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  1. #1
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Default Acolyte of the Skin suggestions

    I think that the Acolyte of the Skin tree for the Sorcerer class needs, at the very least, 3 things:
    1) 1 point of universal spellpower per point spent in the tree.
    2) Enhancements that let the user increase spellpower in one or more energy types. Not just big four, but also force/untyped, repair and negative energy.
    3) HP-increasing enhancements.

    However, to be true to the name "Acolyte of the Skin", it would be nice if there were some other enhancements that:
    1) Stat-increase enhancements that let the player select from any of the six stats, or just Charisma and Constitution, at the very least.
    2) A "Shroud" such as the ones that PM wizards get, although the AoS ones would make one more fiendish instead of undead. Maybe a a "Shroud of Fury" would give one melee bonuses at the cost of spellcasting ability, while a "Shroud of Seduction" would give spellcasting bonuses (enchantment and illusion DCs?) at the cost of durability. Maybe a capstone "Shroud of Domination" would give bonuses to constitution and charisma, while at the same time giving the user's spells and physical attacks a chance to proc disease, poison and/or a healing curse. All Shrouds would come with a risk, as well: Being a fiend, the character will take more damage from spells that do more damage to outsiders.
    3) Increases to poison resistance, energy resistances and maybe fortitude saves.

    And while we're at it, why not borrow a few things from Warlocks? They're a bit similar to Acolytes, after all:
    1) Regeneration ability (but better than the item propery, I hope.)
    2) Cold Iron DR
    3) A "Hellfire" toggle (Hellfire Warlocks!) that gives an increase to spellpower or some extra damage on-hit at the cost of some HP while active. Or maybe an infernal spellpower boost that causes constitution damage to the user when activated, but has technically unlimited uses.

  2. #2
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    This is a copy-paste from the other thread in general. How I would love AotS:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    That's why, what Sorcerers' need is a more defensive focused PrE but with some offensive that coupled with the Sorcerers spells will make a decent build.

    Old System Enhancements
    Acolyte of the Skin I:

    You replace your own skin with a demon's one. You gain IMMUNITY to poision, +2 Con, 10 Fire Resistance, +2 Dodge and 2 Cold/Electric/Acid/Sonic Resistance. You gain +1 Max caster level and caster level to your fire spells. You summon the essence of a demon and are now able to cast Demonic rays Spell as SLA.

    Demonic rays Spell: You emanate two rays from your eyes on one target. Each of them deals 1d3 per caster level, up to a maximum 15d3 at caster level 15. Cooldown 6 seconds.


    Acolyte of the Skin II:

    An acolyte’s skin and its wearer have grown more comfortable together, as if they had never been separate. You gain IMMUNITY to Disease, +2 Con (+4 total), 10 Fire resistance (+20 total), another +2 Dodge and 2 Cold/Electric/Acid/Sonic Resistance (+4 total). You gain +1 Max caster level and caster level to your fire spells. You are now able to cast Demonic Roar as SLA.

    Demonic Roar: You roar like you never had in your whole life. You deal a 6d6 untyped damage and your opponents become Shaken and Helpless for 3 seconds. This affects everything, including Undeads and Constructs. DC: 20 + Half character level + Cha Modifier + Fear based effects enhancements (the one in Draconic for example). AoE same as Haste and Daunting Roar. Cooldown 10 seconds.


    Acolyte of the Skin III:

    An acolyte's skin and its wearer are now the same entity. You gain Immunity to Blindness, +2 Con (+6 total), 10 Fire resistance (+30 total), +2 Dodge (+6 Dodge), +2 Cold/Electric/Acid/Sonic Resistance. You gain +1 Max caster level and caster level to your fire spells. Only the final death can separate you two. You also gain 25 DR/Cold Iron . Your affinity with Fire is now at the maximum level. You also gain 25 Fire Spell power. You are now able to cast Demonic Fireball as Sla.

    Demonic Fireball: You create a powerful ball of demoniac fire with your mouth. On impact, the explosion deals 1d3+1 fire damage per caster level, up to a maximum of 25d3+25 at Caster Level 25. This spell is too powerful for you and you need some time to heal your wounds. You suffer a -2 Con penalty lasting 6 seconds. AoE same as Delayed Blast Fireball. Cooldown 8 seconds.


    To summarize, you will have:

    30 Fire Resistance,
    6 Dodge,
    6 Element resistance
    3 MCL/CL to Fire spells
    Immunity to Blindess/Poision/Disease
    +6 Con
    25 DR/Cold Iron
    +25 Fire Spell power.

    And the 3 SLAs that I've just made up.

    As you can see. this PrE is more defensive than offensive so most of these bonuses are written to achieve that goal. This PrE is for more survavibility hence why the Stun SLAs at tier two. However, being a demon, I feel also that we wouldn't be a real demon without a powerful offensive SLA. Being kinda powerful, the cooldown at tier 3 is 8 seconds, making it not really spammable. Can be increased to 10 seconds but then it would have the same cooldown as the stun.

