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  1. #81
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Dec 2009


    @Encair ya the blackdragon armor looks fine, I haven't really updated my gear layout much since EGH since the wife and I have been more of a TR mode. Neither of us are keen on the two latest raids so figured we do the gear thing once we decided to look into that when we stopped TRing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    Insulting the development team is not allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jendrak
    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  2. #82
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006


    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    If you have 34 charisma at 17, then must have started with 18 and means no OC. 18+6levels+12 gear+2 pally charisma+2 ship+4 tome = 44 ( +17 dmg mod ). +4 Claw, 9 Improved PA, 6 weapon, 8 DM = 44 dmg mod.
    Str based with mid 50s ( 56 ? ) would have 50 dmg mod.
    This shows part of the problem in making the calculations. See the parts colored dark orange. They do not exist in the new enhancement pass.

    Then take note that you work out the CHA but not the STR. Ignore for the moment bladeforged since that piece isn't important -- it is just that the paladin I ported to Lamannia was bladeforged. Race can be whatever you choose and should be the same for both DPS calculations.

    So, CHA with 18 start + 6 levels + 12 gear + 4 enhancement + 2 ship + 4 tome = 46 CHA.

    The STR is 16 start (unless CON is dumped) + 6 levels + 12 gear + 4 enhancement + 2 ship + 4 tome + 2 rage = 46 STR.

    Damage mod for either is the same (46-10)/2=18. On top of this you now add in additional damage modifiers when they apply. In your example that is 4 Claw + 6 weapon + 9 PA = 19. Total damage modifier for both CHA and STR is the same 18+19=37.

    Under the new DM the STR build benefits from whatever CHA modifier the character has. The presumed CHA of the STR character is 16 + 4 tome + 12 gear = 32. That makes the extra STR (32-10)/2=11 and the extra STR damage 11/2=5 (since fractions don't apply to STR bonuses).

    Final damage modifiers for CHA are +37 damage and for STR are +42 damage.

    Now do your critical and non-critical calculations.

    Keep in mind that even this is simplified since it does not account for epic destiny decisions. Also note that it doesn't take into account racial choices. Human or half-elf might net additional STR or CHA, drow might start with more CHA, half-orc might yield more STR, etc.

    I will give you this much, OC is the key feat for making the STR choice come out consistently ahead. So play with the assumptions just a bit. Ask yourself what happens if the CHA build leaves itself space to qualify for OC. That is 18 starting STR with +5 tome or 19 starting STR with +4 tome or any combination of starting STR plus levels plus tome that yields 23.

    Make the same build assumptions for both (32, 34, 36 point build; willingness to sacrifice CON to meet the CHA/STR thresholds; etc.).

  3. #83
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006


    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    So, don't ignore CHA on your paladin any longer. My bladeforged at L17 is running with 34 CHA. It isn't such a jump from there to 42.

    OTOH, he isn't STR based or using STR dependent weapons.

    Now, what I'd hoped would happen with DM is that it would add the CHA bonus to hit and damage (not to STR points) so that every paladin would benefit from it. But, that isn't what is happening so life goes on.
    You could go with the Purple Dragon Knight Race which is close enhancement-wise to Human (+heal amp, etc) and use Charisma to-hit & to-damage on all shortswords, longswords, bastard swords and greatswords (but not Khopesh, Falchion, etc). I tried to make a Charisma build work and it is difficult as you do give up things like DM since it doesn't appear to buff to-hit/damage but rather strength... If DM was a generic to-hit/damage that would be more flexible.

  4. #84
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by Nodoze View Post
    I tried to make a Charisma build work and it is difficult as you do give up things like DM since it doesn't appear to buff to-hit/damage but rather strength... If DM was a generic to-hit/damage that would be more flexible.
    It figures Turbine gives us a semi-viable CHA-based melee option, only to nerf one of the few DPS buffs a non-STR-based melee build has.

  5. #85

  6. #86
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    GMT + 2


    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    Was just a simple math to show how charisma based with Falcattas is a stupid idea and can't compare really to drow khops, that's all man.

  7. #87
    Community Member 96th_Malice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Pulling my arrows out of your chest


    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Second picture should be a blank sheet of paper.
    Well played sir !
    " Elize Ryd - Officer @ Band of Gypsys "

    " Trapped in my skin - See the nexus in my dreams - But will you bury me within? "

    Amaranthe - The NeXuS

  8. #88
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010


    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    120 is insane, with ED's that going to end up around 200 if desired.

    Here's the thing, my FvS "Light and Alignment" Guards build is hitting 70-ish and not finding much reason to try and squeeze more out (that's around 38% damage mitigation) at 140-160 is the point where you're getting around half damage, but those numbers require so much of an investment in PrE/Class choice I just don't think they're worth the effort. In fact at 70's I hardly notice when I change ED and drop to 49... Character is almost too easy to play, and most of the challenge for me is trying to use cleaves, lay waste and momentum swing (my twists) in a good pattern so I don't have to watch cooldowns, while also keeping the rest of the party and myself in heals...

    At 70-ish with Bladeforged and FvS DR decent (60's ish) AC and 700-800 HP and 145-ish fort I've played everything in the game including some EE GH and found the character to be as hardy as any character I've ever played.

    It's also more than a match DPS wise for any S&B pali I've played (I have had three, not counting my TWF Smite build Pali's), without considering that I've got DOT's and BB's a shoulder laser, the heal spell and mass cures for the party that no Pali can bring to the table. I guess my point is, a 17FvS 3 Pali (or 2 Pali 1 fighter which he is right now) seems to be "the better Pali" I've talked about in past Pali threads.

    looks like people are only going to take more than 2 levels of paladin to get the 5% heal amp from past lives now .

    yay 200ppr and it might take 3 minutes to kill a single EE trash mob..........

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