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  1. #21
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Isn't this pretty much already in DDO in the form of the Draconic Incarnation ED?



    I'm betting on Acolyte of the Skin, since they've had that in their sights for a while now.
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  2. #22
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    I'm betting on Acolyte of the Skin, since they've had that in their sights for a while now.
    Well considering every race was supposed to get their own unique PRE and a bunch of other prestiges were cancelled and replaced with different ones (ie. no virtuoso) their obviously fine with changing their plans...also Kotc+HOTD and Tempeset+Dervish shows they have no issue sprikling in abilitites from multiple prestiges into oen (ie/ DD+Swift Blade)

    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    Isn't this pretty much already in DDO in the form of the Draconic Incarnation ED?
    If thats supposed to be Dragon Disiple I've very disappointed while all the abilities were likely inspired by DD its missing ALOT of the key abilities...also its an Epic Destiny which means you cant use it until Lvl 20 and must be paid for. (Note: I own EDs so this wont affect me)
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 09-09-2013 at 10:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  3. #23
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    So your already incredibly biased and apparently a really annoying/controlling DM as well



    It would be like every other "transformation" in DDO it wouldn't need to be a new model it would just be an aura/minor visual effect/overlay of some sort similar to Savants or Palemasters so I disagree it would be "too much work" as otherwise it would have been too much work for those prestige classes.

    As for it being OP...some actual input/reasoning would be nice.
    By banning splat books I saved myself money and made my game easier to run and balance I had so many people wanting to play I had to turn many away.

    As to your idea being OP its blantly so so needs no elaboration. and as has been pointed out technically we already have them even though they arent to your liking.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  4. #24
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    My thoughts:

    - Name it <Color> Dragon Disciple and have it like Savants where there's different versions for each element with slight differences.

    Ok

    - Natural Armor and PRR Increases to reflect your skin becoming dragon scale hard (probably have it increase for every core ability purchased)

    Do it as defender's trees (pally and fighter), u get 5 AC + 5 prr for each core u take (even could give something for each point spent on tree, note that 5 is only an option)

    - Bonuses to Str, Con OR Charisma.

    Like kensai, can choose between 3

    - Breath Weapon (Element based on color choice)

    No ty, it's not draconic ED.

    - Elemental Resistance (eventual immunity) based on color chosen

    No ty, it's not draconic ED

    - Some immunities based on chosen color (similar to how palemaster gets undead-like immunities)

    Ok, like tier 4(or was 5?) from savants, oh wait, u already have em in the same class but different pre, guess that no ty

    - Some sort of "Dragon Form" like the Palemasters forms...probably is where some of the abilities suggested here are accessed/gained. No need to change healing type since most Dragons are healed by positive energy...although it would be a thematic capstone to be healed by your chosen color/element

    Something like 5 times/rest 1 min duration, and having 50 resist is more than you can expect from a pre.

    - Sorc Level counts as 1/3, 1/2, a full fighter (tier allotment up to devs) for purpose of feat pre-reqs.

    Ok with bab, not with feat prereqs, so it would be like a partial tenser permanent, ofc this would be placed in core abilities.

    - Grant extended duration to Haste, rage and tenser's tranformation eventually culimntaing in a tier 5 ability that makes them last until rest and be undispelable (even immune to beholder antimagic cone)

    I don't see a real reason/relation to do so, permahaste is a lvl 27 feat, so that suggestion can be forgotten in the oblivion.

    - Spell Resistance

    Ok, not stackable with drow, obvious reasons

    - Ways to reduce or eliminate ASF either by ASF value or just by armor type (and grant proficiency)...like Tier 1 could nullify ASF for Light Armor/Light Shields, Tier 3 Medium Armor and Large Shields, Tier 5 Heavy Armor and Tower Shield (along with the relevant proficiencies)

    ! thing is reducing ASF, another is nullifying, especially heavy armor and tower shield, when you're a DD can't see why should u use em, In fact i would restrict the benefits of the trees to light armors or less.

