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Thread: S&B Tanking...

  1. #21
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcedes View Post
    i agree that post enh-pass its trash...but i also see holding aggro becoming nearly impossible
    If a tree falls on a paladin in a forest and nobody is there to laugh at him, does anybody care? As in does it matter since I see the style dying off completely.

    Kensais can switch to Air-Stance when in a tank-n-splank situation so they won't pull aggro. They don't need the PRR when not getting hit and (I think) Air is more DPS anyway.

  2. #22
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcedes View Post
    Intimidate is a piece of **** half the time. I see the following scenario unfold regularly:
    Have aggro. Lose aggro. Hit intim. Get aggro. Lose aggro before the intim icon is even faded from above the mobs head.
    How boring. I really think that what alot of people want is a watching tv kind of game. As in tanking raid boss X and I start swinging and everybody else starts fighting on the back side, next turn on auto attack and go make a sandwich, chat with the wife, check on the kids and come back 5-10 minutes later. Is that the kind of game that you want? If they made it so that DDO became that sort of game then raids become incredibly more boring. Hate lockdowns are bad for DDO because they mean less skill, less stiumulation, and less variety. So be upfront and if you want that type of game say so because you keep re posting this jibber jabber.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    How boring. I really think that what alot of people want is a watching tv kind of game. As in tanking raid boss X and I start swinging and everybody else starts fighting on the back side, next turn on auto attack and go make a sandwich, chat with the wife, check on the kids and come back 5-10 minutes later. Is that the kind of game that you want? If they made it so that DDO became that sort of game then raids become incredibly more boring. Hate lockdowns are bad for DDO because they mean less skill, less stiumulation, and less variety. So be upfront and if you want that type of game say so because you keep re posting this jibber jabber.
    how does, intim doesnt work well somehow translate to "i want to have lockdown aggro and go make a sandwich"? this is just an unintelligible attempt at trolling someone simply for having an opinion different than yours. never once have i asked for "lockdown" aggro. you have used the term a few times. i dont mind losing aggro from time to time. but when im losing aggro faster than the icons from my last intim disappear from above the mobs head, there is something off a bit there. especially considering the long cooldown before i can try it again.

    and seriously ***? why are u trying to make this so personal and confrontational? insults are not needed nor are they productive.
    Last edited by Alcedes; 08-12-2013 at 08:50 AM.

  4. #24
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    A good tank should be able to 95% lockdown a single target. Currently they can maybe do 5-10%, that's called not worth a party slot.

  5. #25
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    A good tank should be able to 95% lockdown a single target. Currently they can maybe do 5-10%, that's called not worth a party slot.
    Flat out that is not what I am seeing in game so yeah I am calling out the OP because good tanks are quite frankly maintaining aggro a high % of the time. They just added an additional Two handed Fighting feat which benefits sword and board dps, and gave more options for dps for S&B as well as the other combat styles so not seeing this so called hate problem. I can add even more hate to my builds if I wanted to or if that is necessary as could other tanks so shrug.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    A good tank should be able to 95% lockdown a single target. Currently they can maybe do 5-10%, that's called not worth a party slot.
    please clarify. Trash or Boss?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Flat out that is not what I am seeing in game so yeah I am calling out the OP because good tanks are quite frankly maintaining aggro a high % of the time. They just added an additional Two handed Fighting feat which benefits sword and board dps, and gave more options for dps for S&B as well as the other combat styles so not seeing this so called hate problem. I can add even more hate to my builds if I wanted to or if that is necessary as could other tanks so shrug.
    fighter tanks are in their own little world. try a pally tank.

  8. #28
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcedes View Post
    please clarify. Trash or Boss?
    Single target, probably means boss, could mean trash but there aren't really cases where the trash needs to be tanked ever in ddo.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Single target, probably means boss, could mean trash but there aren't really cases where the trash needs to be tanked ever in ddo.
    i hate to do it, but i have to agree with Matt. if you are running with tanks who are only holding aggro for 5-10% of a boss fight, u need to find new tanks to run with. sorry man

  10. #30
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcedes View Post
    i hate to do it, but i have to agree with Matt. if you are running with tanks who are only holding aggro for 5-10% of a boss fight, u need to find new tanks to run with. sorry man
    I prefer to just run without and have a jugg or some other high dps toon with some self healing tank now. Things die quicker as well.

  11. #31
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    A good tank should be able to 95% lockdown a single target. Currently they can maybe do 5-10%, that's called not worth a party slot.
    Absolute nonsense.

