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  1. #1
    Community Member THOTHdha's Avatar
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    Default Freedom of Movement to be nerfed further?

    Now that the NDA is lifted, and things are in Open Beta, I wanted to highlight something that most people probably never noticed because it was buried in an obscure thread in a less active subsection.
    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    While your at it, did you know that freedom of movement still makes us completely immune to hold spells! Surely something has to be done about this to make enemy creation easier.
    This is on our todo list, but we aren't slated to get to it for U19.
    It's not a high priority for us to nerf you guys!
    Reading this, I am just kind of floored. I am not sure if this is simply a joke that did not translate in the slightest, or if the sarcastic post about the recent trend to remove all immunities was actually taken seriously. Normally, I would assume that anyone suggesting something like this had their tin foil hat on a bit too tight, but given that this was said in a thread about how they are intentionally removing the ability for players to even complete quests such as The Mindsunder without bringing along someone who has invested in the Search skill, I have to lean towards it being an actual response that removing the only means of being effectively immune to Holds really is something that there really is a developer intention to implement, eventually.

    Removing immunity to Poisons and Diseases created some very silly situations. Annoyances, such as Undead Forms suffering stat damage and having to go to relatively long lengths to remove it. And amusing situations such as people who were entirely too reliant on their protections learning hard lessons, such as the need to watch for Pit Fiend Poison debuffs. But ultimately, so long as you are prepared and paying attention to what is happening the impact is fairly small. And even without liking the change, the reason for it (that this was unduly restrictive on design options) is still understandable.

    Removing immunity to Holds or Commands, however, does not make sense at all. Read over the design blogs about MMO development, or even video games in general, and they nearly unanimously agree on this topic; People like playing video games, players do not like not being able to play the game because all they can do is stare at the screen with no control over their characters. Helplessness does not create interesting combat situations. It does not allow more freedom of design. All that it really does is make games feel like they are going back to the antiquated designs of EverQuest, before designers had a decade and a half of experience to learn from!

    Sticking in paid options to revive and attempt to recover from this inevitable and unavoidable death just makes this even worse. It is a return, and not in a good way, to the 80s/early 90s 'quarter feeder' arcade games. Combat helplessness lasting longer than just a moment for players is something that was well on it's way to extinction. I have no idea why it is that the DDO staff feels that it is appropriate to remove the abilities that safeguard against this. But I have to say, it is extremely disappointing to me.

  2. #2
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure it was a joke, as evidenced by the winking smiley face.


  3. #3
    The Hatchery NytCrawlr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THOTHdha View Post
    Reading this, I am just kind of floored. I am not sure if this is simply a joke that did not translate in the slightest, or if the sarcastic post about the recent trend to remove all immunities was actually taken seriously.
    I'm not Purple, but I am pretty sure it was a bit of both.

    It's how I would have responded anyways.

  4. #4
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THOTHdha View Post
    Reading this, I am just kind of floored. I am not sure if this is simply a joke that did not translate in the slightest, or if the sarcastic post about the recent trend to remove all immunities was actually taken seriously. me.
    It was sarcasm.
    <-Curelite Bottling Company->

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude
    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  5. #5
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danotmano1998 View Post
    It was sarcasm.
    Hopefully a dev will chime in here, I'd like to think it was sarcasm, but some of the recent changes leaves room for a reasonable doubt to it imo.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by danotmano1998 View Post
    It was sarcasm.
    I agree everyone knows that nerfing us is their #1 priority!

  7. #7
    Community Member THOTHdha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danotmano1998 View Post
    It was sarcasm.
    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    I'm pretty sure it was a joke, as evidenced by the winking smiley face.
    The cheesy grin emote is tied to his comment that nerfing players is not a high priority. The statement that it is on the whiteboard to do eventually still stands.

    I have to admit, this kind of change does sound too ridiculous to be true. But, once again, this was a side comment made in a thread explaining the new system change that makes it so you can no longer complete quests that have secret doors, such as The Mindsunder, unless you have someone with Search skills in the party. Which is every bit as ridiculous.
    Last edited by THOTHdha; 08-09-2013 at 02:46 PM.

  8. #8
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THOTHdha View Post
    The cheesy grin emote is tied to his comment that nerfing players is not a high priority. The statement that it is on the whiteboard to do eventually still stands.

    I have to admit, this kind of change does sound too ridiculous to be true. But, once again, this was a side comment made in a thread explaining the new system change that makes it so you can no longer complete quests that have secret doors, such as The Mindsunder, unless you have someone with Search skills in the party. Which is every bit as ridiculous.
    Isn't there another lever in the bunk bed area by the shrine in mindsunder that opens the secret door with the orange name guy and the lever to get to the end fight? Or maybe the lever by the bunk beds itself opens the passage to the end of the quest?

    According to the wiki map (and my memory) there is such a lever.


    Tell me again about how you can't complete mindsunder without a searcher in party?

  9. #9
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THOTHdha View Post
    The cheesy grin emote is tied to his comment that nerfing players is not a high priority. The statement that it is on the whiteboard to do eventually still stands.