    - Some sort of Dragon roar ability that triggers an intimidate (does trigger intim cooldown) and cause cause fear (shaken on save)

    Y, also this skill could be counted as fear effect for the draconic incarnation tier 1 skilll.

    - Damage Reduction/ X, where X is based on color (ie. Black = Adamantine, White = Crystal)

    If u're using chromatic dragons, their benefits are elemental, if u use metallic dragons, their benefits are physical, so no ty, u already have ac and prr.

    - Toggle abilty that allows you to expend Mana per strike to deal extra damage of your colors element (or maybe just a Single Element buff similar to Artificer "Elemental Weapon" except it stacks with any spells of that nature...probably part of the "Dragon Form")

    Can't see a relation with sp/spells per day and melee, really, guess that's a bad idea too.

    - Spellpower bonus based on color choice (probably per point spent in tree kind of thing)

    Ofc, like savants but w/o reduction in the opposite element.

    - Unarmed gains x[W] and piercing to reflect growing claws. (amount of increase up to devs...make it nice enough to matter though)

    Could simply modify unarmed damage to piercing instead of being bludgeoning (oh wait, just recalled we are using bludgeoning in a wrong way in ddo XD), wouldn't increase unarmed dice because u're a disciple, not a dragon, could include an increase of unarmed damage when using dragon form (and after spending some ap to get that benefit)



    This way we would have a close-to-balanced tree for enhancements.
    psykopeta - hoarding pl, for the sake of hoarding, the day i become ubercompletionist will be because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS i'm not a pro, maybe if i reincarnate in RL...

  5. #25
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    My thoughts:

    - Natural Armor and PRR Increases to reflect your skin becoming dragon scale hard (probably have it increase for every core ability purchased)

    Do it as defender's trees (pally and fighter), u get 5 AC + 5 prr for each core u take (even could give something for each point spent on tree, note that 5 is only an option)
    Makes sense

    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    - Bonuses to Str, Con OR Charisma.

    Like kensai, can choose between 3
    Yes inside the tree it makes sense like the other classes but the bonuses I was refering to is ones it would gain from his/her growing draconic capabilities similar to the PM forms except can't be turned off.

    If you think so minor sta boosts are OP you should go complain about fatesinger it gets a bunch of boosts, void dragon for monk as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    - Sorc Level counts as 1/3, 1/2, a full fighter (tier allotment up to devs) for purpose of feat pre-reqs.

    Ok with bab, not with feat prereqs, so it would be like a partial tenser permanent, ofc this would be placed in core abilities.
    Why not, it wouldn't be OP just open up a few decent feats.

    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    - Grant extended duration to Haste, rage and tenser's tranformation eventually culimntaing in a tier 5 ability that makes them last until rest and be undispelable (even immune to beholder antimagic cone)

    I don't see a real reason/relation to do so, permahaste is a lvl 27 feat, so that suggestion can be forgotten in the oblivion.
    This is actually pulled from swiftblade (the devs have shown sprinkling abilities from other prestiges is something their open too) as for your "Permahaste" being a lvl 27 feat...thats true but only non-arcane melees would take this because arcane melees already have the spell...increasing the duration to permanent and making in undispellable is only a convenience for someone who can already cast these spells

    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    - Spell Resistance

    Ok, not stackable with drow, obvious reasons
    Drows Spell resistance has been nerfed for reasons like this...note that occult slayer barbs have spell resistance equal to their con mod and that stacks with drow sr. As for the ability I'd be fine if it was an SLA

    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    - Some sort of Dragon roar ability that triggers an intimidate (does trigger intim cooldown) and cause cause fear (shaken on save)

    Y, also this skill could be counted as fear effect for the draconic incarnation tier 1 skilll.
    because half-dragons roaring is thematic and part of the PnP prestige class and so what if it has synergy with a ED alot of PrEs do

