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  1. #21
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    ...... and yet here we are.


    I'll fade back into the background noise now - but I'll just leave this here.
    *** deleting another copy ***

    *epic facepalm*
    Last edited by cdbd3rd; 08-08-2013 at 10:39 AM.
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  2. #22
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    ...... and yet here we are.


    I'll fade back into the background noise now - but I'll just leave this here.

    *** deleting copies... ***

    .... Cripes. Talk about fubar!!! How many times did this post replicate?!?!?

    .
    Last edited by cdbd3rd; 08-08-2013 at 10:39 AM.
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  3. #23
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    ***deleting first failed post attempt.
    Last edited by cdbd3rd; 08-08-2013 at 10:36 AM. Reason: fricking forums
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  4. #24
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    *** deleting 2nd failed post attempt. Sheesh.
    Last edited by cdbd3rd; 08-08-2013 at 10:37 AM.
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  5. #25
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    ...... and yet here we are.


    I'll fade back into the background noise now - but I'll just leave this here.

    Gah. /3rd attempt to reply to thread. (...then all 3 [or more!] pop in.. Love it.)

    Heyas, Mem.

    Still good to see ya drop by now & then, tho.


    .
    Last edited by cdbd3rd; 08-08-2013 at 10:40 AM.
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  6. #26
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    So does anyone NOT think this game has been in a state of decay for 3 years?
    I'd say slightly under 2 u11 was sept 2011

  7. #27
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdbd3rd View Post
    Gah. /3rd attempt to reply to thread.

    Heyas, Mem.

    Still good to see ya drop by now & then, tho.


    .
    What's the term for 5x post?

    Quintiple Post?

  8. #28
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    What's the term for 5x post?

    Quintiple Post?

    Oh, there's a term for it - but I can't afford any visits from the Frax Monster....

    I did see my neighbor look over from mowing his grass. He musta heard me over his mower.
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  9. #29
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdbd3rd View Post
    Gah. /3rd attempt to reply to thread. (...then all 3 [or more!] pop in.. Love it.)
    Yeah... what I said about the forum swap.

    Good to be drop'n by! I don't think I'll ever be as active as I used to be - but I do wander in every now and again.



    (actual results may vary)
    Last edited by Memnir; 08-08-2013 at 10:46 AM.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    So does anyone NOT think this game has been in a state of decay for 3 years?
    I think it was in a state of decay from what I've heard before the free to play model went into effect. No new content, just stagnantly sitting there for ages. New content indicates growth and change, general indicators of health. I think the big warning that the end is finally coming is when the content stop flowing. Companies don't invest resources in something when they feel they don't have a reasonable expectation of return.
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  11. #31
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    I am going to disagree a little with the current consensus.

    While the market place tent was an amazing time, and one that I don't think could be repeated I won't make it the high water mark. It was the single most exciting / entertaining event surely but day in and day out the game was still lacking "stuff to do".

    For me the high water mark was prior to MOTU's release. Power creep was moving in fairly quickly at that point surely but in all honesty the game was probably best at that point.

    TR'ing meant something and a completionist was a feat worthy of note.
    End game was reasonably robust with several raids to run for good and relevant loot.
    A lack of BB meant there were plenty of vets willing to still show the newbs the ropes.
    Toon building was fun, especially when trying different / new builds.

    Since MOTU we have seen a dramatic decrease in end game relevance, and builds really don't mean much when every point in a ED is giving you power roughly equal (and often exceeding) a feat. The BB has penalized many vets for taking on pugs and newbs so as a whole it's crippled a lot of the social aspect of the game. Not that it's not still there it's just greatly decreased.

    With the new level cap coming and NO raids being added to endgame combined with the ROFLstomp romp the game has become I just see these issues becoming more and more prominent.

    The game has certainly seemed to be circling the drain in the last year or so and picking up speed at that.

    [Edit] As pointed out the BB came before MOTU, that said the points still stand. MOTU amplified or accellerated perhaps the BB issues.
    Last edited by SiliconScout; 08-13-2013 at 03:55 PM.


  12. #32
    Community Member Nahiz's Avatar
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    I started playing around Update 9 and I fell in love with the game immediately. I think the game slowly started declining since Update 13, and strongly after Update 15: bugs and poor design took over. MotU was a decent try (Epic destinies, new wilderness areas and some quests were really nice) to keep the game afloat, but bugs came aplenty. New and easy to get epic loot was a blessing for me, since I dont have much time to play and I strongly dislike farming (the only epic item I´ve ever made in this 3 years is a HP GS, but I´m good with playing EH and no EE). But I understand it broke the game and the effort of many vets. I really dislike update 16 and after quests (design, atmosphere, story line, monsters variety, you name it).

    So for me best time was around update 11, though I think the game got to its peak around Chronoscope/Vale.

    Glad to see Mnemir, Leslie (hey Leslie, my fav character is a bard I built thanks to you!) and some other great vets still around.

  13. #33
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    Can you be more specific?
    Epic Destinies were the first sign to me that the existence of the DDO store was influencing game design rather than the store being supplemental to game design, so I suppose whatever update came directly before MotU would be the high point of DDO for me.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    For me the high water mark was prior to MOTU's release. Power creep was moving in fairly quickly at that point surely but in all honesty the game was probably best at that point.
    <snip>
    End game was reasonably robust with several raids to run for good and relevant loot.
    I'll agree with that. The shinies of EDs distracted me from it at first, but MotU seriously hurt the viability of any kind of robust end game like we had when the level cap was 20. Having 10 or so relevant raids, and lots of fun and relevant Epic quests made for plenty of variety and lots of room for gradual improvement of your gear. And TRing was there for a change of pace, rather than being the only thing worth bothering with.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    A lack of BB meant there were plenty of vets willing to still show the newbs the ropes.
    <snip>
    The BB has penalized many vets for taking on pugs and newbs so as a whole it's crippled a lot of the social aspect of the game.
    Bravery Bonus was introduced in Update 11, not with MotU, so it had already been in full swing a while during the time period you're talking about.