    I have to admit, this kind of change does sound too ridiculous to be true. But, once again, this was a side comment made in a thread explaining the new system change that makes it so you can no longer complete quests that have secret doors, such as The Mindsunder, unless you have someone with Search skills in the party. Which is every bit as ridiculous.
    Maybe you should go back and read again, or for the first time, every DEV post in the Secret Door Thread.

    Until then, your italics part is blatantly false/lie, just so the community knows.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Maybe you should go back and read again, or for the first time, every DEV post in the Secret Door Thread.

    Until then, your italics part is blatantly false/lie, just so the community knows.
    Having read every single developer post in that thread, as well as all of them on Lamannia, I have to say.... you need to get a clue before you say anything like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    Some players have asked for Church and Cult and Keeper's Sanctuary's door DCs to be reduced, but it looks like there are as many players who want them to stay the same. So for the time being, we're keeping their settings as described in my original post quoted above.
    DCs will not be adjusted, now that there is a code freeze before this goes live, and there are quests out there that can not be completed if you can not find the secret door. And DSD clickies/items will no longer do so. The OP's example may or may not stand, but that is irrelevant. What is relevant is the nature of the DDO forums any more.

    I had not intended to make a big exit post, about how the design directions chosen for this game are burying it. I had intended to just never log in again, until I saw this post. Someone has brought the fact that the developers seem to have the intention to remove player's ability to nullify Hold spells to the community's attention. This is a rather radical change, that deserves community input. And instead, the response is mostly fanboy trolling, about irrelevant secondary points. The design decisions made for the last year now may be slowly dissolving DDO, causing players to slowly bleed away. But the massive community changes over the last four years, the toxic nature of the forums now with protracted battles of zerg vs casual and ridiculous accusations on both sides rather than any kind of actual discussion, it is what is hastening that process of flushing things down the drain. People, accurately it seems, complain about a lack of developer understanding of the core player base of DDO. But how are they supposed to find out what the core player base is when the majority of the community that shows interest in interacting with them behave like adolescent idiots who are impressed at their ability to be vulgar on the internet?

  11. #11
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    ...People, accurately it seems, complain about a lack of developer understanding of the core player base of DDO. But how are they supposed to find out what the core player base is when the majority of the community that shows interest in interacting with them behave like adolescent idiots who are impressed at their ability to be vulgar on the internet?
    +1 to you sir. Well said indeed.

    that actually made me laugh, but mostly because it's true.


  12. #12
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    Someone has brought the fact that the developers seem to have the intention to remove player's ability to nullify Hold spells to the community's attention. This is a rather radical change, that deserves community input. And instead, the response is mostly fanboy trolling, about irrelevant secondary points.
    The "secondary point" is not irrelevant... Most of took that post as humor.

    Someone else pointed out that maybe it's not humor because the devs DO make ridiculous changes, such as making mindsunder impossible to complete!

    It is completely relevant to point out that the devs have NOT made mindsunder impossible to complete with a searcher, so that's person's point is way-off-base.

    And for the record, what you call "fanboy trolling", I call correcting overexaggerations and distortions from people who apparently really really hate a game they play 4 hours day. Weird.

    ridiculous accusations on both sides rather than any kind of actual discussion
    Maybe I'm part of the problem... but I don't usually dismiss other's points. I usually respond to them directly. It's usually like this.

    Someone: Game is so full of bugs it's unplayable.

    Me: I can play the game. It's still pretty fun. Having to sometimes jump on a ladder or close a conversation tree when leaving my ship can be slightly annoying, but the other 99.9% of the game still works pretty well.
    Someone: You're just a fanboi.


    So who is avoiding any kind of actual discussion here? Not the fanbois, I think.
    Last edited by Thrudh; 08-09-2013 at 05:32 PM.
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    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  13. #13
    2014 DDO Players Council
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    I heard about this. I am seriously hoping it's not true. Another useless spell.
    ~Thelanis ~ Khyber ~

  14. #14
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THOTHdha View Post
    The cheesy grin emote is tied to his comment that nerfing players is not a high priority. The statement that it is on the whiteboard to do eventually still stands.

    I have to admit, this kind of change does sound too ridiculous to be true. But, once again, this was a side comment made in a thread explaining the new system change that makes it so you can no longer complete quests that have secret doors, such as The Mindsunder, unless you have someone with Search skills in the party. Which is every bit as ridiculous.
    I've heard people make this reference to mindsunder several times. Isn't there a lever to open every secret door in that quest? I've completed it many times without using detect secret door or searching.

    Edit: In deference to Rest, i did not make it to your post before i felt compelled to reply.
    Last edited by FestusHood; 08-09-2013 at 05:43 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    I heard about this. I am seriously hoping it's not true. Another useless spell.
    They didn't nuke it from orbit enough when they adjusted earthgrab.

    I get that many things in DDO don't work as they were intended in PnP, and often don't even make logical sense. But that's part of translating a thing in from one medium to another. Those are things that should be accepted and moved past, rather than "fixed" years later. But we've known forever that the devs do not play the game the way we do, with the same goals and motivations.

    On the plus side, now that we've got more mid-level boot options for grease that'll free up another assumed spell slot for the FVS.

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