    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    - Damage Reduction/ X, where X is based on color (ie. Black = Adamantine, White = Crystal)

    If u're using chromatic dragons, their benefits are elemental, if u use metallic dragons, their benefits are physical, so no ty, u already have ac and prr.
    Again this is based off of the PnP prestige class so this is just pulled from there...personally I think DR is kinda useless so i could care less if its not added

    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    - Toggle abilty that allows you to expend Mana per strike to deal extra damage of your colors element (or maybe just a Single Element buff similar to Artificer "Elemental Weapon" except it stacks with any spells of that nature...probably part of the "Dragon Form")

    Can't see a relation with sp/spells per day and melee, really, guess that's a bad idea too.
    I was thinking that dragons attacks are part magical part physical so using your MP made sense but I'd be ok if they gained a stance to apply their relevant element to their attack (no extra damage just the element) twas just thematic my friend but I wouldn't be bothered if it was omitted

    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    - Spellpower bonus based on color choice (probably per point spent in tree kind of thing)

    Ofc, like savants but w/o reduction in the opposite element.
    I'd be fine with the opposite element being reduced


    A few other notes

    - I fail to see how DD having abilities similar to savant or DI makes it an automatic dismissal...Archmage and Magister have similar abilities so does FvS and Exalted Angel and there's nothing wrong with that...actually having interesting synergies is a good thing...my hope is for a Kobold -> DD -> DI

    - Saying "your a disciple not a dragon" makes me think your not familiar with the source material...the whole goal of a DD is to eventually become at least dragon-like if not a full fledged Dragon

    - Limiting dragon form to x/day for a minute makes no sense its not a spell its a permanent change...it should scale with each core ability taken like how the savant visual effect does. So anything related to the draconic abilities is related to that dragon breath, wings (ff+jump+balance bonus & Monk-like Jump clickie), piercing unarmed & +[w] as well as elemental weakness/immunity based on color

    - I agree with heavy armor/shield bit i personally don't think it fits but its a popular request so i added it. I'd rather see it as part of Eldritch Knight if its ever added (prob as a wiz pre)


    Now all that said I'm entirely open to discussion as long as it keeps within the theme of the original prestige class and its strong enough that it wont be ignored.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 09-10-2013 at 04:12 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  6. #26
    Community Member dlsidhe's Avatar
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    Dragon Disciple...I like it. Actually more than AotS.

    So, to take a swing at the thing, inspired by http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeCl...onDisciple.htm -

    Core (normal progression rules, blah blah blah):

    1: Initiate - For every core ability, you gain +1 natural armor and +3PRR. For every point spent in the tree, you earn .75USP. Novitiate - Your unarmed attacks now do 1d6 slashing/piercing damage. When unarmed, you gain a BAB equivalent to 3/4 of your sorcerer levels and monk attack animations

    2: Elevation I: You choose a draconic heritage and gain +10 spell power in the associated spells. Your unarmed attacks are now considered magical for DR purposes.

    3: Novitiate: Your unarmed attacks now deal 1.5W damage, and deal an additional 2-8 damage based on your choice of heritage. This additional damage cannot process more than once per second.

    4: Elevation II: You gain an additional +10 spell power based on your selection of heritage. You may fly short distances, similar to a monk's abundant step (cost: 10sp, 5 times, recharges, blah blah blah).

    5: Aspirant: Your unarmed attacks now deal 2W damage, and deal an additional 3-24 slashing damage on critical strikes.

    6: Draconic Disciple: You gain +2 charisma. You gain an additional +10 spell power based on your selection of heritage. Your unarmed attacks now deal 2.5W damage, and deal an additional 3-24 elemental damage on critical. You may assume a draconic shroud. Draconic Shroud: +2 strength, +4 constitution, +2 charisma, +5 bonus to armor, +25 bonus to PRR, and 100% fortification. Nearby enemies must make a DC22 will save or subject to a fear affect in your presence. Enemies who make the save are considered shaken unless immune to all fear affects.