    The Tier 1 SLA is basically a Lightning bolt of fire but single target, so worse than it in the end.
    The Tier 3 is an enhanced Delayed Blast Fireball, capped at caster level 30. You also suffer a -2 Con when you cast it. Being powerful has some consequences.


    I didn't include a summon at tier 3 because Turbine just can't make them useful. It would just be a waste of time and a waste of PrE.
    NEW System Enhancements

    Core abilities:

    T1: Immunity to poison, +2 con,
    T2: +1 MCL/CL
    T3: Immunity to disease, +2 con,
    T4: +1 MCL/CL
    T5: DEMON SKIN TOGGLE: Immunity to blindness, +2 con, +1 MCL/CL, +25 Fire Spell power, 25 DR/Cold Iron


    Tier 1:

    Demonic rays Spell SLA
    Fire resistance, 3 rank, 2 AP each: 10/20/30 Fire resistance
    Elemental Resistance, 3 rank, 1 AP each: 2/4/6 Cold, Electric, Acid, Sonic Resistance
    Spell Crit chance I: +2% to Fire spells
    Electrocution for Fire spells.


    Tier 2:

    -
    Efficient Metamagic
    Pierce Dragon Resistance (Pre Req Elemental Resistance) 3 ranks, 2 AP each: You bypass 5/15/25 Fire resistance
    Spell crit chance II: +2% to Fire Spells
    Cha +2


    Tier 3:

    -
    Efficient Metamagic
    Spell pen 3 ranks, 1 ap each: +1/2/3 Spell pen
    Spell crit chance III: +2% to Fire Spells
    Cha +2


    Tier 4:

    Demonic Roar SLA: DC 15 + Half Character level + Cha mod + Fear based effect enhancements (like the one in the Draconic Incarnation)
    Efficient Metamagic
    Dodge I: +2% dodge
    Spell Crit chance: +2% to Fire spells
    Cha +2


    Tier 5:

    Demonic Fireball SLA
    -
    Dodge II: 2 Ranks, 2 AP each: +2+4% dodge
    -
    Fearless demon, 2 ranks, 2 AP each: +1/+2 DC to Fear based Spells (our T5 SLA)
    Last edited by Wizza; 08-07-2013 at 05:59 PM.
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  3. #3
    Hero
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    Og Farwil, I'd be all over that!

  4. #4
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    The problem with your AoS tree, Wizza, is that it's too powerful. Lots of nice stuff, but TOO much stuff. DR/25? Not gonna happen. Also, why does it have to be all fire? Not enough versatility in your tree. It would be better just to take fire savant.
    Last edited by HatsuharuZ; 08-07-2013 at 02:46 PM.

  5. #5
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    The problem with your AoS tree, Wizza, is that it's too powerful. Lots of nice stuff, but TOO much stuff. DR/25? Not gonna happen. Also, why does it have to be all fire? Not enough versatility in your tree. It would be better just to take fire savant.
    As I answered to these questions in my other thread, DR 25/Cold Iron is actually pretty small in EEs. You could make it a 10 DR passive + a clicky for another 15 but that wouldn't change much. DR 25 is nothing when mobs hit you for 250. Or you can make it 30 PRR.

    It does not HAVE TO be all fire. My idea is to make different Demonic Skin toggles with different bonuses (altough this may require, like savants, to have 2-3 different trees [based on how many Skins we would have] with a few selected options different because it is a Core Tier 5).

    E.g. You can have this Demonic skin toggles or a Celestial Skin toggle.

    In the Celestial tree, you are not specialized in one Spellpower but instead you gain Universal Spell power at Core tier 5, altough a bigger benefit for Positive one.

    The Celestial's SLAs might be all-out difensive but unique.

    Tier 1 SLA: You and your allies gain 5% HP and 15 PRR. AoE like Haste
    Tier 4 SLA. Heal SLA on a 8 seconds cooldown
    Tier 5 SLA: You grant your allies a 10% damage reduction from all incoming melee or ranged sources. Lasts 10min, AoE like Haste.

    The Core one could be something like this:

    Tier 1: Immunity to Daze, +2 PRR to Party
    Tier 2: +2 PRR to Party
    Tier 3: +2 PRR to Party
    Tier 4: +2 PRR to Party
    Tier 5: Immunity to Light spells, +2 PRR to Party, +30 Universal Spell power and 50 Positive Spellpower.

    This is just a ROUGH example of what I'd like to see in the Celestial tree. Didn't think it very deeply so don't be too harsh on this.

    Or you could make a Poison Toggle although I don't know if it would work in DDO.


    PS: I would never take Fire savant. It just sucks too much (SLAs and Tier 3 perks are weak)
    Last edited by Wizza; 08-07-2013 at 06:00 PM.
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  6. #6
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    I like your celestial idea!


    ...but an Acolyte of the Skin is someone who gains fiendish power by replacing his skin with that of a fiend. I don't think that would work with a good-aligned celestial. XD

  7. #7
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    I like your celestial idea!


