldown 4mins) Can only be used when HP <=50%. Nearby enemies take [1d8+8/1d10+10/1d12+12] [fire/cold/acid/electric] damage per caster level (reflex save DC 20 + 1/2 character level + INT/CHA modifier for half damage). Then trigger a diplomacy effect and become invisible for 20 seconds. Invisibility doesn't break if attacking or casting spells. This is an odd one. It is offensive and requires one to have half hp. However, like Fade into the Weave, it is only a Tier 2 twist. Not ideal for stealth.
    Note: Cost: 15 sp. Metamagic: Quicken (does not increase spell point cost)

    My main is only level 9 so when I get back to epics I will add screenies of various uses. If anyone else is actually reading this, feel free to post your own screenies.
    ROGUE Part QUATRE: Prove your Stealth Skills!

    Proud Knight of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main; epic completionist), Naerfelka (farmer)

  4. #4

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    I like this. Weaponized Invisibility! Awesome!

    Definitely worthy of the stealth guide! I wonder how a Monk build would fare with such training.
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeacherSyn View Post
    I like this. Weaponized Invisibility! Awesome!

    Definitely worthy of the stealth guide! I wonder how a Monk build would fare with such training.
    Hi Spence, these techniques are very useful for those without assassinate. Hence ninjas are big beneficiaries.

    Assassins will also find these recommendations useful for interactables, decreasing aggro, and non-assassinatable mobs (especially bosses).
    ROGUE Part QUATRE: Prove your Stealth Skills!

    Proud Knight of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main; epic completionist), Naerfelka (farmer)

  6. #6

    Default Anyone else experimenting with this stuff?

    I am curious if anyone else is experimenting with this stuff.

    Thus far it seems that SD's Improved Invisibility remains even when interacting with levers etc. (need to keep testing this out) whereas Fade into the Weave deactivates with levers and doors. Both remain active/invisible for combat. So I can use my melee toon's fury charge and take out trash mobs while invisible without alerting those around them. With some caution (and avoiding footfalls out of stealth) it is a LOT of fun. I am curious to try this more with a ranged toon in Fury, so maybe in a month or two I will epic reincarnate into the Twilight Bow. (Currently I am in Fury with Twists: Improved Invisibility and Fade into the Weave--the first two in the OP.)

    I just did EE Spies--It made taking out Rowan Watzun very easy (I Faded and took out the warforged and skelly first, then cornered Watzun).

    I also have used these two techniques to destroy breakables out of stealth while remaining invisible. An assassin can do this by 'assassinating' breakables but this also works using ranged weapons. This helped me get the optional for Spies, and it is a means of moving mobs around if you do not have noisemakers.
    ROGUE Part QUATRE: Prove your Stealth Skills!

    Proud Knight of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main; epic completionist), Naerfelka (farmer)

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    I am curious if anyone else is experimenting with this stuff.

    Thus far it seems that SD's Improved Invisibility remains even when interacting with levers etc. (need to keep testing this out) whereas Fade into the Weave deactivates with levers and doors. Both remain active/invisible for combat. So I can use my melee toon's fury charge and take out trash mobs while invisible without alerting those around them. With some caution (and avoiding footfalls out of stealth) it is a LOT of fun. I am curious to try this more with a ranged toon in Fury, so maybe in a month or two I will epic reincarnate into the Twilight Bow. (Currently I am in Fury with Twists: Improved Invisibility and Fade into the Weave--the first two in the OP.)

    I just did EE Spies--It made taking out Rowan Watzun very easy (I Faded and took out the warforged and skelly first, then cornered Watzun).

    I also have used these two techniques to destroy breakables out of stealth while remaining invisible. An assassin can do this by 'assassinating' breakables but this also works using ranged weapons. This helped me get the optional for Spies, and it is a means of moving mobs around if you do not have noisemakers.
    It's been a bit since I've had my ninja Shadowdancers going, but I can confirm that Improved Invisibility is the way to go for levers and doors, as well as some offensive actions. I recall deploying lots of det-packs against some ridiculously durable red-names in "Blown to Bits" using ImpInv.