    Tier 1:

    Walking Weapon [2AP/tier]: You gain 2.5/5/7.5% melee attack speed, and 3/6/10% base movement speed.

    Impressive Visage: You gain +2/4/6 diplomacy/haggle/bluff.

    Terrifying Visage: You gain +2/4/6 intimidate. Tier 3: You gain an additional +1DC to all fear-based effects.

    Spell Criticals [2AP]: You gain a +1% critical chance for all spells.

    Tier 2:

    Talking Weapon [2AP, requires Walking Weapon of equal tier]: You roar, and all nearby enemies must make a DC 18/22/24 will save or be under a fear effect. Tier 2: enemies who make the save are still shaken. Tier 3: Enemies must make an additional save or be paralyzed with fear.

    Spell Criticals [2AP]: +1% critical blah...

    Scaly: You gain an additional +1/2/3 natural armor. Tier 5: You gain DR 4/Slashing

    Tier 3:

    Draconic Immunities: You gain +2/4/6 saves against poison and disease. Tier 2: You gain blindness immunity. Tier 3: You no longer fail poison/disease saves on a roll of 1.

    Shiny [requires Scaly, 2AP]: You gain SR equivalent to your charisma modifier plus 2/3/4. Tier 3: You gain +1DC to all enchantment spells.

    Walking Wall (requires Talking Weapon, 2AP): You gain +5/10/15PRR

    Spell Criticals [2AP]: I'm not writing it again.

    Stat Raise: Str/Con/Cha

    Tier 4:

    Draconic Fortitude (2AP): You gain 2/4/6 to all fortitude saves. Tier 3: You do not automatically fail fort saves on a 1.

    Motivational Speaker (requires Walking Wall, 2AP): Your roar grants companions and hirelings a fear bonus (new type!) of +2 strength, +2 con and +2 to fortitude saves for 1 minute.

    Spell Criticals: ...

    Stat Raise: Str/Con/Cha

    Tier 5:

    Draconic Fighting (2AP): You gain 2% doublestrike when unarmed. On vorpal, you perform an AoE breath attack dealing 6d8 elemental damage to enemies in a large cone in front of you. DC 10+Half Character Level+Charisma modifier, considered to be an evocation spell.

    Hardened Scales (requires Shiny, 2AP): You gain 6 natural armor, and 10 PRR.

    Hard To Resist (requires Hardened Scales, Spell Critical tier 4, 2AP): You gain +1 to evocation or conjuration DCs.

    Hard To Handle (Requires Hardened Scales, 2AP): You gain +1 to saves against enchantments, and are immune to web, earthgrab, trip, and any other physical crowd control effects.
    Last edited by dlsidhe; 09-10-2013 at 08:40 AM. Reason: Spotted something crazy OP
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    Naeryna (Sun Elf 24 FvS Evoker) // Dianocia (Drow 11 Buckler o' Swashes) // Valissia (Elf 22 Shiradi Druid)
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  7. #27
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlsidhe View Post
    Snipped due to length...awesome stuff though
    Couple notes:

    - Adding the unarmed animation is a nice touch, so is the piercing/slash damage addition similar to druid wolf/bear forms

    - Slight adjustment to the damage increase have it say do +0.5[W] damage as opposed to 1.5 times damage just to keep in line with everything else

    - I love your ability names

    - I'd like to see either Elevation II (Core 4) or the "Draconic Shroud" add a Feather Fall Toggle.

    - I don't really like the name "Draconic Shroud" the thing about DD is you actually become part dragon as opposed to "taking on dragon-like aspects" not sure what I'd call it though to be honest (Dragon Blooded??). I definitely agree with having it as a capstone though instead of say a tier 5 ability.