    ...but an Acolyte of the Skin is someone who gains fiendish power by replacing his skin with that of a fiend. I don't think that would work with a good-aligned celestial. XD
    I actually looked up on some website and there was some kind of Celestial Skin name. At the moment, I don't really care if it makes sense or not honestly I liked the idea.

    Thou I like the Demonic one better (more thoughts went into that planning), I could even see me dropping Air Savant for that Demonic skin.
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  8. #8
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    As I answered to these questions in my other thread, DR 25/Cold Iron is actually pretty small in EEs.
    The PrEs should NEVER be balanced around Epics they are for heroic content only the EDs are for Epics which is why stuff that stacks like PRR would be better than DR

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    PS: I would never take Fire savant. It just sucks too much (SLAs and Tier 3 perks are weak)
    I agree, fire does suck. I have a personal preference for Air Savant but only because lightning magic is the most visual appealing to me. The best Element is probably Ice with secondary in either Air or Earth. To be fair though the most visually obvious Savant is an Earth Savant so that ones just cool looking I don't think I'd ever take it on a normal spellcasting Sorc though. So in Short Water > Air (although looks cooler imo) > Earth > Fire.

    Oh and of course I still stand by AotS being an underpowered prestige...it's not your fault you've actually got some pretty cool ideas but the Prestige class in PnP is heavily weighted as a roleplaying class which can't translate to DDO so w/o some drastic changes to the prestige it will never work (ie. giving them DR 25) and it just comes of as a lame Savant. Something like Dragon Disciple would fit perfectly in DDO (Eldritch Knight could also be used but non-gish Sorcs would never use it whereas DD is useful to both types and IMO would work better as an Arcane ED)

    Don't worry I won't discuss DD or EK here as I don't want to derail your thread HZ also I'll refrain from commenting on Wizza's AotS again so we can focus on your thread (which is funny because he got upset when I posted an alternative prestige in his thread but has no problem doing the same in yours)

    Speaking of which I like the focus on Force etc. as opposed to trying to compete with fire savant and bringing in a few warlock like abilities could really help flesh the PrE out a couple other prestiges/classes we could draw from could be Blackguard, Blood Mage and Demonoligist

    A couple ideas for AotS abilities:

    - Convert HP into SP

    - Demonic Slave - Similar to Druid Companion/Arty Construct gets all its own AP...probably an hezrou or other big but low ranked demon

    - Spell Resistance

    - Aura of Fear or Despair
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 08-09-2013 at 11:01 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  9. #9
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Don't worry I won't discuss DD or EK here as I don't want to derail your thread HZ also I'll refrain from commenting on Wizza's AotS again so we can focus on your thread (which is funny because he got upset when I posted an alternative prestige in his thread but has no problem doing the same in yours)

    Speaking of which I like the focus on Force etc. as opposed to trying to compete with fire savant and bringing in a few warlock like abilities could really help flesh the PrE out a couple other prestiges/classes we could draw from could be Blackguard, Blood Mage and Demonoligist

    A couple ideas for AotS abilities:

    - Convert HP into MP

    - Demonic Slave - Similar to Druid Companion/Arty Construct gets all its own AP...probably an imp or either lesser creature have it grow with level.

    - Spell Resistance

    - Aura of Fear or Despair

    -
    Eh, I am familiar with both DD and EK, and discussing other alternative suggestions doesn't bother me. Also, it was my intention for AotS to fill a niche that the Savant trees do not: A 'generalist' spellcaster who can use all elements without penalty. Aura of Fear/Despair? Spell Resistance? That just makes it better

    I do have a problem with converting HP to MP, though. That would pretty much make SP an unlimited resource as long as you have potions or someone to heal you. I know this exists in the game on an item, but the item in question has limited uses per rest.

  10. #10
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    I do have a problem with converting HP to MP, though. That would pretty much make SP an unlimited resource as long as you have potions or someone to heal you. I know this exists in the game on an item, but the item in question has limited uses per rest.
    Hmmm..true might be a bit unbalancing...maybe have a cooldown or something?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  11. #11
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Sounds reasonable.

    I'd also like to see something like the Demonic Shield proc that one finds on Bracers of the Demon's Consort and Cavalry Plate. Temp HP is useful when it can proc indefinitely.

  12. #12
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    Sounds reasonable.

    I'd also like to see something like the Demonic Shield proc that one finds on Bracers of the Demon's Consort and Cavalry Plate. Temp HP is useful when it can proc indefinitely.
    That would be thematic
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  13. #13
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    I would like to see AotS focus on things other than elemental damage. Seeing bonuses to summon monster spells (those are now your cousins that you are summoning), and maybe a combat pet like a dretch or an imp, similar in concept to how the PMs are getting their skeletal knight. I would also like to see Enchantment bonuses, as some devils are all about manipulation and sabotage. Finally seeing some melee bonuses, and letting this be the melee caster tree for sorcs would be cool.

    Thats my two cents.
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