    And if you think BB made TRing vets less willing to take newbs along...well, my experience is the exact opposite. The Bravery bonuses are so big, any -10% (-10% OF BASE, NOT OF TOTAL) is a much, much smaller. I remember the old days of pre-BB TRing. TR groups didn't PUG, because that -10% hurt a LOT more than post-BB. TRing was painful as heck. Farming a very few high-XP quests wasn't just somewhat more efficient, the way it is now, but was VASTLY more efficient. It took BB to make levelling a TR without the mind-numbing farming at least somewhat efficient.

  15. #35
    Community Member Anarkius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post

    [...snip...]

    I'll fade back into the background noise now - but I'll just leave this here.
    Nice Mem!
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  16. #36
    Community Member relenttless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    I am going to disagree a little with the current consensus.



    For me the high water mark was prior to MOTU's release. Power creep was moving in fairly quickly at that point surely but in all honesty the game was probably best at that point.

    TR'ing meant something and a completionist was a feat worthy of note.
    End game was reasonably robust with several raids to run for good and relevant loot.
    A lack of BB meant there were plenty of vets willing to still show the newbs the ropes.
    Toon building was fun, especially when trying different / new builds.

    Since MOTU we have seen a dramatic decrease in end game relevance, and builds really don't mean much when every point in a ED is giving you power roughly equal (and often exceeding) a feat. The BB has penalized many vets for taking on pugs and newbs so as a whole it's crippled a lot of the social aspect of the game. Not that it's not still there it's just greatly decreased.

    With the new level cap coming and NO raids being added to endgame combined with the ROFLstomp romp the game has become I just see these issues becoming more and more prominent.

    The game has certainly seemed to be circling the drain in the last year or so and picking up speed at that.
    yep, well said

    At that time there was a healthy raid culture, now it's virtually non-existant.
    80% of the raids in the game are no longer relevant, prior to motu 80% were relevant.

    Lots of raids mean lots of player inter-action, not a domination of endless 2 man tr trains, Raids are where you meet people, recruit good folks into your guild, prove yourself to both friends and strangers and acquire rare loot.

    Now there are no raids worth talking about apart from FoT and Citw, and the latter is generally viewed as a chore.

    When was the last time you ran a ToD? or a Hox? or a Vod?.......
    I can't remember either, why should I remember? Motu rendered 99% of the loot worthless, so why run it?

    Getting a Tod set was an acheivement, running an epic Lob meant you knew your toon could cut it.

    If you have a healthy raid culture then you have a healthy game, everything else follows and falls into place, now, its sadly lacking.
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  17. #37
    Community Member cnynridr2's Avatar
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    Default Peak time

    For me it seemed that the most players was when the game had been out for about 6 months and lev cap was still 10. There were double the servers and always easy to fill groups. Our guild was about 250-300 active accounts and wasn't the biggest by far.

    I would say the second biggest player base jump was when F2P came out.

    Sarlona still seems to be busy when I am on, usually evenings peak time.
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  18. #38
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    I started around the time the Arti class was introduced (U11)...and I would say te peak was before my time. Everything I have seen since I started has been a decline. It's still a fun game to play, but it's becoming LESS fun each update.

  19. #39
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    When GH was released was the high point. Lots of content/time compared to latter releases. Abbot coming next as major content really highlighted the downward trend (small amount of content with a raid that made a lot of the player base angry at the time and for years to come).

    After F2P the game was blighted by overactive systems development making random new systems and then only at best half finishing them before moving onto the next thing and what appeared to be a non-existent QA department. While good things came in this period they always came with a lot of questionable to downright infuriating stuff.
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  20. #40
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    I came with the F2P crowd, so my perspective of DDO is limited compared to many in the forums. I'd have to say Update 6 was the high point from what I've experienced. We were getting a working update every other month. Red Fens was probably the last adventure pack that had nothing but quality quests, although the wilderness area doesn't support the slayer ratio very well and underwater fighting was a letdown. (Arguably, Update 13 had get quality quests but Web of Chaos was f2p.) Since Red Fens, each update seemed to be released with more bugs and/or unfinished work done to it. There's been some good and bad since then, but Red Fens for me was the last update that didn't serve large portions of disappointment.

    With that said, I can point to the two spots that I personally found hurt the game more than any other.

    First, Update 11 was probably the most stark turning point in the game when it came to quick cash. From the horribly overpriced Challanges to the shady way of introducing Artificers and the addition of the Bravery Bonus, this was the Update that left alot of bad taste in my mouth.

    Second, MOTU probably hurt the game more than anything else, but not in the way I think alot of people think. MOTU moved the level cap from 20 to 25. This effectively killed the little bit of grouping that was still going on in the game and it outright killed raids. Yes, the gear had some effect on raids, but the near inability to get a group together for an at-level raid is directly related to the cap increase. And what kills me most about this is the solution to prevent a level increase was introduced with MOTU. The game could stay at level 20 and Epics could get NHE versions by just introducing Epic Destinies. Players would still be able to group up together if this was done and the end game would be the expansion of power with EDs and the Epic quests in higher difficulty settings. Plus I think it would have kept a bit of a lid on some of the power creep that's been cranking up in the game for the past year.

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