    - The "Scaly" abilities DR bypass pre-req should be based on color choice as opposed to just slashing (ie. White = Crystal, Blue = Mithral, Green = Adamantine)

    - I don't know if it would be OP but maybe add +1 HP per point spent to the Core 1 (as well as the .75 USP)

    - I'd love the way you have breath weapons proc on vorpals and the extra damage based on your heritage (Novitiate)...I would like to see these be toggles though because otherwise certain color DDs will be a liability in some content (ie. A Red DD in Chains of Flames)

    Other than that It's definitely pretty solid imo...I mean it doesn't have element resist nor the extended buff durations but it has a whole lot of highly flavourful (and useful) stuff so I can ignore that quite easily especially since both of those abilities are merely convenience...good job

    Sidenote: I'd also like to see this added as a Bard PrE as well since their short a prestige class now.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 09-10-2013 at 01:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  8. #28
    Community Member dlsidhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Couple notes:

    - Adding the unarmed animation is a nice touch, so is the piercing/slash damage addition similar to druid wolf/bear forms

    - Slight adjustment to the damage increase have it say do +0.5[W] damage as opposed to 1.5 times damage just to keep in line with everything else

    - I love your ability names

    - I'd like to see either Elevation II (Core 4) or the "Draconic Shroud" add a Feather Fall Toggle.

    - I don't really like the name "Draconic Shroud" the thing about DD is you actually become part dragon as opposed to "taking on dragon-like aspects" not sure what I'd call it though to be honest (Dragon Blooded??). I definitely agree with having it as a capstone though instead of say a tier 5 ability.

    - The "Scaly" abilities DR bypass pre-req should be based on color choice as opposed to just slashing (ie. White = Crystal, Blue = Mithral, Green = Adamantine)

    - I don't know if it would be OP but maybe add +1 HP per point spent to the Core 1 (as well as the .75 USP)

    - I'd love the way you have breath weapons proc on vorpals and the extra damage based on your heritage (Novitiate)...I would like to see these be toggles though because otherwise certain color DDs will be a liability in some content (ie. A Red DD in Chains of Flames)

    Other than that It's definitely pretty solid imo...I mean it doesn't have element resist nor the extended buff durations but it has a whole lot of highly flavourful (and useful) stuff so I can ignore that quite easily especially since both of those abilities are merely convenience...good job

    Sidenote: I'd also like to see this added as a Bard PrE as well since their short a prestige class now.
    Geeeargh! I got so tied up with the melee bonuses I forgot about elemental resists.

    Yeah, "Dragon Shroud" sucks, but it was early. I'd go with "Draconic Form" or something - and add an inherent 20 (appropriate elemental resist) and featherfalling. That makes sense. I agree with add .5W damage per core ability. I'm more inclined to add 5hp per core ability than one per point spent.

    And OF COURSE this has to be for bards too. The most fun I ever had in NWN was being a draconic disciple bard.

    ETA: On toggling the dragon-breath vorpal, I agree that should be an option, but there's another side to it - the DD has more flexibility. To use the chains o' flame scenario, in that case you change strategies. A red DD could intimidate and tank, and then cast non-fire spells without the penalties of a fire savant. They wouldn't be as potent as a savant, but it's more spellcasting flexibility and greater survivability at the cost of power.
    Last edited by dlsidhe; 09-10-2013 at 06:12 PM.
    Thelanis - Dragons of the Shire
    Naeryna (Sun Elf 24 FvS Evoker) // Dianocia (Drow 11 Buckler o' Swashes) // Valissia (Elf 22 Shiradi Druid)
    Nae haz a story. Go read it.