  12. #32
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcedes View Post
    fighter tanks are in their own little world. try a pally tank.
    If you want to say "pallies suck and need love" I'll be all over that band-wagon. But this is about S&B tanks which include fighters.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    If you want to say "pallies suck and need love" I'll be all over that band-wagon. But this is about S&B tanks which include fighters.
    S&B tanks need love.

    pallies as a CLASS need love

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodnose13 View Post
    first of all what should change is how hate is generated, instead per damage to per hit (each hit would count the same amount of hate + bonuses from items or skills), then haveing 101% of hate gen and decent chance to hit would be enough to stay on top of enemy hate list. its the same kind of BS as with dps, more and more and more bonuses to the point it gets out of hand, and even more hard to track.
    IIRC, one of the ways that the devs chose to address twf threat tanking was to rework the intimidation rule. I'd think by this time that change in the rule has outlived it's usefulness. In other words I am thinking there needs to be a reexamination of the intim rule.

    While forcing the tank to maintain dps as opposed to an intim turtle was an appropriate change at that time, it is no longer. Not sure what would fall into the realm of an appropriate adjustment however without encouraging turtle tanks again. Perhaps a multiplied threat adjustment increase with it's use?

    As it stands now, the best options for aggro lockdown in high dps groups for us centers around triangulating a raid boss with burst dps, thereby confusing it. Waiting for a tank to establish aggro wastes time. Waiting for a tank to re-establish aggro additionally wastes time. Time is resources for the blue bars. Therefore the concept of having a good stalwart or defender take TO on EE is unattractive.
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  15. #35
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcedes View Post
    S&B tanks need love.
    Agreed, but after tanking everything in the game on the highest difficulty I disagree with you as to what is the issue. I don't think threat is the problem on live and I don't think it'll be an issue post U19 unless people are stupid in stay in earth-stance when they shouldn't be.

    My issue is the defense granted to S&B tankers is not enough. Period. They need MOAR!


    Quote Originally Posted by Alcedes View Post
    pallies as a CLASS need love
    Pallies are so schtuppted with the U19 changes that I don't even know where to start.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Agreed, but after tanking everything in the game on the highest difficulty I disagree with you as to what is the issue. I don't think threat is the problem on live and I don't think it'll be an issue post U19 unless people are stupid in stay in earth-stance when they shouldn't be.
    we will see. i think with Mornh and the dwarven racial tree, you are probably right honestly. im willing to give it a try, thats for sure. although, considering that it will be around 45 points in the tanking tree and a minimum of 21 points to take advantage of the dwarf mace/axe bonuses, i am doubting that i will have enough points left to gain anything meaningful from knight of the chalice tree

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    My issue is the defense granted to S&B tankers is not enough. Period. They need MOAR!
    i couldnt agree more.


    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Pallies are so schtuppted with the U19 changes that I don't even know where to start.
    nobody does. pallies are completley borked now. and the xpac only seems to be exasperating the issue.
    Last edited by Alcedes; 08-12-2013 at 09:40 AM.

  17. #37
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    lol. i refreshed and saw kookiekobold had posted on a thread. i foolishly let myself get excited and think he actually read a S&B thread. alas, it was dragonmarks.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Agreed, but after tanking everything in the game on the highest difficulty I disagree with you as to what is the issue. I don't think threat is the problem on live and I don't think it'll be an issue post U19 unless people are stupid in stay in earth-stance when they shouldn't be.

    My issue is the defense granted to S&B tankers is not enough. Period. They need MOAR!
    i would agree with this but...moar, like... +500 AC and +200 PRR ? And hit stupidly high numbers like 750 AC when they could just lower the to-hit numbers of mobs on EE ? (i saw someone saying this many times, i actually think i've stolen that idea from you)

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Pallies are so schtuppted with the U19 changes that I don't even know where to start.
    Pallies need a 3rd REALLY good tree, and maybe some changes in the KotC.

    and we need S&B combat style feats. Why do we get THF and TWF and no love for shield users ? (shield mastery is ok, but not enough IMO and imp. shield bash is kinda meh)

  19. #39
    Community Member die's Avatar
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    Once again another thread about why every class should be the same . Yes this is what you are saying. If s/b toons had high dps and high survivability why play any thing else there has too be a trade off period or why even play the game? oh my wizzy isn't as good as the sorc oh my ranger isn't as good as a fighter blah blah. ITS cALLLED tEAM Work every class brings something too the table I swear this new generation is about a lazy bunch of turds. give me give me Go ride a Bike man get a life or just leave the game really your one reason I just solo now for the last couple years I don't need you too finish a raid my pally solo's them oh yea Pallys for the win.
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  20. #40
    Community Member die's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by die View Post
    Once again another thread about why every class should be the same . Yes this is what you are saying. If s/b toons had high dps and high survivability why play any thing else there has too be a trade off period or why even play the game? oh my wizzy isn't as good as the sorc oh my ranger isn't as good as a fighter blah blah. ITS cALLLED tEAM Work every class brings something too the table I swear this new generation is about a lazy bunch of turds. give me give me Go ride a Bike man get a life or just leave the game really your one reason I just solo now for the last couple years I don't need you too finish a raid my pally solo's them oh yea Pallys for the win.
    OH oNE LAST THING "pOINts finger and utters the word" "Die"
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    Xoriat Born~Doompriest~Doom~DoomTusk~Legion of Doom~Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

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