    Since the Update 22 change where enemies don't react as nastily to others being hurt near them, my little Zen Archer using ImpInv from a distance would have a serious advantage against non-True Seeing enemies. Once I get one of my two archers to Epic levels, I'll let you know.

    Are you able to move enemies around with breakables? That ability seemed totally gone with U22. Footfalls still pull, and I can see that using just a plain Ninja Spy that can go invisible at-will.
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeacherSyn View Post
    It's been a bit since I've had my ninja Shadowdancers going, but I can confirm that Improved Invisibility is the way to go for levers and doors, as well as some offensive actions. I recall deploying lots of det-packs against some ridiculously durable red-names in "Blown to Bits" using ImpInv.

    Since the Update 22 change where enemies don't react as nastily to others being hurt near them, my little Zen Archer using ImpInv from a distance would have a serious advantage against non-True Seeing enemies. Once I get one of my two archers to Epic levels, I'll let you know.

    Are you able to move enemies around with breakables? That ability seemed totally gone with U22. Footfalls still pull, and I can see that using just a plain Ninja Spy that can go invisible at-will.
    hi Spencerian! Thanks for the follow-up. Yes, Improved Invisi is REALLY good. It is just that it has a four minute cooldown. I was hoping that Fade into the Weave could help also but it seems to be a little buggy. There are times when I am attacking enemies and I lose the invisibility.

    I also look forward to ranged combat playing with these two. I am thinking of manyshot fury bursts from up to 40 seconds of invisibility between the two twists. Right now my melee must drop down into sneak if the target moves so that I do not draw attention.

    breakables definitely still draw mobs. It is the thrown weapon against just the wall or ground that does not do much anymore.
    ROGUE Part QUATRE: Prove your Stealth Skills!

    Proud Knight of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main; epic completionist), Naerfelka (farmer)

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    hi Spencerian! Thanks for the follow-up. Yes, Improved Invisi is REALLY good. It is just that it has a four minute cooldown. I was hoping that Fade into the Weave could help also but it seems to be a little buggy. There are times when I am attacking enemies and I lose the invisibility.

    I also look forward to ranged combat playing with these two. I am thinking of manyshot fury bursts from up to 40 seconds of invisibility between the two twists. Right now my melee must drop down into sneak if the target moves so that I do not draw attention.

    breakables definitely still draw mobs. It is the thrown weapon against just the wall or ground that does not do much anymore.
    I've had no luck in using any breakables as lures since U22, even when I shoot one that's next to an enemy. I didn't get a reaction when shooting an exploding barrel near one. It would seem inconsistent that some quests have "loud" breakables and others don't.
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeacherSyn View Post
    I've had no luck in using any breakables as lures since U22, even when I shoot one that's next to an enemy. I didn't get a reaction when shooting an exploding barrel near one. It would seem inconsistent that some quests have "loud" breakables and others don't.
    The one I used commonly was the breakable in Claw of Vulkoor. Since my ninjas did not have noisemakers, i would throw a shuriken at the one breakable near the penultimate scorpion (hiding up on the ledge--you are standing on it at 9:31 in this video you made and you can see the breakable on the left of the screen--not the one right next to the plate but the other one. Anyway, you were able to actually sneak directly in front of the scorpion!)

    I haven't used them much otherwise. It does seem like there is no consistency here then.
    ROGUE Part QUATRE: Prove your Stealth Skills!

    Proud Knight of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main; epic completionist), Naerfelka (farmer)

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    The one I used commonly was the breakable in Claw of Vulkoor. Since my ninjas did not have noisemakers, i would throw a shuriken at the one breakable near the penultimate scorpion (hiding up on the ledge--you are standing on it at 9:31 in this video you made and you can see the breakable on the left of the screen--not the one right next to the plate but the other one. Anyway, you were able to actually sneak directly in front of the scorpion!)

    I haven't used them much otherwise. It does seem like there is no consistency here then.
    Oh, THAT guy. The 2nd to last scorpion. I could never get a good bead on that one other than scream and leap to the button to beat the Spot check. Never thought I could make a throw and return to Sneak in time for that breakable. That video was U22. Now I know that would be completely impossible from U23 on.
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more

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