  9. #29
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlsidhe View Post
    Geeeargh! I got so tied up with the melee bonuses I forgot about elemental resists.
    Heh no worries you got like 98% of it right

    Quote Originally Posted by dlsidhe View Post
    Yeah, "Dragon Shroud" sucks, but it was early. I'd go with "Draconic Form" or something - and add an inherent 20 (appropriate elemental resist) and featherfalling. That makes sense. I agree with add .5W damage per core ability. I'm more inclined to add 5hp per core ability than one per point spent.
    Maybe we should run a thread for a cool name

    Quote Originally Posted by dlsidhe View Post
    And OF COURSE this has to be for bards too. The most fun I ever had in NWN was being a draconic disciple bard.
    Yeah their short a PrE anyways and I'm sure the devs wouldn't mind getting 2 PrEs done for the price of one

    Quote Originally Posted by dlsidhe View Post
    On toggling the dragon-breath vorpal, I agree that should be an option, but there's another side to it - the DD has more flexibility. To use the chains o' flame scenario, in that case you change strategies. A red DD could intimidate and tank, and then cast non-fire spells without the penalties of a fire savant. They wouldn't be as potent as a savant, but it's more spellcasting flexibility and greater survivability at the cost of power.
    That's true but most people would find it to be a PITA which would make the prestige unpopular...unpopular trees don't get bugs fixed, etc. also a fair chunk of people who take DD would be primarily melee so switching to primarily offensive spellcasting is like a fighter with a past life wizard...it works but not really.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  10. #30
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    Default Bored with this whole idea

    Just my personal opinion and I realize what I like is not what everyone else wants...that being said...

    Dragon Disciple sounds like Draconic Incarnation Lite. It's a boring ED that few people use and a prestige based on the same thing sounds boring.

    Think about a few things:

    Armor class in DDO is pointless unless you can get it super high, which you won't be able to do as a Sorc.

    PRR could be interesting but it needs to be pretty massive because again a Sorc doesn't have many sources of it.

    Any SLA or spell attack with a low DC (like most of these that currently exist) is pretty pointless. The DC on these things is usually so low no one uses them.

    Any elemental bonuses are duplicative and I can already get in other trees.

    Stat increases are ok - CON and CHA are always welcome but +2 Str is not going to matter.

    Breath weapon - love the idea but have it DI already.

    If the only way to make this Prestige useful is to multi lass than I don't like it. It sounds/feels like it will be a gimped Sorc and a gimped fighter.

    Now, it probably sounds better than AotS though. That prestige sounds like it would be a useless amount of AC plus some minor resistances plus scorching ray out of your eyeballs and a wordlessly low DC fear effect.

    Now what would be interesting to me is if they could dovetail. DD into DI so that the DD tree magnifies the DI and vice versa. For instance, if you the breath weapon in DD, the DI version is enhanced, double damage or something. If you could build DD to make DI viable, I would be for it.

    However, what I think would be even more interesting would be if made the Prestige Blood Magus instead. It could create a different feel all together and bring something newish to the game. More elemental specialties are boring so a totally different take would be blood magus.

    Just my thoughts. I see the interest in pulling in melee, but why not go SPellsword or something like that? It sounds more of a wizard thing though, but I don't care too mcu about the lore, etc.

  11. #31
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durten2 View Post
    Dragon Disciple sounds like Draconic Incarnation Lite. It's a boring ED that few people use and a prestige based on the same thing sounds boring.
    Archmage is Magister lite

    Henshin or Shintao is GMoF lite

    Kensai is Legendary Dreadnought lite

    Divine Avenger is Exalted Angel lite

    Sacred Defender is Unyielding Sentinel lite

    There's no point comparing prestige classes with epic destinies the epic destinies are ALWAYS going to be designed to work with existing prestige classes and their always going to be more powerful because their EPIC

    Also no DI is not a boring ED imo it's the best Arcane ED.

    Quote Originally Posted by Durten2 View Post
    Armor class in DDO is pointless unless you can get it super high, which you won't be able to do as a Sorc.
    My Wizard with 89AC begs to differ


    Quote Originally Posted by Durten2 View Post
    PRR could be interesting but it needs to be pretty massive because again a Sorc doesn't have many sources of it.
    The great thing about PRR is even 1 point in it makes a difference and saying a Sorc doesn't have many Sources of it is stupid...that the reason for adding it into DD


    Quote Originally Posted by Durten2 View Post
    Any SLA or spell attack with a low DC (like most of these that currently exist) is pretty pointless. The DC on these things is usually so low no one uses them.
    Uhhhh SLAs use your personal DC they don't have a set DC


    Quote Originally Posted by Durten2 View Post
    Any elemental bonuses are duplicative and I can already get in other trees.
    Caster classes NEED spellpower its added out of necessity and because it suits the lore


    Quote Originally Posted by Durten2 View Post
    Stat increases are ok - CON and CHA are always welcome but +2 Str is not going to matter.
    Than don't choose str for the multi-selector and having the bonus str from dragon from won't hurt you in anyway and personally I'll take all the extra str I can get (assuming single-class sorc) +1 damage is still +1 damage when going from 40-42 Str.

    Quote Originally Posted by Durten2 View Post
    Breath weapon - love the idea but have it DI already.
    No reason it can't stack


    Quote Originally Posted by Durten2 View Post
    If the only way to make this Prestige useful is to multi lass than I don't like it. It sounds/feels like it will be a gimped Sorc and a gimped fighter.
    WHo says it needs to be multi-classed...the only way to get the dragon form capstone is by staying single-classed


    Quote Originally Posted by Durten2 View Post
    Now, it probably sounds better than AotS though. That prestige sounds like it would be a useless amount of AC plus some minor resistances plus scorching ray out of your eyeballs and a wordlessly low DC fear effect.
    This I can agree with its fairly underwheleming


    Quote Originally Posted by Durten2 View Post
    Now what would be interesting to me is if they could dovetail. DD into DI so that the DD tree magnifies the DI and vice versa. For instance, if you the breath weapon in DD, the DI version is enhanced, double damage or something.
    Thats pretty much my assumption...since as mentioned above the Epic destinies are just extensions of existing prestiges I don't see why DD and DI can't work together


    Quote Originally Posted by Durten2 View Post
    However, what I think would be even more interesting would be if made the Prestige Blood Magus instead. It could create a different feel all together and bring something newish to the game. More elemental specialties are boring so a totally different take would be blood magus.
    I actually don't like bloat magus it mostly just gross...unless you want to copy Dragon Age's Blood Mage which was actually pretty cool


    Quote Originally Posted by Durten2 View Post
    Just my thoughts. I see the interest in pulling in melee, but why not go Spellsword or something like that? It sounds more of a wizard thing though
    Yeah I'm definitely in support of Wizards getting Swiftblade or Spellsinger...possibly with Eldritch Knight showing up as an ED

    Quote Originally Posted by Durten2 View Post
    but I don't care too mcu about the lore, etc.
    Than honestly your playing the wrong game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  12. #32
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    Default Hmmmm

    I can see you like to argue and I don't really care to about this, but just a couple of points.

    You think DI is the best arcane ED....as much as I wish it was since pew pewing with MM isn't really interesting to me, I cannot agree with you nor does 98% of the players. Maybe your definition of best is something other than most DPS though.

    Your 89 AC is not interesting on EE.

    1 point of PRR could be worth 0.5% to 0.1% so you are right it does technically mean something and I will take all the PRR I can get but I'd rather gain other skills and abilities that leverage my powers and not just make me 3% more durable.

    As far as STR goes, it seems like you haven't run Storhorns Elite. Attacking the red names will be so much easier with the the extra +1 damage from my bite attack? Reminds me of the bunny in Monty Python with big sharp teeth...or the death knight with no arms and legs, " come back here, I'll bite your legs off!" The tiny damage you are going to get from a bite attack while being in such close proximity is going to get you killed.

    And finally, you think I am playing the wrong game because I don't care about the lore...really? Really? DDO is so true to the lore ? Ok. Lore is the strong suit? Hmm. Ok.

    In any case, I'll post some ideas for blood magus later. Something tells me they already know what they are doing so it won't matter but ill do it anyway.

  13. #33
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durten2 View Post
    You think DI is the best arcane ED....as much as I wish it was since pew pewing with MM isn't really interesting to me, I cannot agree with you nor does 98% of the players. Maybe your definition of best is something other than most DPS though.
    I'm assuming your talking about Shiradi which is a Primal ED...I only said DI is the best Arcane ED imo

    Quote Originally Posted by Durten2 View Post
    Your 89 AC is not interesting on EE.
    This is a discussion about Prestige classes EPic is irrlevant nothing in Heroci should be balanced for epic content...the epic levels and destinies are designed to uplift old abilities,etc. into Epic. Hence why the EDs are extensions of existing Prestige classes,

    Quote Originally Posted by Durten2 View Post
    1 point of PRR could be worth 0.5% to 0.1% so you are right it does technically mean something and I will take all the PRR I can get but I'd rather gain other skills and abilities that leverage my powers and not just make me 3% more durable.
    Yes 1 PRR isn't much but 5, 10,20, 40 than you start noticing a big difference layer that in with caster defensive buffs and you've got one tough cookie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Durten2 View Post
    As far as STR goes, it seems like you haven't run Storhorns Elite. Attacking the red names will be so much easier with the the extra +1 damage from my bite attack? Reminds me of the bunny in Monty Python with big sharp teeth...or the death knight with no arms and legs, " come back here, I'll bite your legs off!" The tiny damage you are going to get from a bite attack while being in such close proximity is going to get you killed.
    I have no idea what your talking about...but I'll try if +1 damage why don't you jump in a Barb thread and tell them not to bother putting any points in str because its just not worth it for the +1 damage....DDO and DnD is a game of incremental growth saying IDK about +2 this is stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by Durten2 View Post
    And finally, you think I am playing the wrong game because I don't care about the lore...really? Really? DDO is so true to the lore ? Ok. Lore is the strong suit? Hmm. Ok.
    Actually if you actually read the npc dialog and quest text there's some epic storylines and quite a few of the prestige classes are bursting with flavour.

    Quote Originally Posted by Durten2 View Post
    In any case, I'll post some ideas for blood magus later. Something tells me they already know what they are doing so it won't matter but ill do it anyway.
    Feel free to I'd love to see other peoples ideas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  14. #34
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    Dragon disciple appeals to me a lot. The game is after all based on dungeons & dragons. The idea of a gish character that can mix might and magic is also appealing as well. This prestige would be great for someone who likes to mix it up. The write ups are a pretty good translation of the pnp character design to ddo. I will try to think on the abilities a little more when I have time,

  15. #35
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    Isn't this pretty much already in DDO in the form of the Draconic Incarnation ED?

    I'm betting on Acolyte of the Skin, since they've had that in their sights for a while now.
    Pretty much dead on with both points. Acolyte was supposed to be their idea of a summoner class back when savants first came out. No telling what it will turn into now.

    But the thing about Acolyte, let alone PMs is that both allow for more melee focused casters. *shrugs*

    I mean heck, look at occult slayer for barbarians. Nothing like pnp at all. heck, it works out more like pnp kensai.

  16. #36
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alceste007 View Post
    Dragon disciple appeals to me a lot. The game is after all based on dungeons & dragons. The idea of a gish character that can mix might and magic is also appealing as well. This prestige would be great for someone who likes to mix it up. The write ups are a pretty good translation of the pnp character design to ddo. I will try to think on the abilities a little more when I have time,
    I'll look forward to your take on it
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  17. #37
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    totally agree, and this should be bard/sorc tree nothing to do with wizard

  18. #38
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    I'd forgotten this thread.


    Looks like I was right about it not being Acolyte, at least.
    53461

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    I'd forgotten this thread.


    Looks like I was right about it not being Acolyte, at least.
    and I am happy its not DD so its all good

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  20. #40
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    and I am happy its not DD so its all good
    EK is just as good lore-wise as DD to me some I'm good...now if only the tree didn't suck so bad :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

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